Coco's future

[Jayhawk Bill]

What exactly is a "good percentage"?

 

I'm not sure, but I think that it's just enough to make Gom feel good about it.

 

FWIW, I took a few minutes and posted my 2008 predictions over in that other thread. But since Rays' wins and Yankees' wins seem to be an issue here, my AL East prognostication, again:

 

[table]AL East | |

Red Sox | 97 | 65

Yankees | 96 | 66

Blue Jays | 83 | 79

Rays | 82 | 80

Orioles | 72 | 90[/table]

[Gom]

I'm not sure' date=' but I think that it's just enough to make Gom feel good about it.[/quote']

You had me at hello.

[riverside sluggers]

Coco Crisp said Friday that having to "reprove" himself in a spring competition with Jacoby Ellsbury is "kind of bogus" and reiterated that he has no desire to be a bench player.

 

"Why would you want to sit on the bench? Why would you want to do that?" Crisp said. "I want to play. I know, and I think the team knows, that I went out there and played hurt last year. Not to be rewarded with an actual opportunity to help, it kind of hurts." A trade or Ellsbury beginning the season at Triple-A seems far more likely than both players remaining on the roster together.

 

So theo, want to say again about how the media "spun" Coco's trade request?

[TheKilo]

Can you blame Crisp?

[Jayhawk Bill]

Can you blame Crisp?

 

Yes. He's paid a few million dollars a year to support his team, and he's not helping it with these quotes to the media.

[a700hitter]

Yes. He's paid a few million dollars a year to support his team' date=' and he's not helping it with these quotes to the media.[/quote']Crisp may be nothing more than a 4th outfielder. He's attributing his poor offensive showings to injuries, and maybe that is the case, or maybe healthy he is n ever going to produce much with the bat. As a 4th OF with a team like Boston he could have a pretty good career and the limited playing time could coverup some of his offensive deficiencies if Francona uses him correctly. If he goes to some s*** team and plays CF full time, he could bomb out and find himself in a situation where he has ruined his market value. He should shut his mouth and try to win the position.

[das11209]

Coco is not only a really really bad player on offense - he is turning out to be quite a pain in the ass for the team. So far he could have won the job in spring training with good showing as Ellsbury has not done s*** yet this year. But he has not shown up in the field yet with groin injury and is running his stupid mouth again. How come he does not get it that no-one in the league wants him in their starting line-up - they would rather go with rookies? At some point would it ever occur to him that he needs to win over the starting job because he SUCKS? What has he done for the Sox in last 2 year and how long is he and his fans gonna give the excuse of a broken finger that happened one and half years back? I have no clue how Tito or any manager for that matter could start him over Jacoby.

 

I may be the Gom on sox side who gives up on his team easy - but I am having bad feeling about this team already.

[TheKilo]

S

[TheKilo]

T

[TheKilo]

F

[TheKilo]

U

[das11209]

TheKilo - that was an intelligent reply - I at least hoped you will come up with some statistics.

[TheKilo]

Statistics only go so far. We get it. You don't like Coco. Nothing we say will convince you of that.

 

Let. It. Go.

[das11209]

Statistics only go so far. We get it. You don't like Coco. Nothing we say will convince you of that.

 

Let. It. Go.

 

 

Dude - I don't like him because he thinks he is better than Ellsbury, will not accept a 4th OF role which he is best suited for and by voicing his opinion publically he is becoming a cancer in my team where they will be forced to deal him for nothing. Other than that - I am fine with him.

 

I have no personal vendatta against him and I do not wish him any ill - trust me.

[TheKilo]

Dude - I don't like him because he thinks he is better than Ellsbury, will not accept a 4th OF role which he is best suited for and by voicing his opinion publically he is becoming a cancer in my team where they will be forced to deal him for nothing. Other than that - I am fine with him.

 

I have no personal vendatta against him and I do not wish him any ill - trust me.

 

Can you blame the guy? He's entering the prime of his career, coming off one of the best defensive seasons ever, and is a few years removed from a .300 season. He's supposed to be entering his glory days, not riding the pine. Especially for a rookie who had a good 130 at bats.

 

I, for one, don't blame Coco. I also think people who think "clubhouse cancers" exist are retarded.

[jacksonianmarch]

Coco has no market right now. Once he gets healthy, he might be able to play his way onto another team via trade. But the sox wont deal him unless the right deal comes along, and while he's hurt or ineffective, the right deal wont come along.

[das11209]

Can you blame the guy? He's entering the prime of his career, coming off one of the best defensive seasons ever, and is a few years removed from a .300 season. He's supposed to be entering his glory days, not riding the pine. Especially for a rookie who had a good 130 at bats.

 

I, for one, don't blame Coco. I also think people who think "clubhouse cancers" exist are retarded.

 

OK - so you condone his going to press - is that what you are saying? You think any player who looses out to competition should immediately go to press? I understand Coco's position - this is the second time he lost out to young talent ( first in Cleveland to Sizemore) - so he has a right to be upset. But should he not compete and get his starting job back instead of bitching about it? Or his expectation is that he will be just handed over the starting CF job even though Ellsbury overall outperformed him?

 

Two questions for you:

 

1. Do you support Coco ( or any player) voicing their opinion publically instead of taking it through proper channel or proving them on the field?

2. Do you think Coco should just be handed over the CF job over Ellsbury without any competition (meaning Coco overall is way better than Ellsbury)?

[Mr Crunchy]

when jay payton wasnt getting playing time in 05 despite producing he made such a scene he was shipped out within 18 hours of bitching.

it worked

everyone noticed that tito dumped him inspite of being short outfielders and we did get chad bradford in return....

theres money on the table at risk for coco and he obviously needs to play to get decent #s

[ACL BoSox]

Looks like the sox might have found a buyer...

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/03/coco-crisp-to-t.html

 

Not sure if it makes the mets that much better, but for the sox its addition by subtraction. We'll see if this rumor pans out.

[BSN07]

Looks like the sox might have found a buyer...

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/03/coco-crisp-to-t.html

 

Not sure if it makes the mets that much better, but for the sox its addition by subtraction. We'll see if this rumor pans out.

 

Whats the background on Paegan? If hes just a 4th OF I think the Sox should ask for more. Maybe a low level C along with Paegan.

[TheKilo]

OK - so you condone his going to press - is that what you are saying? You think any player who looses out to competition should immediately go to press? I understand Coco's position - this is the second time he lost out to young talent ( first in Cleveland to Sizemore) - so he has a right to be upset. But should he not compete and get his starting job back instead of bitching about it? Or his expectation is that he will be just handed over the starting CF job even though Ellsbury overall outperformed him?

 

Two questions for you:

 

1. Do you support Coco ( or any player) voicing their opinion publically instead of taking it through proper channel or proving them on the field?

 

I don't "condone" it but I also don't think it's as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

 

2. Do you think Coco should just be handed over the CF job over Ellsbury without any competition (meaning Coco overall is way better than Ellsbury)?

 

No but the competition goes both ways. You seem perfectly fine with handing Ellsbury the job based off of 130 at bats of work.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?share=2&n1=crispco01&year=2007&t=b#575:605:sum

 

Coco Crisp in 117 ABs had an OPS of .935 holy crap!!!!

[TheKilo]

Hey Jayhawk...BP is predicting 88 wins for the Rays. Probably the same statistics they used to determine that Crisp is a better baserunner than Granderson.

 

I couldn't resist.

 

lol...?

[TheKilo]

What I love here is how the Yankees finished two games behind the Sox last year' date=' but a good percentage of you guys is picking them to finish 3rd.[/quote']

 

lol....?

[Dojji]

Back on topic: Crisp performed well enough after a dismal middle of the season that I think he's got some value on the trade market. You can usually find a team anxious for a veteran CF, and a world-class defender who can hit a ~.750 OPS, get on base OK and flash some speed will be in some kind of demand. If you can get more than decent reliever for him, then pull the trigger and bring in Emil Brown to platoon with JD Drew against lefties, who he destroys.

[TheKilo]

Or, you can hold on to the .750 OPS CF who plays world class defense and gets on base and has speed.

[Dojji]

Or' date=' you can hold on to the .750 OPS CF who plays world class defense and gets on base and has speed.[/quote']

 

 

Which one?

[TheKilo]

Both?

[Dojji]

I guess it depends on if what you would get back might be worth more than the redundancy at centerfield.

[jacksonianmarch]

The question is, do you expect Ells to rebound. He did well enough in Sept to make the line respectable, but having a CFer whose best attribute is speed, yet he didnt reach base, makes you kinda wonder. I could care less about OPS and SLG in Ellsbury's case. If he's on base, he puts pressure on the pitcher and can score or put himself into scoring position readily. A .332OBP isnt gonna cut it. He needs to be above .350 to be effective. OTOH, Coco is a better defender (although its close), reached base at a higher clip and showed good EBH capability. The numbers were close, but Crisp's were better and the D was better, so I gotta go with him. To be honest with you, I'd float both out there on the wire and see what you can get. If you could nab a lights out reliever for one of them, then I'd do it. (Like Huston Street maybe?)

[TheKilo]

Yes, as much as I've s*** on Ellsbury, I expect him to rebound. You can't ignore 1000 MiLB ABs that tell you he can be an effective MLB player.

 

.314/.390/.426/.816

 

He's an effective MLB player right now because a .750 OPS with that defense is more than respectable.