How will Red Sox finish the offseason?

[BSN07]

Is it possible that the Sox resources aren't what everyone thinks? Myabe there projected ticket sales aren't good. Or whatever.

 

 

I understand where your coming from, I wanted to see the team make a splash, and I'm not happy they got outbid by the Yanks.

 

But there's nothing I can do about it. if I bitch about the FO, it won't get them fired or change anything. And the fact is, if the Sox make money and are relatively competitive, this FO will be around for awhile.

 

 

Don't expect the Sox to spend alot of money, then when they don't there is less disappointment LOL

[TheKilo]

There cannot be any cries of poverty from this FO in this offseason, they will fall on deaf ears.

 

Fenway will be sold out, Sox Appeal will be on my TV. They are the second most profitable franchise in the majors, and they have decided through their negotiating tactics not to spend money, whether it be on guys like Tex for hundreds of millions, or a guy like Meyer for a million.

[a700hitter]

First you say this:

And you continue to cry and show your Yankees inferiority complex.

I responded with this:

No' date=' you and others are whining that we can't compete with the Yankees financially. You are whining about inferiority. I have always believed that the Sox have the resources to compete with the Yankees for talent.[/quote']

 

Then you respond with this:

And this is your biggest problem. The Yankees are in another stratosphere when it comes to spending capability.

 

And until you realize this, well you know what they say about that river in Egypt.

 

Which is it? Do I have a Yankee inferiority complex or am I delusional in thinking that the Red Sox can compete financially with the Yankees for talent? It is not an effective technique to dismiss opinions that are contrary to yours by using baseless crap like this. The best way to argue an issue is to discuss the facts of the issue rather than taking wild stabs at the motivation of the opposing poster, which weakens and invalidates your argument.

[BSN07]

You have a complex stemming from the Yanks dominating the Sox for the better part of your personal Sox fanhood life span.

 

 

You are delusional to think the Sox have the spending capablity of the Yankees.

[a700hitter]

You have a complex stemming from the Yanks dominating the Sox for the better part of your personal Sox fanhood life span.

 

 

You are delusional to think the Sox have the spending capablity of the Yankees.

So, I have an inferiority complex with regard to my team causing me to delusionally think that my team has equal financial strength? Interesting and ridiculous. First of all, I never have said that the Red Sox have the same spending capability as the Yankees. I said that the Red Sox have sufficient financial resources to compete with the Yankees for talent. If it comes to a throw down with the Yankees, the Yankees can and will outbid the Red Sox. There isn't too much difference between the top two or three guys at each position. The Yankees will not sign or buy them all. The Sox should be able to stack their team no matter what the Yankees do, because the Yankees will field only 9 players. There's enough other talent to build a really strong team. If the Red Sox FO got duped into thinking the Yanks had no interest in Tex, shame on them. They get paid to figure this stuff out. They left themselves with no apparent contingency plan. This has nothing to do with whether I have an inferiority complex or am delusional. The facts are the Sox FO failed with regard to their #1 off season priority. The reasons why don't matter. This is so frustrating to you that you resort to personal attacks to attempt to counter the established facts.

 

The FO is now left with only 4 major league starters, one being Wakefield. They have no 4th outfielder, no catcher, and a combination of Lugo/Lowrie at SS. They have a lot of work to do, because as presently constituted, they are not in a position to compete with the Yankees. Now, maybe I am being delusional, but that is my opinion.

[Teddyballgame10]

If it comes to a throw down with the Yankees, the Yankees can and will outbid the Red Sox. There isn't too much difference between the top two or three guys at each position. The Yankees will not sign or buy them all. The Sox should be able to stack their team no matter what the Yankees do, because the Yankees will field only 9 players. There's enough other talent to build a really strong team. If the Red Sox FO got duped into thinking the Yanks had no interest in Tex, shame on them. They get paid to figure this stuff out. They left themselves with no apparent contingency plan. This has nothing to do with whether I have an inferiority complex or am delusional. The facts are the Sox FO failed with regard to their #1 off season priority. The reasons why don't matter. This is so frustrating to you that you resort to personal attacks to attempt to counter the established facts.

 

The FO is now left with only 4 major league starters, one being Wakefield. They have no 4th outfielder, no catcher, and a combination of Lugo/Lowrie at SS. They have a lot of work to do, because as presently constituted, they are not in a position to compete with the Yankees. Now, maybe I am being delusional, but that is my opinion.

 

This is a very well thought out post. Who knows why they didn't sign Tex, could be shame on the FO or other reasons unknown to us. Whatever they failed to sign their #1 priority and had all their eggs in one basket. It is frustrating but I trust Theo will do SOMETHING.

 

We have 4 major league starters at best. I've said it before but I am extremely nervous about Dice-K and the WBC, I dunno how hes going to be able to perform all year long after that. As for Wake I dunno how much more he has left so that is worrisome as well. I disagree with the SS position, I think Lowrie is going to be a good player so they are fine there. We all know C is a big hole right now.

 

If Lowell and Papi dont bounce back this year its going to be tough to compete. A number of things are working against us this year and I hope Theo has one more up his sleeve.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.

[riverside sluggers]

Last couple of offseasons have left little to get excited about

[BoSox21]

Last couple of offseasons have left little to get excited about

 

It would have been fine if they were in any other division cause as they are right now, they're a good team but the fact that Tampa stands to get even better and the Yankees are drastically better means the ante has been upped in the East and the Sox are foolishly remaining stagnant

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2008_12_25_Free_agency_not_worth_it_for_Red_Sox:_Pulling_out_of_Mark-et/

 

Good to see before I go to bed, from Sean MacAdams

 

Indications are that the front office is leaning toward swearing off big-priced free agents for good while emphasizing on scouting and player development. So if no extension is made for Bay, who is our left fielder? Bubba Bell?

[BoSox21]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2008_12_25_Free_agency_not_worth_it_for_Red_Sox:_Pulling_out_of_Mark-et/

 

Good to see before I go to bed, from Sean MacAdams

 

Indications are that the front office is leaning toward swearing off big-priced free agents for good while emphasizing on scouting and player development. So if no extension is made for Bay, who is our left fielder? Bubba Bell?

 

thats all well and good but theyd damn well better figure out a way to start developing positional players, the only one of their draft picks theyve developed into a good MLB player is Pedroia with the jury still out on Lowrie and Ellsbury

[BSN07]

So, I have an inferiority complex with regard to my team causing me to delusionally think that my team has equal financial strength? Interesting and ridiculous. First of all, I never have said that the Red Sox have the same spending capability as the Yankees. I said that the Red Sox have sufficient financial resources to compete with the Yankees for talent. If it comes to a throw down with the Yankees, the Yankees can and will outbid the Red Sox. There isn't too much difference between the top two or three guys at each position. The Yankees will not sign or buy them all. The Sox should be able to stack their team no matter what the Yankees do, because the Yankees will field only 9 players. There's enough other talent to build a really strong team. If the Red Sox FO got duped into thinking the Yanks had no interest in Tex, shame on them. They get paid to figure this stuff out. They left themselves with no apparent contingency plan. This has nothing to do with whether I have an inferiority complex or am delusional. The facts are the Sox FO failed with regard to their #1 off season priority. The reasons why don't matter. This is so frustrating to you that you resort to personal attacks to attempt to counter the established facts.

 

The FO is now left with only 4 major league starters, one being Wakefield. They have no 4th outfielder, no catcher, and a combination of Lugo/Lowrie at SS. They have a lot of work to do, because as presently constituted, they are not in a position to compete with the Yankees. Now, maybe I am being delusional, but that is my opinion.

 

A700 please never take anything I say personally. It was just my way of coloring up our conversation. Not to make personal attacks on you. When I post here, I assume my reputation preceeds me. That being a fairly lade back poster who likes to have fun and occasionally poke in the ribs. Please in the future if I write anything like that, chalk it up to color commentary and not an insult.

 

 

I know where your coming from. I'm not thrilled about the teams current roster really either. But given the teams current run I'm whiling to go with what they have right now. Knowing that Theo at some point this offseason address the C,4th OF,SP question marks.

Maybe Theo gets creative and moves some pieces around. Maybe he goes with what he has. We will just have to see.

 

Tex signing with NYY sucks balls. Anyone else I would have viewed it like last years Santana seal, "atleast he is not on the Yankees". But this year it happened. I guess what at the core of what I was trying to get at, is it does us no good to get all worked up about it. It won't change the outcome.

 

Merry Christmas everyone, I hope everyone's Holiday season is wonderful:thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

A700 please never take anything I say personally. It was just my way of coloring up our conversation. Not to make personal attacks on you. When I post here, I assume my reputation preceeds me. That being a fairly lade back poster who likes to have fun and occasionally poke in the ribs. Please in the future if I write anything like that, chalk it up to color commentary and not an insult.

 

 

I know where your coming from. I'm not thrilled about the teams current roster really either. But given the teams current run I'm whiling to go with what they have right now. Knowing that Theo at some point this offseason address the C,4th OF,SP question marks.

Maybe Theo gets creative and moves some pieces around. Maybe he goes with what he has. We will just have to see.

 

Tex signing with NYY sucks balls. Anyone else I would have viewed it like last years Santana seal, "atleast he is not on the Yankees". But this year it happened. I guess what at the core of what I was trying to get at, is it does us no good to get all worked up about it. It won't change the outcome.

 

Merry Christmas everyone, I hope everyone's Holiday season is wonderful:thumbsup:

No harm done. I was just poking some fun back at you. I am not worked up about the situation. I just think the FOE should be judged on the facts, not the spin or excuses, which they plant in the press to cover their asses. With two World Championships under their belts, it's hard to say that they are doing a bad job. Other than Dice K in 2006, I can't think of a free agent signing that they have made In the last 5 years that has worthwhile. Drew is a great ballplayer,when he plays, which is not often. They certainly overpaid for him. Lug was a bust. Their record in the FA market is not good. Their record with trades is not much better. The Schilling Thanksgiving trade was a blockbuster and one-sided for the Sox. I still like the Beckett trade if he bounces back this season, but many others think the Marlins got the better of that trade. The Crisp trade never lived up to expectations. Their moves in the last 4-5 seasons have been not very noteworthy. Once the Yankees backed away from the Santana deal, the Sox also pulled their offer. They had the Twins right where they wanted them. Maybe they could've gotten Santana for the "Ellsbury" package. They would have won back to back titles with Santana last season and they would have been the team to beat for the next couple of years. They backed out because they no longer had to block the Yankees. That was a bad decision. Santana is better than CC or Burnett or just about anyone else. You get a guy like that when you've got the chance, especially for prospects. The FO knows how to make money as well as any other FO, but their player moves have not been that great.

[Dojji]

thats all well and good but theyd damn well better figure out a way to start developing positional players' date=' the only one of their draft picks theyve developed into a good MLB player is Pedroia with the jury still out on Lowrie and Ellsbury[/quote']

 

Youkilis says hello. He was a Duquette pick but he was definitely developed mostly by the Epstein regime.

[Dojji]

Last couple of offseasons have left little to get excited about

 

So sorry if your offseason experience hasn't been entertaining enough for you.

 

You all heard me predict a quiet offseason. Quite honestly there isn't that much to do. The only true opportunity to upgrade this team is catcher and the offseason situation this year makes it difficult to contemplate how to do that without prohibitive costs in dollars and/or talent.

 

If you believe that George Kottaras can be an adequate MLB catcher and that one of Buchholz, Bowden and Masterson should settle into that last rotation spot there's no reason at all to go to the FA market or even make a blockbuster trade. We just don't line up that well with anyone anyhow this year.

 

Considering that we made the ALCS a 7 game battle and should have won except for key injuries to Beckett, Lowell and Ortiz, I see little reason to believe we won't be an elite team next year barring the kind of disaster we can't prepare for right now. And in our weakest positions we have solid redundancy thanks to Youks and Lowrie. We don't even need to spice up the bench THAT much. Van Every, Bailey, Lugo and Brown are already a step up from Kotsay, Cora, Casey and Cash.

 

So short of the kind of insane fan-panting and unrealistic trade scenarios that boards like this exist for in the offseason there really isn't that much to get excited about at all, you're right. Frankly since there's so much room to go backward and limited opportunity for roster surgery to turn in a positive result I'm not worried about it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dojji, I think it is easy to take that approach after you lose out on someone. But the obvious goal of the offseason was getting Tex. The sox have a good rotation. Adding Ramirez to Oki and Paps should make the pen solid as well. But the sox obviously have some serious concerns about Papi and Lowell or else they wouldnt have been willing to go to 21 mil a yr for 8 yrs on Tex. That should tell you something. I do expect the sox to have a top 10 lineup next yr and I do expect that they will be in this thing until the end. But considering that they havent upgraded and the Rays are getting more experienced, I do think the gap is still there. And I think it is pretty obvious that the Yankees got much better. That being said, will the yankees stay healthy? Will the sox stay healthy or get their injured players back from disappointing yrs? Will the Rays suffer a hangover? Those will all be answered this upcoming yr. But on paper, the sox were right behind the rays coming into the offseason. They didnt improve and I think the yankees soared past everyone. Right now, the sox are the 3rd best team in the division. And that gets you left home in October.

[riverside sluggers]

Dojji' date=' I think it is easy to take that approach after you lose out on someone. But the obvious goal of the offseason was getting Tex. The sox have a good rotation. Adding Ramirez to Oki and Paps should make the pen solid as well. [b']But the sox obviously have some serious concerns about Papi and Lowell or else they wouldnt have been willing to go to 21 mil a yr for 8 yrs on Tex. That should tell you something[/b]. I do expect the sox to have a top 10 lineup next yr and I do expect that they will be in this thing until the end. But considering that they havent upgraded and the Rays are getting more experienced, I do think the gap is still there. And I think it is pretty obvious that the Yankees got much better. That being said, will the yankees stay healthy? Will the sox stay healthy or get their injured players back from disappointing yrs? Will the Rays suffer a hangover? Those will all be answered this upcoming yr. But on paper, the sox were right behind the rays coming into the offseason. They didnt improve and I think the yankees soared past everyone. Right now, the sox are the 3rd best team in the division. And that gets you left home in October.

 

Ive noted this before, Papi came right out and said that this lineup needs a legitimate power threat beside him. He said this even though Youk had a breakout season, and Bay is almost a sure bet to have a 30+ HR/100+ RBI season

 

Bay and Youkilis will be free agents within the next 2 seasons. Yes we have Lars Anderson but he has to prove he can be a big power threat in the majors. Getting Tex wouldve given them a stable mate in the heart of the order for the better part of an 8 year deal

 

Yes this team came within one game of the world series... but they were helped getting to the playoffs with the Yankees having such a poor season all around

[Dojji]

Dojji' date=' I think it is easy to take that approach after you lose out on someone. [/quote']

 

You are aware that I damaged my reputation severely here in strenuous arguments involving my not wanting this "someone." I'm perhaps the only Sox fan here that can take that position right now without the slightest stain of hypocrisy.

[BSN07]

You are aware that I damaged my reputation severely here in strenuous arguments involving my not wanting this "someone." I'm perhaps the only Sox fan here that can take that position right now without the slightest stain of hypocrisy.

 

Jacko, you gotta let him go. He fought us tooth and nail.

[jacksonianmarch]

point taken. Regardless, I think the sox were making a good move long term for the org by going after tex. Another thing that the tex signing will do is make Youk more difficult to sign. If Youks puts up another .950OPS season while playing GG D, then he might ask for 23 mil a yr

[Dojji]

If he does, then pay him. Top dollar for a quality 3B is not a stupid move.

[BSN07]

point taken. Regardless' date=' I think the sox were making a good move long term for the org by going after tex. Another thing that the tex signing will do is make Youk more difficult to sign. If Youks puts up another .950OPS season while playing GG D, then he might ask for 23 mil a yr[/quote']

 

Youk at 23M per. Bye bye no thanks.

[Dojji]

If he's hitting 25-30 HR's and providing quality 3B defense i think you have to seriously think about paying Youkilis that much. He's not that far behind Teixeira as a hitter and plays (or is capable of playing) a much more premium position.

 

Besides, his brand of patient hitting is a type that ages well so as long as he can stick at 3B defensively he should provide good value to the ballclub.

[BSN07]

Dojji your argument has merit. If Youk can put up those numbers, then he might very well get an offer that high. But depending on the length of the contract might be the downfall. When he reaches FA he will be 30-31 I think. If he wants 6+ years, i'd be weary of such a deal.

[Dojji]

I think even then you have to do it. Have you looked at our farm system? 3B is a black hole until you get as far south as Almanzar, and he's extremely raw. I don't see too many competent 3B becoming available through FA or trade either. Atkins or Beltre are about it.

[Dipre]

And of course, Youk has the advantage that if his defense were to falter in the later stages of his career, he can be moved to 1b where he would still provide elite defense.

[Dojji]

And by the time he aged to that point Papi would be long gone and if it really came to that (or if Lars is playing like I think he will by then) Youk could hit from the DH spot for the last years of his contract.

[BSN07]

I like the idea of Youk. But 23M just seems crazy to me. Although with the way contracts are going, it's completely feesable.

[Dojji]

It depends on whether what we saw from Youk this last season offensively is what he is or not. If it is, then I could definitely see a huge contract in Youk's future. Considering the way he clawed his way out of obscurity to take a place as one of the game's elite corner infielders I'd say he's earned it.

 

A second consecutive elite season in 2009 would just about seal the deal.

[a700hitter]

I like the idea of Youk. But 23M just seems crazy to me. Although with the way contracts are going' date=' it's completely feesable.[/quote']Which is why I thought the Sox should have traded Youk after signing Teixeira. Youk would have had tremendous trade value, and he will have a huge price tag in two years.

[example1]

If he's hitting 25-30 HR's and providing quality 3B defense i think you have to seriously think about paying Youkilis that much. He's not that far behind Teixeira as a hitter and plays (or is capable of playing) a much more premium position.

 

Besides, his brand of patient hitting is a type that ages well so as long as he can stick at 3B defensively he should provide good value to the ballclub.

 

He is behind Teixeira considerably offensively. Youk's 08 was a great year. He hasn't done that before and he certainly didn't do it at ages 24-28 like Teixeira did. Youk will deserve a nice payday, maybe as much as 14-15m/year (5 years, $75m?), but he doesn't have Teixeira's track record of production.