Coco's future

[ORS]

The question is' date=' do you expect Ells to rebound. He did well enough in Sept to make the line respectable, but having a CFer whose best attribute is speed, yet he didnt reach base, makes you kinda wonder. I could care less about OPS and SLG in Ellsbury's case. If he's on base, he puts pressure on the pitcher and can score or put himself into scoring position readily. A .332OBP isnt gonna cut it. He needs to be above .350 to be effective. OTOH, Coco is a better defender (although its close), reached base at a higher clip and showed good EBH capability. The numbers were close, but Crisp's were better and the D was better, so I gotta go with him. To be honest with you, I'd float both out there on the wire and see what you can get. If you could nab a lights out reliever for one of them, then I'd do it. (Like Huston Street maybe?)[/quote']

Assuming he doesn't improve, which is unlikely to be the case, why is a .332 OBP not cutting it? The AL average was .336. When you can get league average from a middle of the field player, one who plays elite level defense, it's a good thing. The .350 you suggest is an arbitrary number pulled directly from your turd cutter.

[Dojji]

Frankly I don't think Ellsbury needs to rebound from anything. This isn't Joey Gathright we're talking about here. About all he really needs to do is make progress. He was adequate this year despite a huge rookie slump and despite bouncing around all over the outfield so I'd expect at least the same performance if not better next year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Assuming he doesn't improve' date=' which is unlikely to be the case, why is a .332 OBP not cutting it? The AL average was .336. When you can get league average from a middle of the field player, one who plays elite level defense, it's a good thing. The .350 you suggest is an arbitrary number pulled directly from your turd cutter.[/quote']

 

You dont want to have a guy right at the MLB OBP mark when he is leading off. Ellsbury is worth a hell of a lot more as a leadoff man than as a #9.

 

BTW, what happens this off season? Do the sox move Coco or Ellsbury?

[BoSox21]

BTW' date=' what happens this off season? Do the sox move Coco or Ellsbury?[/quote']

 

Neither, you hope Ellsbury's offense progresses to a point where putting him in the leadoff spot is a no-brainer night in and night out and if not, then you have a decent-hitting, gold glove-quality backup in Coco

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Why the f*** would the Sox trade Ellsbury at this point?

 

 

Not only would I cut myself if that happened, I'd have to change my username.

[Cocos Disciples]

His value is pretty depreciated, I wouldn't deal him for 80 cents on the dollar.

[TheKilo]

The Sox would be wise to hold onto both of them.

[SCM33]

The Sox would be wise to hold onto both of them.

 

 

I think one of them leaves this offseason....although I thought that last offseason as well, and that didnt work out to well.

[CrespoBlows]

I think one of them leaves this offseason....although I thought that last offseason as well' date=' and that didnt work out to well.[/quote']

 

Crisp stepped in pretty well for Ellsbury toward the end of the season.

[TheKilo]

Coco, regular season after 8/1:

 

.341/.407/.423/.830 in 142 PA

 

Coco, postseason:

 

.417/.517/.500/1.017 in 29 PA

 

FYI, Jacoby Ellsbury last postseason:

 

.360/.429/.520/.949 in 28 PA

[Mr Crunchy]

with jd drew on the roster we need 4 starters in the outfield, this is obvious.

i dont want to argue about it,i simply want to be rational when discussing this.

ellsburys inability to get on base consistantly was a crucial point of concern for this teams offense and one they must work on improving next year.

they figured out ways of getting him out after april and he was basically off balance the rest of the season,crisp is what he is..

a .275 lite hitting, great fielding, burner who is good enuff to start on a lot of outfields and if given the chance maybe our full time cf next year.

if pedroia is going to have 200 hits a year we need a leadoff guy that gets on base.

neither men who played cf got on base enuff to qualify as effective thruout the season but with their speed and defense its prudent to keep both men and hope the jake develops as he was supposed to.

[BSN07]

Ellsbury is younger, cheaper, and as good as Coco. Ellsbury stock is down, evn tho his season wasn't horrible. Just lower then the extremely high expectations that where on him. Coco's stock on the other hand has to be higher. And to be totally honest, probably won't get higher. Sell High on him. There are some decent 4th OF options that will be FA. I acttually wouldn't mind seeing them go out and get Baldelli.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think the sox end up dealing Coco. Theo has always said he wouldnt make a deal on a player for 50 cents on the dollar and dealing Coco last offseason would have been just that. But with a .280s BA and a .751OPS to go along with his speed and defense, he has some value now. And it may never be higher. There are a lot of teams that would want him to be their starting CFer and that could nab a good prospect or a developed Middle reliever.

[TheKilo]

How come no one is proclaiming Coco to be the savior like EVERYONE did with Ellsbury after his fluke run last postseason?

 

Why can't we deal Ellsbury?

[Paradisecity]

I guess the question is, what would we be dealing either one of them FOR?

 

Apologies for the sentence ending preposition.

[Mr Crunchy]

why deal any of them?

based on history it would be foolish to go into the season without 4 men ready to play the outfield.

bay has been a rock but crisp and drew have had their injury issues and ells is too young and unproven to determine if he is ready to be an every day player.

i see no need to dump either of them unless theres an obvious upgrade

[BoSox21]

I dont see why you change anything with the outfielders. Bay is a rock in left, Ellsbury is an up and comer in center and Drew is solid, albeit fragile, in right which is why you need a capable 4th outfielder, which they have in Coco

[Paradisecity]

why deal any of them?

based on history it would be foolish to go into the season without 4 men ready to play the outfield.

bay has been a rock but crisp and drew have had their injury issues and ells is too young and unproven to determine if he is ready to be an every day player.

i see no need to dump either of them unless theres an obvious upgrade

 

That is what I mean. Are you going to trade our fourth for a different fourth? If so, why? Ours provide flexibility defensively and on the basepaths.

[BoSox21]

its the whole "change for the sake of change thing". outfield isnt really an area of weakness at all and although it would be nice if Coco hit for some power and had a better arm so he could play right, can you really get a five-tool player to be a 4th outfielder anyway?

[Paradisecity]

Coco Crisp? Thats not change. Thats more of the same.

[TheKilo]

I don't think we need to deal either, I was merely commenting on the Ellsbury lovefest that took place last offseason.

 

I'd keep both.

[BSN07]

I'd keep both too. But Coco is gonna want to start and be an everyday player for someone. And if the Sox decide they don't want that he could want out. There are some decent options on the market to bring in a 4th OF. But no don't trade them just to trade them. The return would have to be useful.

[BoSox21]

Coco Crisp? Thats not change. Thats more of the same.

 

I didnt say it was change. I was commenting on people wanting to trade Crisp just because it would be change for change's sake

[Paradisecity]

I was kidding. Its a Joe Biden quote.

[Cocos Disciples]

Keep it the same.