2008 Red Sox vs. Yankees

[example1]

All things Sox vs. Yankees for the 08 season

 

To start, a FOX Sports article comparing the two teams:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7593472

 

 

Actually a pretty fair article IMO. Yankees lineup is better, but the Sox have a good lineup nonetheless. The Sox meanwhile have the better pitching staff through and through, better defense by a mile and a better manager. I could have told you that.

 

Just figured we needed a spot for stuff like this as Spring Training approaches. :dunno:

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

All things Sox vs. Yankees for the 08 season

 

To start, a FOX Sports article comparing the two teams:

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7593472

 

 

Actually a pretty fair article IMO. Yankees lineup is better, but the Sox have a good lineup nonetheless. The Sox meanwhile have the better pitching staff through and through, better defense by a mile and a better manager. I could have told you that.

 

Just figured we needed a spot for stuff like this as Spring Training approaches. :dunno:

 

You have to like the Red Sox situation much more than the Yanks as far as the kids in the rotation are concerned. The Red Sox have the opportunity to ease the kids in the mix where the Yankees are relying on the kids to get them innings and wins. There are no other alternatives. If Hughes, Chamberlain, or Kennedy falter (which rookies have plenty of lumps in the beginning) then the Yankees will suffer. They don't have the bullpen power to get them out of the jams either.

[Cocos Disciples]

Johan Santana could change things a lot either way.

[jacksonianmarch]

Santana will decide this. If he goes to the Mets or stays in Minnesota, the sox will still have an advantage in the rotation, but it will not be terribly huge. If he goes to Boston, then the rotation edge isnt even close. If he goes to NY the rotation edge may shift in NY's favor depending on who is given up.

 

As is, the sox rotation is better as they have a true ace. Beckett trumps everything the yankees have right now. Could one of the kids step up and be an ace this yr, certainly possible, but not a definite like the sox have. But if Santana is not entered into either equation, there is a damn good chance that the entire production of the rotations are similar. But unless Joba or Hughes cement themselves as aces this yr, the sox will have the decided advantage in a short playoff series.

 

In terms of bullpen, the sox have the advantage again, for now. Papelbon is the real deal, and right now he is a better reliever than Mo. Okajima may or may not have been a one hit wonder. His stuff isnt impressive, he tired by August and started getting smacked around the more the league saw of him. The true trump card the sox hold right now is MDC. He is a beast in the making. And even if Oki and Timlin have pedestrian yrs, they are still reliable enough to hand the ball to on a regular basis. But the hammer in paps and the solid performance of MDC makes me concerned for a 1-2 punch at the end of the pen that could be active for yrs. For us, Mo is getting old and Hawkins/Farnsworth are going to be serviceable but not spectacular. The true test of our pen will be how the kids handle it. The acquisition of Albaladejo is big as he is a big, powerful pitcher with good K rates for a sinkerballer. If he continues to pitch like he did last yr, he could be our setup man by the end of the yr. Other guys in the mix initially include the enigmatic Edwar Ramirez who K's a ton of guys, but also loses the zone frequently. The fat tub of goo Britton, who was very effective in the minors and in 06 with the O's. He should have a shot at a spot out of ST. Jose Veras, who tore up the winter leagues this yr after having an injury plagued yr. He has the stuff, but is likely one demotion away from being out of the org. And Ross Ohlendorf who showed control and a return of power when moved to the pen. He will likely have a spot out of ST barring a monumental collapse and he could play a big role. Either way, the differences here are that the sox have a young closer and a young MR who has already starting cementing himself as a quality reliever. You have what we hope these kids will become and that is the difference.

 

In terms of offense, it isnt very close. There is significant depth to the lineup with a bench that will be very solid on the offensive side of the ball. We finally have a quality backup catcher who might be able to get a bit more mileage out of Posada. We have a healthy Giambi, who even when he isnt hitting, gets on base at a high rate. We have 2 young kids with tons of power and good patience who will see a significant amount of time this yr in Betemit and Duncan. We have possibly the best 2b in the AL in Cano who is only going to get better. Jeter on the offensive side is still an automatic .310 season, although his power is dwindling a bit. The 3 OFs who will rotate between LF and RF are Matsui, Damon and Abreu. Matsui should be fully healthy and hit rather well last season even through the injuries. Abreu still gets on base at a high rate and salvaged himself in the second half as did Damon. And then we have the best hitter in the game in ARod. Also, dont forget about Melky, who was hitting over .300 and had an OPS around .800 prior to his dreadful month of September. Regardless, the yankees will have a solid lineup that will go 9 deep and a bench that will have solid matchup capabilities later in the game.

 

On D, it isnt very close. Vtek vs Posada is mostly a wash in terms of blocking balls and throwing runners out (Posada edge in arm, Vtek edge in blocking) but Vtek is the better game caller. Youk is the best 1b on defense in the game and for us it will be a rotating butcher block. Cano is superior defensively to Pedroia. As bad a Lugo is, he is still a better defensive SS than Jeter. Lowell and ARod are nearly a wash, although I'd still take Lowell's glove over ARod's. Manny and Matsui are both butchers in left. Damon in left is an upgrade. Melky vs Coco is an edge to the sox solely because of range, but his arm does make up some of the difference. Drew vs Abreu is mostly a wash as well. So only one decided advantage on our side with Cano (mostly due to range) while the other positions are a wash or a decided advantage for the sox.

 

But as Coco said, Santana decides this. Right now, the teams are well matched with the sox having the advantage IMO out of the gate, albeit a smaller one that could widen or shrink depending on how our kids develop. But Santana will decide this for this yr IMO.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Here's an easy call. Joe Girardi has his merits, certainly, but Terry Francona has two World Series rings in four seasons on the job. The Sox's skipper, in particular, handles the bullpen exceptionally well and has a knack for gaining the platoon advantage. In terms of personality, Francona's an even-keeled sort, and the players obviously respond to his leadership style. Girardi may turn into a great manager, but right now Francona IS a great manager.

 

I strongly disagree.

 

Terry Francona was given, far and away, the best team in MLB in 2004 and he almost screwed it up. In 2005 and 2006 he was unable to manage his team through injury challenges. In 2007 he managed four players to probably the worst years of their careers (JD Drew, Julio Lugo, Wily Mo Pena and Manny Ramirez--one could toss in Doug Mirabelli for good measure), but his pitching saved him. He again had the best team in baseball, and he won another World Series with it.

 

Francona's good work with his 2007 bullpen was his first good year with any MLB bullpen. One must consider the positive impact of John Farrell: everything suddenly changed when he arrived. Yes, hypothetically Tito might not have listened, but notably the FO had canned his pitching coach after 2006 and left Tito without a 2008 contract until after the World Series win.

 

Terry Francona's game-level decisions are Gawd-awful. He loves career splits batter vs. pitcher. He ignores current season and recent performance trends. That causes him to pick the wrong players for his starting lineup. Furthermore, he gets too few runs from his talent and too few wins from his runs. There's a little-known BP stat that measures exactly that, D3:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php

 

Terry Francona's Red Sox won 7.1 fewer games in 2007 than they should have, given their performance on the ballfield.

 

Francona does stick up for all of his players not named Jay Payton, and after troubles in 2004-2006 the team has learned to respect that. Firing Terry Francona would be unthinkable: he did win the World Series, and the players like him. He's not the best, but he's good enough that he can't be fired.

 

But Joe Girardi has won Manager of the Year in 100% of his MLB seasons as manager. He kept his team in contention into September despite having just two players earning over a million dollars and just four more earning more than $25,000 above league minimum. Girardi IS a great manager; Francona is just a manager who has been blessed with great teams.

[example1]

Santana will decide this. If he goes to the Mets or stays in Minnesota' date=' the sox will still have an advantage in the rotation, but it will not be terribly huge. If he goes to Boston, then the rotation edge isnt even close. If he goes to NY the rotation edge may shift in NY's favor depending on who is given up. [/quote']

 

Yes, the destination of the best pitcher in baseball will effect each team's overall pitching prowess. Of course, as discussed, if the Yankees lose Hughes to get him that is a big loss. If the Sox lose Lester it isn't as big a loss (though I think the difference between them isn't that great)

 

As is, the sox rotation is better as they have a true ace. Beckett trumps everything the yankees have right now. Could one of the kids step up and be an ace this yr, certainly possible, but not a definite like the sox have. But if Santana is not entered into either equation, there is a damn good chance that the entire production of the rotations are similar. But unless Joba or Hughes cement themselves as aces this yr, the sox will have the decided advantage in a short playoff series.

 

The Sox are better at the top and they are deeper with better talent at the bottom. I basically agree with ya here.

 

 

In terms of bullpen, the sox have the advantage again, for now. Papelbon is the real deal, and right now he is a better reliever than Mo. Okajima may or may not have been a one hit wonder. His stuff isnt impressive, he tired by August and started getting smacked around the more the league saw of him. The true trump card the sox hold right now is MDC. He is a beast in the making. And even if Oki and Timlin have pedestrian yrs, they are still reliable enough to hand the ball to on a regular basis. But the hammer in paps and the solid performance of MDC makes me concerned for a 1-2 punch at the end of the pen that could be active for yrs. For us, Mo is getting old and Hawkins/Farnsworth are going to be serviceable but not spectacular. The true test of our pen will be how the kids handle it. The acquisition of Albaladejo is big as he is a big, powerful pitcher with good K rates for a sinkerballer. If he continues to pitch like he did last yr, he could be our setup man by the end of the yr. Other guys in the mix initially include the enigmatic Edwar Ramirez who K's a ton of guys, but also loses the zone frequently. The fat tub of goo Britton, who was very effective in the minors and in 06 with the O's. He should have a shot at a spot out of ST. Jose Veras, who tore up the winter leagues this yr after having an injury plagued yr. He has the stuff, but is likely one demotion away from being out of the org. And Ross Ohlendorf who showed control and a return of power when moved to the pen. He will likely have a spot out of ST barring a monumental collapse and he could play a big role. Either way, the differences here are that the sox have a young closer and a young MR who has already starting cementing himself as a quality reliever. You have what we hope these kids will become and that is the difference.

 

Very good analysis. The bullpen is a fickle beast indeed. Nobody expected the Sox to do what they did last year bullpen-wise. I think Okajima will last, though he won't put up the dominant numbers he did last year. He won't lose his control and he really did develop into a different pitcher with the invention of his changeup. His numbers last year were probably a combination of a really good run and the development of a devistating pitch that makes him really effective against righties. To have a left handed set-up man who can throw well to righties is a hugely beneficial thing. It means a lot less need for specialization pitching at the end of games, and allows you to do that pitching earlier in the game. Thus turning the "specialty pitching" game into a 1 inning affair, rather than 2-3 innings.

 

It will be interesting to see how the Yankees end up addressing their bullpen. It really comes down to a question of valuation, and how they handle the CHamberlain situation will be indicative of their current thinking. Chamberlain can shorten the game if he's a reliever and could be one of the best closers in the game if they move that direction. I don't really like the Rivera contract from this year, but he's not a bad option at the end of a pen.

 

 

In terms of offense, it isnt very close. There is significant depth to the lineup with a bench that will be very solid on the offensive side of the ball. We finally have a quality backup catcher who might be able to get a bit more mileage out of Posada. We have a healthy Giambi, who even when he isnt hitting, gets on base at a high rate. We have 2 young kids with tons of power and good patience who will see a significant amount of time this yr in Betemit and Duncan. We have possibly the best 2b in the AL in Cano who is only going to get better. Jeter on the offensive side is still an automatic .310 season, although his power is dwindling a bit. The 3 OFs who will rotate between LF and RF are Matsui, Damon and Abreu. Matsui should be fully healthy and hit rather well last season even through the injuries. Abreu still gets on base at a high rate and salvaged himself in the second half as did Damon. And then we have the best hitter in the game in ARod. Also, dont forget about Melky, who was hitting over .300 and had an OPS around .800 prior to his dreadful month of September. Regardless, the yankees will have a solid lineup that will go 9 deep and a bench that will have solid matchup capabilities later in the game.

 

The Yankees offense will be a juggernaught. It has been the past few years. It might not be "close" but the Sox have one of the superior offenses in baseball. They may get shut down by a wider range of pitchers over the course of the season, but in any game they will be more than adequate to compete. Not every team has players who can win a game single handedly. The Yankees do, in A-Rod and the Sox do in Ortiz. Beyond that, there are a number of good hitters. If Drew comes back to his career averages (harder league but better park) and Ellsbury puts up a .375 OBP then this offense will be fine.

 

On D, it isnt very close. Vtek vs Posada is mostly a wash in terms of blocking balls and throwing runners out (Posada edge in arm, Vtek edge in blocking) but Vtek is the better game caller. Youk is the best 1b on defense in the game and for us it will be a rotating butcher block. Cano is superior defensively to Pedroia. As bad a Lugo is, he is still a better defensive SS than Jeter. Lowell and ARod are nearly a wash, although I'd still take Lowell's glove over ARod's. Manny and Matsui are both butchers in left. Damon in left is an upgrade. Melky vs Coco is an edge to the sox solely because of range, but his arm does make up some of the difference. Drew vs Abreu is mostly a wash as well. So only one decided advantage on our side with Cano (mostly due to range) while the other positions are a wash or a decided advantage for the sox.

 

I agree with just about everything you said. I think Lowell is a considerably better defender than A-Rod, but A-Rod is satisfactory. Looking at the numbers it appears that Cano had a larger impact on his club defensively last year than Pedroia did. However, I simply don't believe that Cano is better defensively than Pedroia. Cano is perhaps more athletic, and definitely faster. My gut (and tons of hours of observation) tell me that Pedroia lined up better, turned more difficult throws into outs and--as indicated by his FP%, lame stat, I know but indicative of a simple chances to errors ratio.

 

Pedroia did some amazing things defensively last year and made some enormous plays when they mattered. If I had to pick between these players to make an out for their team I'd take Pedroia every time. Of course, I think I can be easily swayed by some of Cano's really poor plays. I'd be interested if anyone else wanted to break down Pedroia vs. Cano defensively.

 

But as Coco said, Santana decides this. Right now, the teams are well matched with the sox having the advantage IMO out of the gate, albeit a smaller one that could widen or shrink depending on how our kids develop. But Santana will decide this for this yr IMO.

 

I think people will be surprised by the fact that the Red Sox of 2008 will be an enormously improved team from last year because:

 

--They will have essentially added 2 quality starters to the rotation in Lester and Buchholz. Both of them will be able to win on any given night and should be equal to, if not favorites against, just about any other offense + starter in the league.

 

 

--Matsuzaka should be a better pitcher than he was last year. He should be able to extend some of the stretches he had last year. Frankly, I see a lot of similarities between Beckett 06 and Matsuzaka 07. They both did a lot of fairly uncharacteristic things that ended up burning them. Matsuzaka's stretches of walk-walk-walk-flair double down the line were frustrating, but could easily be fixed by getting a ground out or throwing one more strike three batters previous. That's the big improvement we saw with Beckett. It's not that he gained a new pitch or suddenly had control, it was that he would mix his pitches a little better and simply throw them all for strikes. He didn't become a strikeout artist, he just let his stuff work for him and didn't make stupid mistakes. Matsuzaka is a real pro, the guy was put on this Earth to be a pitcher and he knows that. He will ultimately justify all the hype.

 

--Ellsbury may be the best Red Sox leadoff hitter in history when all is said and done. He could be a CF with the defensive impact of Crisp and the offensive impact of Pedroia. To add that to this lineup would really strengthen the weakest link on the team previously.

 

 

 

Overall, I agree with both JM and the article. I think that the Sox will be a much improved team in 2008, even though their improvements may be below the surface moreso than in many offseasons.

[example1]

Girardi IS a great manager; Francona is just a manager who has been blessed with great teams.

 

I'm gonna give it some time before concluding that Girardi is a great manager. I agree with you that Francona's talent has been really, really good. It has. But in a place like Boston it would be easy for a manager to overstep their bounds and try to change players who are already good, or to have a hard time with the media. Francona has at least helped himself by not actively making his players worse, which is something. The fact that he's been able to stay in Boston for this long and with that collection of world class stars around him (Ortiz, Manny, Schilling, Matsuzaka, etc.,). The place is a zoo and Terry's been a good zoo keeper.

[Cityofchampions33]

I agree with just about everything you said. I think Lowell is a considerably better defender than A-Rod, but A-Rod is satisfactory. Looking at the numbers it appears that Cano had a larger impact on his club defensively last year than Pedroia did. However, I simply don't believe that Cano is better defensively than Pedroia. Cano is perhaps more athletic, and definitely faster. My gut (and tons of hours of observation) tell me that Pedroia lined up better, turned more difficult throws into outs and--as indicated by his FP%, lame stat, I know but indicative of a simple chances to errors ratio.

 

Pedroia did some amazing things defensively last year and made some enormous plays when they mattered. If I had to pick between these players to make an out for their team I'd take Pedroia every time. Of course, I think I can be easily swayed by some of Cano's really poor plays. I'd be interested if anyone else wanted to break down Pedroia vs. Cano defensively.

 

As much as it pains me to say, Cano really improved last season defensively. And in doing this he doubled Pedroia's RAR and trounced him in RAA. Not to mention his range factor beats out Pedroia. In some ways, Pedroia has pulled out a Jeter, looking good, but not backing it up statistically, besides errors and F%.

[example1]

As much as it pains me to say' date=' Cano really improved last season defensively. And in doing this he doubled Pedroia's RAR and trounced him in RAA. Not to mention his range factor beats out Pedroia. In some ways, Pedroia has pulled out a Jeter, looking good, but not backing it up statistically, besides errors and F%.[/quote']

 

I saw those numbers, but I still don't think they are definitive. Cano was 20 FRAA better than Pedroia defensively? Other than perhaps having more opportunities or more double play opportunities because of worse pitching, I don't really know what Pedroia could have done last year that he didn't do defensively. There weren't many balls where I said to myself "he should have had that" or where he made blatent mistakes that hurt himself. The discrepency in numbers is nowhere near their real difference. I believe Cano improved, but I don't believe he is that much better.

[Jayhawk Bill]

I saw those numbers' date=' but I still don't think they are definitive. Cano was 20 FRAA better than Pedroia defensively? Other than perhaps having more opportunities or more double play opportunities because of worse pitching, I don't really know what Pedroia could have done last year that he didn't do defensively. There weren't many balls where I said to myself "he should have had that" or where he made blatent mistakes that hurt himself. The discrepency in numbers is nowhere near their real difference. I believe Cano improved, but I don't believe he is [i']that[/i] much better.

 

Yeah, at least in 2007 he was. Pedroia played his zone well, but he was bad at ranging beyond it.

 

Some stats:

 

[table]Stat | Cano | Pedroia

FRAR | 50 | 21

FRAA | 26 | 2

RZR | .833 | .824

OOZ | 53 | 34

DPS | 60 | 36

DPT | 78 | 44[/table]

 

Cano played only 23% more innings at second base. He had 56% more out-of-zone plays made, 67% more double plays started, and 77% more double plays turned. Cano and Pedroia were almost the same at fielding balls within their assigned zone, but Cano was better in every other respect.

 

That said, two points in Pedroia's defense:

 

1) I don't have game-by-game breakdowns and monthly splits on fielding stats, but Pedroia got off to a horrible start defensively, just as he did at the plate. I bet he'll look much better in 2008.

 

2) Cano benefitted both from Chien-Ming Wang's propensity for inducing ground balls and Yankees groundskeepers propensity for soaking the infield at Yankee Stadium. There's a Park Factor benefitting Cano that I can't easily isolate.

 

I'm gonna give it some time before concluding that Girardi is a great manager.

 

Cool. Joe Torre was and is among the best, too, so it may not be immediately evident, but I'm very confident that Girardi will be recognized, with hindsight, as one of the best, too.

 

Passing thought: the Marlins went from fifth-best to fifteenth-best in the NL in pitching after Girardi left. If the Yankees young starters flourish as much under Girardi as the Marlins' young starters did, it'll be evident by the beginning of summer that something very special is going on in the Bronx.

 

Francona has at least helped himself by not actively making his players worse, which is something.

 

Except for Derek Lowe, Pedro Martinez, Edgar Renteria, Alan Embree, Cla Meredith, Craig Hansen, Coco Crisp, Wily Mo Pena, Julio Lugo, JD Drew...Eric Gagne...Matt Clement...

 

Lots of players have declined upon first playing for Terry Francona, improved upon their leaving, or both. The success of the team overall tends to make us forget that, but lots of players have failed to thrive under Terry Francona.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jayhawk, Torre was not among the best when he left. When he came in, he could do no wrong. Even bonehead moves turned out for him since his team was loaded with guys who got the job done (most of the time unspectacularly). By the end, he made so many boneheaded moves that he could only trust the superstars, and many rookies and mediocre players who could have taken some of the burden, were swept to the wayside. This is his curse. By the end of the yr, his best players were either run down or injured. And his effects could easily be seen in the bullpen where he took many a talented rookie and turned them into mush. I like Girardi in his very small sample size because he had the balls to rely on the kids in every situation in Florida. Part of that had to do with the fact that that team was so young, but at the same time, he pushed a ton of rookies through on a regular basis and got them to believe.

[Mr Crunchy]

im not a francona guy but last year was his best

 

the ability to manage a club house with curt schillings mouth and manny ramirez head along with josh becketts ego and jd drews menstrual issues cant be easy,then you mix in the kids,essentially release crisp to the dogs for a rookie then go 11-3 in october is ok by me

[Paradisecity]

I must say, I've gained a lot of respect for him in the past year.

 

He still can't manage a game to save his life though.

[Cityofchampions33]

I saw those numbers' date=' but I still don't think they are definitive. Cano was 20 FRAA better than Pedroia defensively? Other than perhaps having more opportunities or more double play opportunities because of worse pitching, I don't really know what Pedroia could have done last year that he didn't do defensively. There weren't many balls where I said to myself "he should have had that" or where he made blatent mistakes that hurt himself. The discrepency in numbers is nowhere near their real difference. I believe Cano improved, but I don't believe he is [i']that[/i] much better.

 

As Jayhawk mentioned it is hard to isolate stats such as CMWs ability to get a shitload of groundballs, and another factor to consider is maybe Red Sox pitching had more Ks and less balls hit into play than the Yankees. However, it is proven that Cano had better range, that is all I can legitimately say he has without question. His DPS and DPT is kind of a non-enlightening stat as Cano/Pedro have no ability in determining how many chances they get or start, a % would be more telling in both categories. And understood, I too feel Dustin is very very strong defensively, and as you stated, saw nothing big he could improve on.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Jayhawk, Torre was not among the best when he left. When he came in, he could do no wrong.

 

...

 

I like Girardi in his very small sample size because he had the balls to rely on the kids in every situation in Florida. Part of that had to do with the fact that that team was so young, but at the same time, he pushed a ton of rookies through on a regular basis and got them to believe.

 

Torre had certainly declined, although I personally believe that Torre peaked in 2004-2005, long after the Yankees had started to decline as a team. I still consider the 2007 Joe Torre better than many MLB managers, including Terry Francona.

 

We concur that Girardi looks promising for the 2008 Yankees. I personally hope that his big mouth gets him into trouble and that he gets canned before the Yankees FO realizes how good he is.

[Gom]

Truth is, flip a coin.

 

I think the Yankees rotation is much better than most people think. First of all, we won't have the likes of Pavano, Igawa, Wright, Desalvo, etc. At the very WORST, Kennedy, Chamberlain, and Hughes will be better than the other guys.

 

Realize one thing. We were both down 1-3 to the Guardians. You had a longer series with them. Kudos to you, but the difference between us at this point is a coin flip. In a short series, I admit, I like the Sox better because of their better pitching. Over the course of the season, I think the Yankee bats will carry the Yankees to a division title. Both of us will be playing in October. Again.

 

Some guy named Johan can slightly alter the mix, in my opinion. Not sure on that one though

[Jayhawk Bill]

His DPS and DPT is kind of a non-enlightening stat as Cano/Pedro have no ability in determining how many chances they get or start' date=' a % would be more telling in both categories. [/quote']

 

While some players get more or fewer double play opportunities per inning played, it varies by nothing like the 67% - 77% advantage that Cano had over Pedroia in counting stats. In 2007, Cano was better at both double play skills than Pedroia.

 

Realize one thing. We were both down 1-3 to the Guardians. You had a longer series with them. Kudos to you, but the difference between us at this point is a coin flip.

 

Postseason records, 2007:

 

Yankees vs. Guardians: .250

 

Red Sox vs. Guardians: .571

 

If you're pushing for coin-flip parity, try looking back to how close both teams were over 162 games in the same division. Citing post-season records vs. the Guardians isn't your best case.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gom is right. As Yankee fans, this past season was demoralizing, but it isnt like we were 62-100. We finished 2 games behind you guys mostly because of our injuries early on. We had something like 12 starters make starts last season, which is a record for the yankees. And when most of them are fringe guys, that makes things seem to go out of your favor. All the while, you guys actually had a pretty steady rotation. Yes, Schill missed some time as did Wake, but they were still there for the majority of their starts. Becks made all but 2 of his starts. DiceK made all of his starts. Tavarez, Lester and Buchholz sucked up the remaining fill in time and the #5 hole.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Gom is right.

 

Nah. The small samples versus the Guardians are meaningless.

 

...but it isnt like we were 62-100. We finished 2 games behind you guys...

 

That I'll buy. The Yankees were, IMO, the second-best team in MLB last year, and they'll be strong competitors again in 2008.

[rician blast]

As Yankee fans' date=' this past season was demoralizing, but it isnt like we were 62-100. We finished 2 games behind you guys[/quote']

 

You are right, the Yanks hung in all year and were not far out of the race in the end. It's important to remember that the best team doesn't always win.

 

However, in 2007, it did.

[MANNYHOF24]

Like every year, this is going to be an extremely close race. I actually agree with Jacko and Gom on this one. The Yankees offense is just so good, that it will let them just absolutely beat on the scum of the leauge. I think the Sox pitching is still better than the Yankees with a front three of Beckett, Schilling, and DiceK but it isn't by a large margin. Even though the Sox offense isn't as potent as the Yanks, it is still going to be a very, very good lineup 1-9. I expect a much better year from Ramirez. I could easily see him hitting 35 bombs and driving in 120 runs. I also think with Ortiz getting right this offseason health wise is going to allow him to hit more homeruns as well. Another thing to watch is J.D. Drew. If he can return to the player he was in the NL, this offense can be great. I fully expect us to have a mucb better lineup in 08, then we had in 07. With all that being said, there is no reason for us Sox fans to count out the Yankees at all. They still have AROD, they still have Jeter, they still have Abreu and they still have Posada. They are going to score runs. I think there pitching will hold up enough for them to 90-95 games just like they did last year. This is going to be a dogfight that should last deep into september and I can't wait for it to start.