Who would you take Part II? Cano or Pedroia?

[TheKilo]

mj

the kid turned into a f***ing giabrone once they payed him

he has the dance routine down with cabrerra but the fact is he isnt hustling, he doenst play the field well and his power #s are identical to our 170lb 2bman who would eat your guys lunch while ass f***ing his wife...

cano has regressed and acts as if hes accomplished something proffesionally,its too bad because the talent is there

 

Aces. Simply put, aces.

[Gom]

Again' date=' your comments are laughable for someone who considers himself a yankee fan. Thing is, YOU DONT KNOW s*** ABOUT THE PLAYERS YOU SUPPOSEDLY ROOT FOR. As always, f***ing dumbass. [/quote']

You do? That's the true humor here. It was idiots like you wanted to keep Kennedy instead of trading him for Santana or Fuentes. It was idiots like you kept putting out Cabrera out there. It was an idiot just like you who is at the helm of the Yankees when he was given full run of the organization and has run it into the ground. A $200 million dollar payroll and 3rd place. You defend such idiots, so therefore, you are one of them. Wake up and realize that the Yankees, like the Red Sox, are a big market team. The go after big market players. The ONLY reason you don't hear the Red Sox complain about Santana is because as of today, they are in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed...you'd see a very different RSN.

 

I don't waste my time with how players are doing in winter ball. Or class A ball. Why? Those statistics are basically meaningless. When they get to Triple A, then it starts having "some" relevance. Not all the relevance. Just some. Just ask Ian Kennedy.

 

I leave the minor leagues, especially the lower minor leagues, to people like you. When they get up here, I'll take over and analyze it. You're out of your league when you actually watch the players.

 

We root for the same team here. Go back and check out my post about what the Yankees should have done at the end of last season. Do you deny that they would be better off right now? Is there any doubt? I'll do it again this coming off-season. I'll be right again, and Cashman will f*** it up.

 

I have a serious question for you. Why do you defend Cashman so much? Are you related or something? I give him credit when he does well, and kill him when he does poorly. You walk around like this guy walks on water. Why? Because he rebuilt a farm system? ********. The farm system was already rebuilt. Just before his watch, the Yankees called up Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Pettitte, and Mo. In the span of five years, we got those five. I would call that a very good, if not one of the all-time great stretches in homegrown talent in baseball. For those of you ready to argue, it's not who had the greatest, just the point that it was a great system.

 

He took over a team....the farm system dried up, having drafted one impact player in a decade. His credentials in signing free agents is poor [Mussina not-withstanding]. His trading, when not a salary dump, is very poor. He has shown an ability at the trade deadline to make decent deals. He didn't deal for Sabathia, he turned down Johan...seriously, why do you like him? Because he fixed what he himself broke? The farm system? Are you really that naive?

 

Never have I seen someone who dispenses medication so sorely in need of it.

Baseball is a game of streaks and consistency. And while players go into good and bad stretches, all players have at least one horrendous streak during their careers that skew a season from the norm. Jeter had his in 2004, when he hit .292 (second lowest of his career until this yr) but rebounded to hit .309 then .343 the next 2 yrs. You cannot evaluate a player based upon their streaks. Some good (see Xavier Nady) and some bad (like Cano). That being said, Cano is fitting more and more into the mold of a player who will be an all field hitter with gap power. My main concern is that he isnt developing the power I thought he would. The BA will be there as it has been since April. That being said, Pedroia IS developing and right now he is the better player. If Cano's game grows into his body, then it wont be close. We'll see how he develops. Right now, Cano is a lot more raw than Pedroia, who at 25 is looking like a finished product.

There. Now you're learning. Keep at it doc. Sooner or later, you'll get it.

 

Right now Pedroia is a better player in every facet of the game. I do believe that Cano has more potential upside, but there is no debate this season. However, Cano MAY rebound and hit .330 with 25 homers next year. Pedroia just doesn't have that talent. I am actually very surprised he's lasted that long, as he steps in the buckett and has a big hole down and in and also up and away from his stance, but hey, Garrett Anderson has huge holes in his swing and steps into a tub, not just a buckett, and has been pretty successful in his career.

[ORS]

You are right about his weakest zone (Pedroia's) being down and in, but not about what causes it. Stepping in the buckett creates a hole down and away, not down and in. I agree Anderson does it, and he torches the down and in pitch. He doesn't have a high BA on them, but that's where you can't miss if you want to keep him in the ballpark. Pedroia's hotzone is everything except down and in.

[Gom]

You are right about his weakest zone (Pedroia's) being down and in' date=' but not about what causes it. Stepping in the buckett creates a hole down and away, not down and in. I agree Anderson does it, and he torches the down and in pitch. He doesn't have a high BA on them, but that's where you can't miss if you want to keep him in the ballpark. Pedroia's hotzone is everything except down and in.[/quote']

I don't follow the charts, just what I see. What I've seen is that when he steps in the bucket, he can't keep the ball that's down and in fair. He yanks it foul. Get it in enough, and he's out. Also, the most he can do up and away is flare it to right. However, down and away he can drop the bat on the ball and hit a line drive to right. Up and away, with his mechanics, he can't generate the bat speed or have the arm strength to drive that ball. So you'll see a lot of pop ups on the up and away pitch. What worries me about Pedroia is that once pitchers realize this, if he doesn't adjust quickly, he'll be in trouble. The thing he has going for him is that he uses a light bat and doesn't swing and miss often. However, as a pitcher, I'd attack him with breaking stuff down and in and hard stuff away all day. The most he could ever do is a bloop single.

[jacksonianmarch]

You do? That's the true humor here. It was idiots like you wanted to keep Kennedy instead of trading him for Santana or Fuentes.

 

CC>Santana. If we get CC for nothing but cash while passing on giving up Hughes, Kennedy and Melky, then this is a major, major win.

 

What is your obsession with Brian Fuentes? We just got Marte, who in was a better option for us anyway. Granted, he's gotten off to a rough start, but getting Fuentes isnt an option right now and isnt needed.

 

It was idiots like you kept putting out Cabrera out there. It was an idiot just like you who is at the helm of the Yankees when he was given full run of the organization and has run it into the ground. A $200 million dollar payroll and 3rd place.

 

It was thinking like an idiot than got the yankees to 200 mil in the first place. IT WAS YOUR dumbass way of thinking that gave Pavano the 40 mil contract. The "what have you done for me lately" deal of Vazquez AND Navarro for RJ. f*** THE FARM SYSTEM, WIN NOW, SIGN EVERY WASHED UP GUY WITH A LICK OF TALENT, WE ARE THE YANKEES!!! As Crunchy says all the time, your way of thinking got us the 1997 all star team, only 7-11 yrs too late. We are in third place because we didnt have the payroll flexibility to sign guys because of all the dumbass deals we "absorbed" over the past decade. And we didnt have the goods to make deals because our farm system was destroyed by an owner who had your idea of team building. When you dont have a 1st and 2nd rounder yr in and yr out, your drafts tend to suck

 

You defend such idiots, so therefore, you are one of them. Wake up and realize that the Yankees, like the Red Sox, are a big market team.

 

I know we are a big market team and I want to act like one. But this doesnt mean you sign every washed up loser who comes our way. If you are smart with 200 mil, you shouldnt be in third place. Unfortunately, we werent. And a lot of that has to do with our former owner. And there will be some rectifying that will need to be done.

 

The go after big market players. The ONLY reason you don't hear the Red Sox complain about Santana is because as of today, they are in the playoffs. If the roles were reversed...you'd see a very different RSN.

 

The only reason they are going to the playoffs is because they got their s*** straight earlier than we did. They delved into the farm system and drafted very well, starting in the early part of this decade. They had the goods to deal for Beckett (Hanley is an MVP player, and Anibal will be a solid SP). They developed players like Youkilis, Pedroia, Lowrie, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, MDC, and Papelbon. We didnt get on that train soon enough. The biggest thing we did in 2004 was go over slot and sign Hughes, which, btw f***ed the rest of our draft budget. In 2001, the sox drafted Shoppach and Youkilis. In 2002, the sox drafted Lester and Moss. In 2003, the sox drafted Papelbon and Murphy. In 2004, they drafted Meredith and Pedroia. In 2005, they drafted Buchholz, Hansen, Lowrie and Ellsbury (as well as Bowden). Most teams expect 1 regular out of each draft. The sox have drafted 7 MLB starting position players, 2 MLB starting pitchers, a dominant closer and a solid middle relief man since 2001. That is unheard of. Then factor in a trade that sent another SP and future MVP for Beckett and the sox have developed a full field of players and almost a full rotation

 

Look at that. THIS IS WHY I AM A BELIEVER IN CASHMAN. Cashman's first draft where he really and truly had control and went over budget was 2005. The 2005 draft was a pretty good haul, but injuries have really done a lot to it. (Horne and Cox are the biggest pitchers while Austin Jackson is likely to be the best of this class. Brett Gardner is in this class too). His 2006 draft was phenomenal. His 2007 draft was loaded with high ceiling players and his 2008 draft is loaded with high ceiling arms. He is following the red sox model, which btw, has them going for their 3rd championship in 5 yrs.

 

I don't waste my time with how players are doing in winter ball. Or class A ball. Why? Those statistics are basically meaningless. When they get to Triple A, then it starts having "some" relevance. Not all the relevance. Just some. Just ask Ian Kennedy.

 

I keep track of it because I like to know who is coming down the pipe. Some guys I know are s***, some guys surprise me, a bunch disappoint and then there are some who exceed or live up to expectations. It is like gambling.

 

I leave the minor leagues, especially the lower minor leagues, to people like you. When they get up here, I'll take over and analyze it. You're out of your league when you actually watch the players.

 

that last sentence makes no sense. But that is okay. You can leave the minors to me and I can inform you of players that are close to MLB ready. That being said, brushing them off as unimportant is how we got to be in this predicament

 

We root for the same team here. Go back and check out my post about what the Yankees should have done at the end of last season. Do you deny that they would be better off right now? Is there any doubt? I'll do it again this coming off-season. I'll be right again, and Cashman will f*** it up.

 

You were also for Zito being signed and Joba being traded. How would that have worked out? That being said, a lot is riding on this offseason and changes do need to be made. If Cashman signs CC, then the whole Johan thing disappears. If he doesnt, then he has some splaining to do. And it better be with a guy like Sheets or Harden in tow

 

I have a serious question for you. Why do you defend Cashman so much? Are you related or something? I give him credit when he does well, and kill him when he does poorly. You walk around like this guy walks on water. Why? Because he rebuilt a farm system? ********. The farm system was already rebuilt. Just before his watch, the Yankees called up Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Pettitte, and Mo. In the span of five years, we got those five. I would call that a very good, if not one of the all-time great stretches in homegrown talent in baseball. For those of you ready to argue, it's not who had the greatest, just the point that it was a great system.

 

It was a great system. I agree. It was one of the best. I think BA had them in the top 5 for 5-6 yrs running in the early to mid 90s. But George got greedy. He made an edict that the minor leagues win as well. He wanted minor league championships as well as big league championships. He never really put much stock in the draft or the INTL period either. So we started drafting guys with lower ceilings, college players who came in, did well in the minors and fizzled out as they reached the top. We had guys who didnt go on development schedules who blew out their arms or who just came to the bigs too raw. We drafted terribly in some of the earlier yrs. 2000-2003 we drafted nobody of significance. A bunch of guys who had a a cup of coffee in the pen. 3 first rounders in 2001, all sucked. 2002, we had no 1st or 3rd round picks. And, we were one of the few teams who refused to go over slot at all. That has changed on Cashman's watch.

 

He took over a team....the farm system dried up, having drafted one impact player in a decade.

 

Wrong answer. He really "took over" in 2005. When he took over, the farm was as dry as it could be. His drafts since 05 have ranked as some of the best around. His 06 draft and INTL signing period might go down as one of the best drafts around.

 

His credentials in signing free agents is poor [Mussina not-withstanding]. His trading, when not a salary dump, is very poor. He has shown an ability at the trade deadline to make decent deals. He didn't deal for Sabathia, he turned down Johan...seriously, why do you like him? Because he fixed what he himself broke? The farm system? Are you really that naive?

 

Are you that stupid to think that Cashman had much control of anything in the early part of this millenium? Really? You think he had some autonomy? Yeah? Wanna buy a bridge?

 

Never have I seen someone who dispenses medication so sorely in need of it.

 

Ah, now the personal comments. I see.

 

So, in conclusion. You have your facts wrong. The boss F-ed up this ship and was the main architect of our farm system failing. This lack of farm caused us to make some dumbass decisions regarding FAs, which George was a big part of. It caused us to trade for older, washed up players, which George was a big fan of. George's inner circle in Tampa was calling the shots until Cashman put it on the line in 2005-2006 that he wanted full control or he was gone. But you conveniently forgot that. And, to fairly evaluate a draft, you need to give the college players 2-3 yrs to get to the bigs and the HS kids 4-5 yrs. Since Cashman has now brought the farm system to respectability again (still a top 5 farm system) with his recent drafts, you need to give him a longer leash. Canning him this yr will halt a process that will take a solid 3-5 yrs to complete. All the while, you fill the holes with FA signings and pray for the best.

[Gom]

Good post Jacko. However, using the words "budget" and "payroll flexibility" when using the word "Yankees" is kinda funny.

 

I hated the Pavano signing. I wanted Pedro. I never wanted to trade Joba, but you know what? If the Twins wanted Joba for Santana, I would have done it. Win now at the expense of tomorrow. I'm fine with that. The Yankees have the fiscal resources to fix any long term mistakes. That's the way it goes.

 

Yes, I advocated signing Zito. I also advocated getting Santana. Sad thing is, Zito's been better than Kennedy or Hughes. Santana would have had the Yankees fighting for the wild card. I like Fuentes because if they had Fuentes, one of the back end s***** bullpen pitchers we have [i really hate Edwar, but that's more emotional than anything else] would be gone. Not all of my calls have been perfect, no one is, but I'm a shitload more right than Cashman. I shouldn't be. That's what pisses me off.

 

As for the Sox.....they developed Pedroia, Youk, Lester, and Paps. The rest is garbage or not "there" yet. Only one was around for the first win. It was the big guns, Papi and Manny and the trades, Drew and Beckett and Lowell that won the second one, not the young guys. Same as the first one.

 

If you want Cashman in charge of minor-league development, fine. If you are not going to put Cashman as responsible for everything since he took over, you are looking at just "part of the season". We'll agree to disagree there, so I'll give him a pass. Let's see from 2005 what players he drafted that make an impact.

 

As GM making trades and signing free agents? No way. Vazquez bombed in NY, so he dumped him. I give Cashman a pass on RJ. Why? Guy won the Cy Young the year before. However, Pavano instead of Pedro? Igawa over Lilly, who was willing to give the Yankees a DISCOUNT? Not getting Johan? Not trading a few prospects for CC? Why? Afraid of a rental? Afraid that after CC sees the big lights of the big city, the endorsement deals, the craziness that makes New York the place to play, he'll want to go to the laid back atmosphere of LA with the Angels? How many free agents have gone THAT route in the past?

 

Brett Gardner is not a major league hitter. He does not use his legs AT ALL when he swings. He generates zero torque in his swing. I hope he changes it, because if he does, we've got the top of the order threat for a few years in center. However, I have my doubts. It took me all of 3 games to pick that out. That's what I mean. I look at HOW they play, not the end result as a rookie. Seeing what kind of location they have, their velocity, etc.

 

Truth is, he ran the team into the ground. What he should have done is slowly shed his payroll of the fat while hoping to draft well. Supplement the team with 1-2 year deals until your experiment either panned out or failed.

 

Here's a quick one, before I think about it a little longer in the off-season.

 

Bring back Moose on a 1 year deal, 2 if necessary. Bring back Abreu for another season, he wants to come back. See if you have any takers on Cabrera and/or Kennedy while they still have SOME value. Push hard for CC and Sheets, with CC being the main target. Open the bank for Tex. See what the Mariners would want for Bedard. I'd trade Kennedy and Cabrera as a package in a heartbeat for Bedard. All of them saw their stock come down a bit. Just thinking out loud here. Explore the CF market. Get rid of Edwar, keep Veras, who has a live arm. That's a start. Let's see where your boy wonder goes.

[ORS]

I don't follow the charts' date=' just what I see. What I've seen is that when he steps in the bucket, he can't keep the ball that's down and in fair. He yanks it foul. Get it in enough, and he's out. Also, the most he can do up and away is flare it to right. However, down and away he can drop the bat on the ball and hit a line drive to right. Up and away, with his mechanics, he can't generate the bat speed or have the arm strength to drive that ball. So you'll see a lot of pop ups on the up and away pitch. What worries me about Pedroia is that once pitchers realize this, if he doesn't adjust quickly, he'll be in trouble. The thing he has going for him is that he uses a light bat and doesn't swing and miss often. However, as a pitcher, I'd attack him with breaking stuff down and in and hard stuff away all day. The most he could ever do is a bloop single.[/quote']

Once they realize it? Come on, Gom. You give yourself entirely too much credit. Every team has every at bat on film and the advance scouts scour this stuff. Don't think what you think you've noticed has escaped their eye.

 

Actually, I'd be curious to know how many of Pedroia's 30-35 PAs you catch each week?

[Gom]

Once they realize it? Come on, Gom. You give yourself entirely too much credit. Every team has every at bat on film and the advance scouts scour this stuff. Don't think what you think you've noticed has escaped their eye.

 

Actually, I'd be curious to know how many of Pedroia's 30-35 PAs you catch each week?

Maybe 2 or 3 a week. I know it hasn't escaped their eyes. However, players are stubborn, and they fall into predictable patterns. It's not the amount of ABs. All I need is about 10. True scouts pick it up in one AB. I take a little longer. Not only that, but I discuss it with my brother, who was also a very good baseball player in his day, better than I was in every way but power. I'd love to say that I saw that the Yankees would be better off without Posada, but he's the one who put me on to it. We'd watch an AB, then rewind, and see how he sets up, etc.

 

It's a lot more fun for us than going through pages of statistics.

 

Look, it's obvious that stats are important. I just don't think they're the end all of baseball analysis. Neither is the naked eye. Both, in conjunction, are the best course of action. I agree that stats are more important than the naked eye, but a lot of statheads are willing to discount what the naked eye can see as irrelevant.

[TheKilo]

Ahh ' date='the tried and true, "Watch the games!", comment. This is from page 1 of the [i']Idiot's Guide to Arguing About Performance Analysis When You are Too Stupid to Understand It[/i] book.

[CrespoBlows]

[Mr Crunchy]

what i despise is the sense of entitlement that so many of the casual yankee fans possess.

""when we get texeira sheets and sabbathia you guys will be sorry""

unreal,i understand simple economics but i dont understand the mentality that says you can have whatever you want in life because you got the money.

well team sports are a funny thing and dont subscribe to the all star at every position scheme,you need role players,team players,divas and mental cases....9 divas dont make anything but trouble

[jacksonianmarch]

Well crunch, you have a point. At the same time, you need to develop your guys from within, but fill needed holes from without. Our farm system doesnt have the impact bats at the ready like the sox had. Our most advanced bats are an OBP, gap power 1b in Miranda and a raw, 21 yr old CFer with all the tools. We have the pitching in the farm, but since we got on the train late, most of the high end pitching is in the lower levels, so we'll have to wait awhile. in the meantime, big time power and a front end starter are needs. Dunn and Tex are available in the power dept and CC, Sheets and Harden are available in the ace department. I think we need to shop in both areas.

[YAZMAN]

mj

the kid turned into a f***ing giabrone once they payed him

he has the dance routine down with cabrerra but the fact is he isnt hustling, he doenst play the field well and his power #s are identical to our 170lb 2bman who would eat your guys lunch while ass f***ing his wife...

cano has regressed and acts as if hes accomplished something proffesionally,its too bad because the talent is there

 

You forgot the "and mocking him while he did it" part.

[Gom]

Kilo, I thought you were better than that. Guess you can only analyze things after you read a spread sheet. Sad. Watching the games is a key component of analyzing a player.

 

Dumbass....why do teams send scouts when a team is interested in trading for a player? There should be NO REASON. You have the numbers in front of you. Who needs scouts?

[yankees228]

Kilo, I thought you were better than that. Guess you can only analyze things after you read a spread sheet. Sad. Watching the games is a key component of analyzing a player.

 

Dumbass....why do teams send scouts when a team is interested in trading for a player? There should be NO REASON. You have the numbers in front of you. Who needs scouts?

 

Even though the last part of your post is meant to be sarcastic, there are GMs that would actually agree with it.

[TheKilo]

Gom - Your strawmen get old after a while. When did I say watching the games don't mean anything? All I'm saying is statistics mean just as much, something you don't believe.

[soxfan17881]

I take Pedroia. Sure, I'm a fan, but I have some reasoning other than that...

 

Pedroia is impressive defensively. Right now, we need Pedroia's super-consistency at the plate. I'll admit that I don't watch the Yankees very much at all, but I get the impression that Pedroia is quite the clubhouse guy, helping everyone stay light, but still a cheerleader when he needs to be.

 

Now, if this were a video game, my last piece of reasoning wouldn't matter, but it isn't. The idea that Sox Fans have that little bit of history with Peds (i.e. the W.S. and his lead-off homer) factors in when you find the two guys more or less tied after looking at all the other factors. Now, I suppose that makes me a romatic, and probably a baseball fool, but so be it.

[Gom]

Exactly. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with using ONLY statistical analysis when looking at players?

Gom - Your strawmen get old after a while. When did I say watching the games don't mean anything? All I'm saying is statistics mean just as much' date=' something you don't believe.[/quote']

You're wrong Kilo. I think statistics are MORE important than the naked eye. However, I think watching the players is huge as well. I believe a healthy mix, maybe say...60/40 in favor of statistical analysis is probably the way to go.

 

My thing is basically this: Statistics, especially in the minors and when a player is first called up, is basically meaningless. You use the naked eye to determine someone's potential worth. The more statistics you accumulate on a player, the more meaningful statistics become and eventually overtake the naked eye in analysis at the major league level. My opinion here.

[TheKilo]

Exactly. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with using ONLY statistical analysis when looking at players?

 

You're wrong Kilo. I think statistics are MORE important than the naked eye. However, I think watching the players is huge as well. I believe a healthy mix, maybe say...60/40 in favor of statistical analysis is probably the way to go.

 

My thing is basically this: Statistics, especially in the minors and when a player is first called up, is basically meaningless. You use the naked eye to determine someone's potential worth. The more statistics you accumulate on a player, the more meaningful statistics become and eventually overtake the naked eye in analysis at the major league level. My opinion here.

 

I actually agree with you, although there are times when minor league statistics are appropriate (take Pedroia for example - he always had an adjust period at every level he played at before being called up to the next, which was why I was not concerned when he struggled to start last season). But statistics are important - and show a lot when comparing Pedroia and Cano this season.

[Mr Crunchy]

WARNIG OLD SCHOOL POST

watching certain guys on the field in certain situations gives you a feel about heart character and desire,something the stat sheets dont account for.

i never played competetive ball after babe ruth because i wasnt good enuff for my high school,i did play football and my senior class lost 2 games in 3 years,as a senior i dont think i played in the 4th quarter until thanksgiving day when the coaches gave us seniors our last hurrah so to speak,we were that f***ing good i never saw much action after halftime...the point here is some guys are born with fire and a win at all costs mentality,others are brilliantly gifted and are blessed with good fortune and yet others just dont give a s*** about anything outside their personal efforts and winning isnt as important as their performance is...those who played at any level know all 3 types....

winning easily and often tends to make us soft by nature,not all of us but most of us get soft with too much success..in the nfl more than any other sport you see vets sign on for less money for a shot at the ring,they come in burning with desire and it usually rubs off on the other guys who play on the same side of the ball,the 49ers would grab up a gary plummer,the pats grabbed up corey dillon and rodney harris and perhaps this year john lynch...if last years game was rodneys 1st superbowl do you think he allows that miracle catch or would the d lineman(seymour or warren) allow eli to escape a sure sack or would hobbs or samuel drop these gift wrapped picks that my 11 yr old daughter wouldve grabbed?..sometimes new blood,not nessesarily the best at the position but a guy with a good attitude who is into the team concept is more of an asset than the superstar who cant wait to get into the lockerroom so he can bitch to his agent about his schedule conflicts and endorsement deals..

are the yanks old guys bloated and content?

are our guys in the same frame of mind?

i lost my very last game of football at WPI to leominster in the superbowl in 3ots cause our all state back fumbled a routine handoff....25 years later i still shake my head and wonder why and how it happened after 20 straight wins....and its amongst the most painfull memories i have and it aint going away,this is high school mind you,if it was the world series or the pennant or the super bowl i may have donnie moored myself....new blood with burnin desire to win is essential for every team to keep its fire,i dont think ny has enuff of it anymore and after 4 titles in 5 years i can see why it happened,meanwhile arod has 250m in the bank...think he really gives a f***?

[example1]

I took Pedroia last year, and I'm taking him still. Of course, I expected more out of Cano than I've seen this season, but he will still have a great career.

 

Pedroia OWNS 2B at Fenway and will likely be there for a long, long time. Different personalities, dispositions and fielding positions, but Pedroia is an invaluable member of a big market team who constantly shows the right approach on the field and seems to really help his team win; a la Derek Jeter.

 

====

 

I see a lot of discussion about what happened to the Yankees.

 

The way I see it, the Yankees haven't kept up with the Red Sox because the Sox:

 

a) theorized better--having a game plan and sticking to it (acquire draft picks by letting middle-aged players go, draft power arms, train to OBP and plate control, generally use more money to sign players above slot in the draft, all relievers pitch from the stretch, etc.,)

 

scouted better--scouting opponents, scouting draftees, scouting internationally, developing international resources (training facilities in DR, relationship with Seibu Lions) finding talent for above slot draft.

 

c) signed/released players more strictly-- the Sox have a HUGE baseball budget every year, but they treated every dollar with high scrutiny. Not every move was perfect, but many of the most difficult proved to be good. They are patient and meticulous; an interesting parallel to the approach they expect of their hitters. Acquiring Beckett and Dice-K have been really beneficial and were pivotal for this franchise even though they gave up a lot to get them.

 

d) had luck bordering on dynastic: even with all the draft picks it seems really lucky that so many of them are panning out as they are. Groups of guys like Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Lowry, Buchholz, and Masterson (totaling roughly $6,105,500,--from Cot's) dont' come around that often.

 

The luck is a huge thing, but the Sox put themselves in the position where that luck can make them great. It may make Yankee fans to feel good that the Sox are as good as theya re because of the luck, but getting guys like Jeter and Mariano were what put the Yankees over the top for years and years.

[Gom]

Example....Ellsbury, Lowrie, Buchholz, and Masterson have been non-factors for the most part.

 

The Yankees haven't kept up to the Red Sox for the main reason of...

 

Cashman being an idiot.

 

All else is secondary.

[CrespoBlows]

Example....Ellsbury' date=' Lowrie, Buchholz, and Masterson have been non-factors for the most part. [/quote']

 

Buchholz, maybe. (Although he pitched good early.)

 

Ellsbury has played GG defense in CF, and was playing very good the first few months of the season. He's also off to a good start in August.

 

Lowrie has been excellent in his SSS, and has replaced Lugo at SS.

 

Masterson held the fifth starter role down exceptionally, and is the third pitcher in line in the bullpen.

[example1]

Example....Ellsbury, Lowrie, Buchholz, and Masterson have been non-factors for the most part.

 

The Yankees haven't kept up to the Red Sox for the main reason of...

 

Cashman being an idiot.

 

All else is secondary.

 

How about 'The Red Sox FO being good?'

[Mr Crunchy]

lots of luck involved as well

consider none of these young guys ever got hurt

just like billy beane in oakland,his pitchers dont get hurt till they leave oakland

[BoSox21]

just like billy beane in oakland,his pitchers dont get hurt till they leave oakland

 

Rich Harden says hi

[riverside sluggers]

Ellsbury a non factor? Him taking over center field in the playoffs was just plain huge. He was in a recent slump yes but in August he's come back strong batting .379

 

Lowrie has been a key catalyst for the top scoring team in the month of August (18 RBIs) and could hold down the shortstop position for the forseeable future

 

Masterson has really stepped up into being part of the bridge to get to Papelbon

 

Buchholz needs some fine tuning, 2009 is looking like a bounce back year as ever

[Mr Crunchy]

rich harden has had issues but out of all his draft pix i dont consider hardens time on the dl to be anything but a blip on the screen...consider mulder hudson and zito and their success in oakland and lack there of when they were dumped...luck is a vital instrument in the success of developing pitchers..

[TheKilo]

Update:

 

[table]Player|AVG.|OBP|SLG|OPS|HR|RBI|WS|RC

Cano|.269|.305|.411|.716|13|61|10|54

Pedroia|.333|.378|.505|.883|17|76|18|98[/table]

 

EQA:

Pedroia - .302

Cano - .246

 

VORP:

Pedroia - 58.5

Cano - 7.2

 

WARP1/WARP2/WARP3:

 

Pedroia: 8.6/9.1/10.2

Cano: 4.9/5.2/5.8