Who would you take Part II? Cano or Pedroia?

[Gom]

At the risk of being called a troll by some idiots, here is a more "happy" comparison:

 

Cano or Pedroia?

 

Cano is one year older at 24. Cano a slightly higher OPS [.843 to .784]. Pedroia is more of a contact hitter with a better eye, with Cano having more power. Both hit for average. I don't know much about Pedroia's fielding, someone here enlighten me, but Cano is as good as I've seen in a long time going to his right and throwing from behind the bag.

 

Who would you take for the rest of this year, and for their career?

[riverside sluggers]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7631

 

Im not sure where you got that OPS. Pedroia's OPS this year is at .840. His fielding is that he makes a lot of dives for balls and has steady hands. He made a rare error yesterday (4th on the season) after 41 consecutive games with out an error. Gold glove? No sure thing but he has to be considered

 

Cano and Pedroia are two different types of hitters. Cano has 20 HR power potential with Pedroia's peak at 10, he might have career years of 12-15 but thats the max for him.

[ORS]

I think it depends on what you want/need because they offer two distinctly different skill sets. Pedroia will get on base better and more consistently throughout his career with his IsoD. Cano will hit for more power in every category. What do you want, more bases or less outs? There's a strong case for both.

 

I think Cano has a little better range, but he also has a stronger propensity for errors. And he suffers, IMO, from a lack of focus on the field, so some of his mistakes don't even make the scorebook. The stats all back Cano as a fielder, however. Tough call for me here. The same range vs. error issue exists between Gonzo and Lugo, and despite my mind insisting that you take the guy who gets to more balls, I can recall a few Lugo errors that have been game deciders. Yesterday was one. Sure, it happened in the first, but they are up 3-2, not tied w/o that run.

[BoSox21]

its a tough call, there's pros and cons to each. Pedroia is a little more polished but Cano can be put anywhere in the lineup

[DrewDaGreat]

Pedroia because I'm a homer.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it depends on what you want/need because they offer two distinctly different skill sets. Pedroia will get on base better and more consistently throughout his career with his IsoD. Cano will hit for more power in every category. What do you want, more bases or less outs? There's a strong case for both.

 

I think Cano has a little better range, but he also has a stronger propensity for errors. And he suffers, IMO, from a lack of focus on the field, so some of his mistakes don't even make the scorebook. The stats all back Cano as a fielder, however. Tough call for me here. The same range vs. error issue exists between Gonzo and Lugo, and despite my mind insisting that you take the guy who gets to more balls, I can recall a few Lugo errors that have been game deciders. Yesterday was one. Sure, it happened in the first, but they are up 3-2, not tied w/o that run.

 

I agree. I'll go as far to say that each fits their team perfectly. Pedroia is your leadoff hitter. Average speed, good OBP skills and a solid eye, hence he fits your team best. Cano is hitting 6th/7th or even 8th for us with the potential to be a middle of the order bat. I think his OBP skills arent as important to us as his ability to drive in the runs, so he fits us best. But if you had to choose a player to start a team with, I'd assume you'd go for the guy with the most power and with the higher potential to be a middle of the order bat.

[ORS]

I agree. I'll go as far to say that each fits their team perfectly. Pedroia is your leadoff hitter. Average speed' date=' good OBP skills and a solid eye, hence he fits your team best. Cano is hitting 6th/7th or even 8th for us with the potential to be a middle of the order bat. I think his OBP skills arent as important to us as his ability to drive in the runs, so he fits us best. But if you had to choose a player to start a team with, I'd assume you'd go for the guy with the most power and with the higher potential to be a middle of the order bat.[/quote']

That's the thing, though, when do you start a team from scratch? Expansion drafts is the only thing that comes to mind. So, the decision for me would be dependent, like it is in real life, on the rest of the roster and what the team approach is. While Pedroia is a good fit, this year's Sox could use some more XBH ability with Manny and Papi coming up relatively lame thus far. And, this year's Yankees could use some more OBP at the top of the lineup. It really isn't an easy choice.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's the thing' date=' though, when do you start a team from scratch? Expansion drafts is the only thing that comes to mind. So, the decision for me would be dependent, like it is in real life, on the rest of the roster and what the team approach is. While Pedroia is a good fit, this year's Sox could use some more XBH ability with Manny and Papi coming up relatively lame thus far. And, this year's Yankees could use some more OBP at the top of the lineup. It really isn't an easy choice.[/quote']

 

Very true.

[yankees228]

I think it depends on what you want/need because they offer two distinctly different skill sets. Pedroia will get on base better and more consistently throughout his career with his IsoD. Cano will hit for more power in every category. What do you want, more bases or less outs? There's a strong case for both.

 

I think Cano has a little better range, but he also has a stronger propensity for errors. And he suffers, IMO, from a lack of focus on the field, so some of his mistakes don't even make the scorebook. The stats all back Cano as a fielder, however. Tough call for me here. The same range vs. error issue exists between Gonzo and Lugo, and despite my mind insisting that you take the guy who gets to more balls, I can recall a few Lugo errors that have been game deciders. Yesterday was one. Sure, it happened in the first, but they are up 3-2, not tied w/o that run.

 

I agree with everything you've said except the focus part. I think Cano has corrected that problem.

[ORS]

I'll agree with you when I see some more solid fundamentals from Cano in the field. He's an extremely smooth fielder, but he does a lot of things that just aren't fundamentally sound. He can get away with it due to his natural talent, but that doesn't mean he's fixed it.

[CrespoBlows]

I'd give the slight edge to Cano, because of his glove. They're pretty much a wash offensively. Pedroia's .040 points in OBP is probably worth more than Cano's .050 points in SLG%, but probably not much more.

 

Every fielding metric I've looked at, has Cano as a very good defensive player. Pedroia rates as average to above average. I'd say Cano is probably worth an extra win, at the most.

[yankees228]

I'll agree with you when I see some more solid fundamentals from Cano in the field. He's an extremely smooth fielder' date=' but he does a lot of things that just aren't fundamentally sound. He can get away with it due to his natural talent, but that doesn't mean he's fixed it.[/quote']

 

That fair, it is purely an opinion thing, and not really worth arguing.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Really really close this season between the two. Their overall offensive production is really closer. I haven't seen Cano play that often and Pedroia is a pretty sound defender out there. Too close to call right now, I dont think you could go wrong with either.

[Gom]

So this thread isn't trolling?

 

LOL!

 

Glad to see that this thread has created a meaningful discussion. I would have to say I would take Cano over Pedroia. I am tough on players unless they do it for more than one year, I would have to see Pedroia do it again next year to be convinced. Too many one year wonders.

 

As it is, I think that Pedroia will be a better version of Eckstein. One of those gamers, the gritty type player. Cano reminds me of a young Carew, with more power, and not as good an eye. He has that sweet swing Carew had.

 

Both players are solid, but I think Cano will have the better career.

[example1]

I'll agree with you when I see some more solid fundamentals from Cano in the field. He's an extremely smooth fielder' date=' but he does a lot of things that just aren't fundamentally sound. He can get away with it due to his natural talent, but that doesn't mean he's fixed it.[/quote']

 

You wrote a comment earlier in the year about Cano becoming the type of player where it will just be "Cano being Cano", like "Manny being Manny". I lauged at the time, but have seen a lot of what you are talking about.

 

Personally, I think that in time Pedroia will be seen as a + defender, and a very good #2 hitter, one of the best in the league, behind Ellsbury in the lineup.

 

I haven't seen Cano make that many superior-routine plays (high choppers over the mound, charging the ball, throws to second, etc.,) whereas Pedroia seems to make them every other day. I haven't seen a 2B in a long time who is as aggressive defensively as Pedroia--he almost always gets the out at 2B on choppers with men on 1st, when the "smart" (i.e., reasonable to expect success) play is to 1B. He gets them almost every time.

 

Overall, a though choice. I'm taking Pedroia because I feel that he will bump his HR totals over time. He's a rookie, for Christsakes, and he has a more than respectable OPS (without much power) and will provide + defense in a position that is pretty high up the ol' defensive spectrum.

 

Cano is a very, very good hitter, and left handed, which should increase his stats over time.

[Gom]

I have to say, Cano falls asleep while playing like Manny does sometimes, but he always hustles. However, he makes that play to his right better than any secondbaseman in baseball. If he gets to the ball over the bag, you're out, even if your name is Ichiro. He has as strong an arm at second in the game.

[He Hate Me]

btw how is it that a man as small as Pedroia has so few steals? is he that slow?

 

Cano sometimes has trouble with the routine plays, and he did have a focus issue early on this year IMO.

 

I'd take him over Dustin because while Pedroia has a chance to be a consistent .310 Avg, .400 OPS guy (which is excellent). I see Cano as eventually developing 30 HR power, and perennial batting champ contender, all the while improviing his OBP every year.

[example1]

So this thread isn't trolling?

 

LOL!

 

Glad to see that this thread has created a meaningful discussion. I would have to say I would take Cano over Pedroia. I am tough on players unless they do it for more than one year, I would have to see Pedroia do it again next year to be convinced. Too many one year wonders.

 

As it is, I think that Pedroia will be a better version of Eckstein. One of those gamers, the gritty type player. Cano reminds me of a young Carew, with more power, and not as good an eye. He has that sweet swing Carew had.

 

Both players are solid, but I think Cano will have the better career.

 

Pedroia kept a .392 OBP throughout his minor league career. I wouldn't call that a one-year-wonder. He was the NCAA defensive player of the year and has made enough big plays this season for me to say "yup, he SHOULD have been defensive player of the year". there are lots of players who are one-year-wonders, but I don't think that either of these guys fit that category. You will be seeing plenty of both for years to come.

 

I'll take Pedroia's plus defense and plus fielding over Cano's power and decent defense.

[example1]

btw how is it that a man as small as Pedroia has so few steals? is he that slow?

 

Cano sometimes has trouble with the routine plays, and he did have a focus issue early on this year IMO.

 

I'd take him over Dustin because while Pedroia has a chance to be a consistent .310 Avg, .400 OPS guy (which is excellent). I see Cano as eventually developing 30 HR power, and perennial batting champ contender, all the while improviing his OBP every year.

 

Yes, but groudballs between his legs will cost them games. He's a GREAT player, but at 2B I want consistency both in the field and at the plate. Cano's .348 career OBP (with a .316 avg) tells me he isn't as consistent as one would like.

 

This is a tough one...

 

EDIT: also, yes, Pedroia is not very fast. He has okay speed, but nothing to write home about. he is the quintessential #2 hitter IMO.

[He Hate Me]

Yes, but groudballs between his legs will cost them games. He's a GREAT player, but at 2B I want consistency both in the field and at the plate. Cano's .348 career OBP (with a .316 avg) tells me he isn't as consistent as one would like.

 

This is a tough one...

 

EDIT: also, yes, Pedroia is not very fast. He has okay speed, but nothing to write home about. he is the quintessential #2 hitter IMO.

 

balls that get by a fielder (whether routine or spectacular)are still balls that get by a fielder .

 

Cano's walks has gone up every year in the bigs and I expect that number to rise. As a small sampling size he actually walked 3 times in a game couple of games ago. Its seeing things like that which gives me hope for his continued improvement and development as a premier hitter.

 

Dustin's having a fine year though, and 24 doubles are nothing to sneeze at.

 

I just think that when you take into account how many 2B can hit like Cano, that gives him the edge IMO. I wouldn't be disappointed at all with Dustin though

[Rdsxmbnt]

So this thread isn't trolling?

 

LOL!

 

Not that I have to explain this since you know exactly why you started that other thread, but this thread actually asks a legit question. Where was the Farnsworth > Gagne thread when he first got here?

[Gom]

Not that I have to explain this since you know exactly why you started that other thread' date=' but this thread actually asks a legit question. Where was the Farnsworth > Gagne thread when he first got here?[/quote']

 

It wasn't, but did anyone, and I mean anyone here foresee Gagne's utter collapse in his first two weeks with the Sox? Considering how badly he's pitched, the comparison is legitimate. It's kind of like comparing the two fattest girls you had sex with. You hope one of them is cute if she loses weight.

[Rdsxmbnt]

It wasn't' date=' but did anyone, and I mean anyone here foresee Gagne's utter collapse in his first two weeks with the Sox? Considering how badly he's pitched, the comparison is legitimate. It's kind of like comparing the two fattest girls you had sex with. You hope one of them is cute if she loses weight.[/quote']

 

how would you explain Wang's utter colapse over his past 2.2 innings or so? Does Jeff Weaver start to enter the picture here?

[Gom]

how would you explain Wang's utter colapse over his past 2.2 innings or so? Does Jeff Weaver start to enter the picture here?

 

What's his numbers over the last EIGHT appearances?

 

Any pitcher can have a bad game. When you blow in four straight appearances with your new team, it's a different situation. Beckett can get bombed next game. So what? If he gets knocked out 3 starts in a row, you worry, don't you?

[Rdsxmbnt]

What's his numbers over the last EIGHT appearances?

 

Any pitcher can have a bad game. When you blow in four straight appearances with your new team, it's a different situation. Beckett can get bombed next game. So what? If he gets knocked out 3 starts in a row, you worry, don't you?

 

Sure, but 4 innings is 4 innings, no matter how bad its way too small a sample size. Farnsworth came to the Yankees and has been a bad MR, he had a good 2005 before he came here but his numbers since joining the organization look a lot more like 2004 than 2005, not to mention his strikeout numbers have completely dropped off this season. Gagne was a franchise CL in his Dodger days, got injured and came back with Texas and threw nearly 30 quality innings. I saw him multiple times pitch against us and a couple other teams and looked very good, notably his breaking pitches. I think he's proven a lot in his career and this season that no matter how bad he has looked that he shouldn't be written off for 2007. Just because he's had a bad debut so far doesn't mean he's completely fallen off the map and turned into a Farnsworth. If it continues all season we'll see but I see no reason why he can't be the pitcher we traded for.

 

EDIT: and obviously I have no worries that Wang will return to form, but the point stands that the sample is way too small. Heck even Rivera had a 12.15 ERA after his first 8 appearances in 07' and hes bounced back more than good.

[Gom]

True. How did this thread turn into Farnsworth and Gagne, though? LOL!

[TheKilo]

I'd take Robbie by a hair, but I love Dustin as a player.

[See Red]

I take Pedroia just because I can't bring myself to cheer for Cano. He comes off as being so cocky and unlikable. But if that wasn't a factor I'd take Cano. But who knows, he's had an over extra years worth of Big League playing time under his belt, who knows by the time Pedroia gets to that point.

[example1]

It wasn't' date=' but did anyone, and I mean anyone here foresee Gagne's utter collapse in his first two weeks with the Sox? Considering how badly he's pitched, the comparison is legitimate. It's kind of like comparing the two fattest girls you had sex with. You hope one of them is cute if she loses weight.[/quote']

 

You have sex with fat girls? GIRLS? I understand one, but why keep it up, unless you're into that sort of thing?? sorry, couldn't help it.

[example1]

What's his numbers over the last EIGHT appearances?

 

Any pitcher can have a bad game. When you blow in four straight appearances with your new team, it's a different situation. Beckett can get bombed next game. So what? If he gets knocked out 3 starts in a row, you worry, don't you?

 

Beckett got shelled last year, and he's a Cy Young candidate this year.

 

Rivera blew the lead tonight, and almost blew it last night. He had a horrible start to the season. You're not giving up on him, right? Why? Track record.

 

Overall, Gagne gave up a big homerun to Miguel Tejada (not the first to do that) and gave up runs to a streaking Balitmore team... a la Mariano Rivera tonight. I just don't think it is that big a deal. s*** happens and he's having a hard time finding his role and his groove. he will.