Sox close to signing Penny

[BoSox21]

Theo would like Buchholz to start the season by ripping up Triple A and then translating that success to the majors. But his 2008 did nothing to suggest that the Sox can count on him right now. Hence the Penny signing...

[Dojji]

I think the one thing that the Penny signing most signifies is that the FO really, really, REALLY liked what they saw out of Masterson in the bullpen and want to keep him there for now. Otherwise there's no particular reason you wouldn't go into the season with him as your 5th starter or at least make a trial of it and see where it goes from there

[BSN07]

I think the one thing that the Penny signing most signifies is that the FO really' date=' really, REALLY liked what they saw out of Masterson in the bullpen and want to keep him there for now. Otherwise there's no particular reason you wouldn't go into the season with him as your 5th starter or at least make a trial of it and see where it goes from there[/quote']

 

Masterson's lack of a third pitch hurts him as a SP. In the BP his 2 plus pitches becomes ever more so valuable and useful.

 

Maybe the Sox see him as the heir to Papelbon as the closer. Although I think Bard has a great shot if he can cut down on his Walks.

[jacksonianmarch]

Masterson's lack of a third pitch hurts him as a SP. In the BP his 2 plus pitches becomes ever more so valuable and useful.

 

I think this was more the case than the sox REALLY REALLY liking him in the pen. As a matter of fact, he wasnt that solid when needed in the playoffs or down the stretch. Once teams get accustomed to his delivery, he is gonna have some issues. And moving him to the pen is a way to minimize those issues.

 

For one, he has a nice, sinking 2 seamer that he uses as his primary FB. He ranges it from 87-94mph and gets good bite depending on how hard he throws it. His slider is a nice pitch as well. 2 pitches I would call plus. And for a rook, I'd consider his command to be pretty good. That being said, his sinker slider combo works very, very well vs righties. But when you eliminate the fear of the slider from the hitter, then he becomes very hittable, and Masterson knows this. Hence, lefties are and will always be a problem until he develops that change. He likely wont get much chance to develop the change in the pen. But if he is used in relief, in the right situations, he wont be hurt and he should be dominant. I just dont think he'd be the right choice to put into the 7th with Tex at the dish.

[jacksonianmarch]

Masterson's lack of a third pitch hurts him as a SP. In the BP his 2 plus pitches becomes ever more so valuable and useful.

 

Maybe the Sox see him as the heir to Papelbon as the closer. Although I think Bard has a great shot if he can cut down on his Walks.

 

If Bard gets hit s*** straight, he is more of a closer type than Masterson IMO. I think Masterson's durability and stuff will eventually slot in best as a Scot Shields type. Can start if needed. Can go 3 innings in a game if needed. Or can setup if needed.

[BSN07]

If Bard gets hit s*** straight' date=' he is more of a closer type than Masterson IMO. I think Masterson's durability and stuff will eventually slot in best as a Scot Shields type. Can start if needed. Can go 3 innings in a game if needed. Or can setup if needed.[/quote']

 

I think that would be the perfect role for Masterson.

 

I like Bard's 100MPH stuff in the 9th. But like you said, he needs some work still. But is coming along nicely.

[Redguitar985]

So it sounds like if everything works out right, Masterson, Okajima, and Ramon Ramirez could add up to be a pretty fearsome bullpen next season. If everything works out right.

[Dojji]

And there's this fellow named Papelbon who's pretty good too. Delcarmen's a lot better than his reputation as well.

 

Our bullpen is really stacked right now.

 

Papelbon is as good as they come as a closer.

Oki is a wickedly tricky lefty with a really nasty specialty pitch who fools good hitters consistently.

Ramram was probably the Royals' best reliever not named Joakim Soria last year and is a workhorse and getting him for Coco Crisp was a steal.

Manny Delcarmen is hideously underrated here and also is a very consistent and capable RP who's a match for Ramram.

Masterson has a nasty sinker-slider combination and as he refines his command he bids well to be better than he already is.

Lopez has been much more consistently reliable than he ever gets credit for here and has put up good end of season numbers for each of the previous 3 years while actually increasing his fastball velocity and playing very well as a situational lefty last year.

 

And the last slot in the bullpen has a number of possible challengers who represent quality options for the long reliever -- starting with Hunter Jones and our Rule V pick Miguel Gonzalez.

[BoSox21]

sign Lowe and make Wakefield the long reliever

[Redguitar985]

And there's this fellow named Papelbon who's pretty good too. Delcarmen's a lot better than his reputation as well.

 

Our bullpen is really stacked right now.

 

Papelbon is as good as they come as a closer.

Oki is a wickedly tricky lefty with a really nasty specialty pitch who fools good hitters consistently.

Ramram was probably the Royals' best reliever not named Joakim Soria last year and is a workhorse and getting him for Coco Crisp was a steal.

Manny Delcarmen is hideously underrated here and also is a very consistent and capable RP who's a match for Ramram.

Masterson has a nasty sinker-slider combination and as he refines his command he bids well to be better than he already is.

Lopez has been much more consistently reliable than he ever gets credit for here and has put up good end of season numbers for each of the previous 3 years while actually increasing his fastball velocity and playing very well as a situational lefty last year.

 

And the last slot in the bullpen has a number of possible challengers who represent quality options for the long reliever -- starting with Hunter Jones and our Rule V pick Miguel Gonzalez.

 

We could see Bard filling in that last spot by the end of the year too.

[Dojji]

I doubt it w/Bard, if only because I want to see him spend a full year in the minors walking no more than 3.5 hitters per 9 innings before I want him to sniff the big leagues even on a callup.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bard is the kind of guy who is dominant but making a slow improvement into becoming a potential major leaguer. He can blow away the minor league guys on stuff alone. But if he comes up to the bigs without fine tuning his location, he wont last. I agree with your sentiment Dojji. He's always one pitch away from a mental meltdown and losing the zone. Baby steps with guys like him.

[BSN07]

Bard is the kind of guy who is dominant but making a slow improvement into becoming a potential major leaguer. He can blow away the minor league guys on stuff alone. But if he comes up to the bigs without fine tuning his location' date=' he wont last. I agree with your sentiment Dojji. He's always one pitch away from a mental meltdown and losing the zone. Baby steps with guys like him.[/quote']

 

I don't see Bard making any kind of ML impact until next season, most likely a late season call up. 2010 might be the year the Sox find out what they have with Bard.

[Dipre]

Bard is the kind of guy who is dominant but making a slow improvement into becoming a potential major leaguer. He can blow away the minor league guys on stuff alone. But if he comes up to the bigs without fine tuning his location' date=' he wont last. I agree with your sentiment Dojji. He's always one pitch away from a mental meltdown and losing the zone. Baby steps with guys like him.[/quote']

 

Indeed. Craig Hansen says hello.

[pinstripezac]

I don't see Bard making any kind of ML impact until next season' date=' most likely a late season call up. 2010 might be the year the Sox find out what they have with Bard.[/quote']

 

is it just me

 

or doesn't the thought of the sox droping cash for bard

 

make you wonder about the wake to retire rumors having more merit

 

 

 

 

2 reasons to be a sox fan

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

is it just me

 

or doesn't the thought of the sox droping cash for bard

 

make you wonder about the wake to retire rumors having more merit

 

 

 

 

2 reasons to be a sox fan

wat

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

According to Heyman, Derek Lowe rejected the Mets' three year $36MM offer because he hopes to sign a deal worth $16MM per season.

The Phillies and Braves are the Mets' biggest competitors for Lowe.

The Red Sox and a mystery team are also involved.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/lowe-rejected-o.html

[Cocos Disciples]

lol, mystery team

[mvp 78]

Lowe isn't worth 16mil. He wasn't worth resigning in '05, he's not worth it now.

[example1]

I agree mvp78. He might be a better bet for, say, 11m a year, but I don't trust that he's going to be able to contribute the 6.8 wins that he did in LA last year. I fear he may be closer to the 2.1 that he offered in 2004. He wants "I'll get you to the playoffs" money, but his contribution wouldnt be a sure thing.

 

That said, I think he could help this team, for the right price. He seemed like a headcase when he left.

[JimEdHOF2009]

CC/Burnett/Wang/Joba/?

 

vs.

 

Beckett/Lester/Dice-K/Penny/?

 

pretty close......I would then give an edge to Boston in the bullpen and lineup. The Yankees are not as good as the $400 mill they spent would lead you to believe.

 

Jeter .306/.369/.408 (will be 35 in June and his OPS took a horrific hit finishing at .771).

Cano .271/.305/.410 (Lugo-esque numbers and atrcocious in the field).

*Jeter and Cano are probably the worst defensive SS/2B combom in the bigs...no range up the middle.

Posada .268/.364/.411 (sure he was hurt, but father time has taken his toll, he is a shadow of his former self).

Gardener .582 OPS in 127 AB's...who cares how fast he is, he is an abyssmal hitter.

AROD-STUD

TEX- STUD

Matsui 35 and career low .795 OPS in 2008

Damon excellent leadoff hitter, will be terrible in LF for Yankees though..his range has diminshed and everyone knows about his sissy-bitch arm.

Nady Had a career year; but in 228 AB's for the Yankees, he compiled a .794 OPS... Kinda pedestrian for a RF'er.

 

The Red Sox will be just fine.

[jacksonianmarch]

you would give the edge in bullpen and lineup to the sox. I see. Of course you would. Even though the yankees pen gets a full yr of Marte and was the second best pen in the game last yr while having one of the highest workloads. I see. Figures.

 

In terms of lineup, either could be better IMO and picking a winner right now isnt wise. If you included the caveat of everyone healthy then once again, it would be close. The crux of the argument is who has more health in their lineup and will the slumps/superstar performers from 08 continue that into 09 or will they regress to their norms.

[jacksonianmarch]

CC/Burnett/Wang/Joba/?

 

vs.

 

Beckett/Lester/Dice-K/Penny/?

 

pretty close......I would then give an edge to Boston in the bullpen and lineup. The Yankees are not as good as the $400 mill they spent would lead you to believe.

 

Jeter .306/.369/.408 (will be 35 in June and his OPS took a horrific hit finishing at .771).

Cano .271/.305/.410 (Lugo-esque numbers and atrcocious in the field).

*Jeter and Cano are probably the worst defensive SS/2B combom in the bigs...no range up the middle.

Posada .268/.364/.411 (sure he was hurt, but father time has taken his toll, he is a shadow of his former self).

Gardener .582 OPS in 127 AB's...who cares how fast he is, he is an abyssmal hitter.

AROD-STUD

TEX- STUD

Matsui 35 and career low .795 OPS in 2008

Damon excellent leadoff hitter, will be terrible in LF for Yankees though..his range has diminshed and everyone knows about his sissy-bitch arm.

Nady Had a career year; but in 228 AB's for the Yankees, he compiled a .794 OPS... Kinda pedestrian for a RF'er.

 

The Red Sox will be just fine.

 

 

Jim, Cano has excellent range for a 2b, his problem is that he sometimes doesnt seem interested and f***s up routine plays.

 

Jeteris the opposite. No range, but handles the routine well.

 

Damon's range has diminished? His range is worse than Bay's? You're smoking crack. Damon's range is still plus for a LFer. His arm sucks, I will concede that.

 

Nady has improved 3 straight yr, so I dont think a sept swoon and a half season of mediocrity should sway you into thinking that is what to expect.

 

Cano had a career low season and his numbers after april were way better than Lugo's.

 

Matsui and Posada's stats were skewed by injuries. Saying Posada is a shadow of his former self when his last healthy season (2007) was a career offensive yr is a joke.

 

Gardner played part time and had a rough start to his career. He is a pretty good singles hitter who will walk. That being said, I dont think he's gonna get the bulk of the time.

 

You forgot about Swisher, who had a career worst yr last yr but maintained the patience and power in the face of horrible luck (BABIP of .249)

 

Dont delude yourself into thinking our lineup isnt awesome if everyone stays healthy. And I wont do the same with your lineup. That being said, all things equal and everyone fully healthy, it will be hard to beat the lineup (offensively) that we put up. No holes if Swisher is in LF and Damon in CF. And if Gardner comes around, we'll be in even better shape. The sox still have SS, C, and CF to deal with even if fully healthy. Thats before you think of Papi looking pedestrian without his bat speed in the playoffs and Lowell just status post hip surgery. One thing is for certain, it will be a fun ride

[Dojji]

Jim' date=' Cano has excellent range for a 2b, his problem is that he sometimes doesnt seem interested and f***s up routine plays. [/quote']

 

Fair. Boston definitely passed NY at second base this year and looks poised to do it again, though.

 

Jeteris the opposite. No range, but handles the routine well.

 

Jeter will be where he is as long as he can hit. His early slump in 2008 though gives good indication that that might not be a pure given anymore.

Damon's range has diminished? His range is worse than Bay's? You're smoking crack. Damon's range is still plus for a LFer. His arm sucks, I will concede that.

 

 

Damon's range has diminished, yes. He has good range for a LFer, but he was signed to be a CFer and he's looked incredibly bad every time they've put him in his "real" position. His defensive numbers in LF haven't been much to write home about either and his offensive production is pedestrian for an LF (although he still makes a nice leadoff type).

 

You know all you need to know about Damon's defense when they left a gaping offensive cavity in CF rather than put him back there even when that would have meant more at bats for Matsui instead of Gardner or Cabrera.

 

Nady has improved 3 straight yr, so I dont think a sept swoon and a half season of mediocrity should sway you into thinking that is what to expect.

 

Except that he showed his big improvements in the NL Central and hit terra firma when he moved to the American League East, a legitimate concern for a hitter who isn't an incredible RF.

Cano had a career low season and his numbers after april were way better than Lugo's.

 

But nowhere near Pedroia's.

Matsui and Posada's stats were skewed by injuries. Saying Posada is a shadow of his former self when his last healthy season (2007) was a career offensive yr is a joke.

 

THe problem is that in both cases we're talking about injuries to a knee and a shoulder that will impact performance even after you recover from them. We're also talking about older players.

 

A young guy with an otherwise clean bill of health takes a freak injury sure you write that off, but Matsui's spent significant time on the DL each of the last 3 years and a shoulder injury is a huge concern for any catcher, especially an aging one.

Gardner played part time and had a rough start to his career. He is a pretty good singles hitter who will walk. That being said, I dont think he's gonna get the bulk of the time.

 

I think he'll surprise some people. Gardner seems to me to be a guy who might be able to fight his way into the lineup, especially with the Yankees very weak in CF.

 

You forgot about Swisher, who had a career worst yr last yr but maintained the patience and power in the face of horrible luck (BABIP of .249)

I'm not sold on Swisher as a full time CF, especially not with defensive questionmarks in LF and RF as well. He makes a great OF/1B type off the bench but his range will disappoint you if you expect CF out of him.

 

Dont delude yourself into thinking our lineup isnt awesome if everyone stays healthy.

 

Dude, take off the pinstriped glasses for a second and admit just how big of an IF that is.

 

And I wont do the same with your lineup.

 

Right, because we clearly have multiple players who might not qualify to play at their own positions defensively next year and we face the specter of age related decline at 3 different key positions in the lineup and defense -- just like the Yankees...

 

That being said, all things equal and everyone fully healthy, it will be hard to beat the lineup (offensively) that we put up. No holes if Swisher is in LF and Damon in CF.

 

Because Damon has looked wonderful in CF each of the last 2 years, right? Dude, when they sent Cabrera down, Damon remained planted in left field -- even though that took Matsui out of the lineup.

 

Damon. Is. Cooked. As. A. Center. Fielder. How strong a signal needs to be transmitted here to penetrate the pinfoil hat?

 

 

And if Gardner comes around, we'll be in even better shape

.

 

Better than bad, yes, but not really good.

 

The sox still have SS, C, and CF to deal with even if fully healthy.

 

No, the Sox have C to deal with if fully healthy. They are committed to Ellsbury and they are committed to one of Lowrie or Lugo. Furthermore we have 3 potentially decent options at C and outproduced the Yankees by 60 runs last year with a bleeding, gaping offensive wound at C so it's not exactly like we have to do a lot to improve there.

 

Thats before you think of Papi looking pedestrian without his bat speed in the playoffs and Lowell just status post hip surgery.

 

You're really going to play the "Sox are injury risks" card with all the aging wounded warriors in that lineup of yours?

 

One thing is for certain, it will be a fun ride

 

Can't wait.

[JimEdHOF2009]

you would give the edge in bullpen and lineup to the sox. I see. Of course you would. Even though the yankees pen gets a full yr of Marte and was the second best pen in the game last yr while having one of the highest workloads. I see. Figures.

 

Yes, I will definitely say that a bullpen of Papelbon, Masterson, Okajima, Ramirez, MDC, and Lopez is better than Rivera, Marte, and whomever the Yankees choose to fill out the remaining slots..

 

That bullpen may be the best in baseball.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Thanks for the new sig Jax!

[VaritekC]

this deal needs to get done

[jacksonianmarch]

Fair. Boston definitely passed NY at second base this year and looks poised to do it again, though.

 

 

 

Jeter will be where he is as long as he can hit. His early slump in 2008 though gives good indication that that might not be a pure given anymore.

 

 

 

Damon's range has diminished, yes. He has good range for a LFer, but he was signed to be a CFer and he's looked incredibly bad every time they've put him in his "real" position. His defensive numbers in LF haven't been much to write home about either and his offensive production is pedestrian for an LF (although he still makes a nice leadoff type).

 

You know all you need to know about Damon's defense when they left a gaping offensive cavity in CF rather than put him back there even when that would have meant more at bats for Matsui instead of Gardner or Cabrera.

 

Except that he showed his big improvements in the NL Central and hit terra firma when he moved to the American League East, a legitimate concern for a hitter who isn't an incredible RF.

 

 

But nowhere near Pedroia's.

 

 

THe problem is that in both cases we're talking about injuries to a knee and a shoulder that will impact performance even after you recover from them. We're also talking about older players.

 

A young guy with an otherwise clean bill of health takes a freak injury sure you write that off, but Matsui's spent significant time on the DL each of the last 3 years and a shoulder injury is a huge concern for any catcher, especially an aging one.

 

 

I think he'll surprise some people. Gardner seems to me to be a guy who might be able to fight his way into the lineup, especially with the Yankees very weak in CF.

 

 

I'm not sold on Swisher as a full time CF, especially not with defensive questionmarks in LF and RF as well. He makes a great OF/1B type off the bench but his range will disappoint you if you expect CF out of him.

 

 

 

Dude, take off the pinstriped glasses for a second and admit just how big of an IF that is.

 

 

 

Right, because we clearly have multiple players who might not qualify to play at their own positions defensively next year and we face the specter of age related decline at 3 different key positions in the lineup and defense -- just like the Yankees...

 

 

 

Because Damon has looked wonderful in CF each of the last 2 years, right? Dude, when they sent Cabrera down, Damon remained planted in left field -- even though that took Matsui out of the lineup.

 

Damon. Is. Cooked. As. A. Center. Fielder. How strong a signal needs to be transmitted here to penetrate the pinfoil hat?

 

 

.

 

Better than bad, yes, but not really good.

 

 

 

No, the Sox have C to deal with if fully healthy. They are committed to Ellsbury and they are committed to one of Lowrie or Lugo. Furthermore we have 3 potentially decent options at C and outproduced the Yankees by 60 runs last year with a bleeding, gaping offensive wound at C so it's not exactly like we have to do a lot to improve there.

 

 

 

You're really going to play the "Sox are injury risks" card with all the aging wounded warriors in that lineup of yours?

 

 

 

Can't wait.

 

Reading is fundamental. I said that our lineup, provided health, would have no holes offensively with Damon in CF and Swisher in LF. That being said, I dont think that will be our lineup on opening day and health for both of our teams is a serious concern. If both teams are totally healthy, though, I still think you gotta give the yanks the edge offensively after the signing of tex.