Jacoby Ellsbury

[jacksonianmarch]

Congrats kid on your 1st major league hit. I saw him last night in Pawtucket, maybe it will be the last time he plays for the pawsox.

[ANiMAL]

Jacoby was brought up too early. The Red Sox are not desperate and do not need him. We are up by 10.5 games in 1st; there is no need for prospects to be playing in Boston at this moment.

 

On the other hand according to Remy, this is part of his training to become an everyday player in Boston.

[riverside sluggers]

Crisp's thumb injury might be more serious than originally thought, and its obvious that the Sox wanted a more defensive minded player that can play center than Wily Mo. As Jerry had pointed out in the pre-game

[a700hitter]

Crisp's thumb injury might be more serious than originally thought' date=' and its obvious that the Sox wanted a more defensive minded player that can play center than Wily Mo. As Jerry had pointed out in the pre-game[/quote']They have been struggling to get Wily Mo playing time and then they start the kid over him while Crisp is injured. It makes no sense to me especially since the team has had trouble scoring runs of late and WMP is capable of hitting a bomb when he is not k'ing. I have to wonder what else is at work here. Do they think this kid can take CF at the ML level this year? Is there some sort of trade in the works for Ellsbury and they are showcasing him? Are they considering trading Crisp or WMP, and they want to see if the kid can handle the majors as a 4th OF?

[riverside sluggers]

I think a trade in the works is a viable possibility. The bullpen has worked hard as of late, so when one of them (Pineiro) goes down they call up an extra outfielder?

[a700hitter]

I think a trade in the works is a viable possibility. The bullpen has worked hard as of late' date=' so when one of them (Pineiro) goes down they call up an extra outfielder?[/quote']it doesn't add up.

[castigs850]

i think the point is that it doesnt add up. that leaves some room for speculation for things going on behind the scenes in the FO. i.e. a trade

[Teddyballgame10]

Should keep him down, hes only hitting .277 in AAA dont rush it we have a 10 gmae lead, give WMP more time.

[ksushi]

Bringing up hitters pre-maturely is a lot less detrimental to their development than pitchers, provided you can get them regular AB's. Look at Jose Reyes, he was brought up waaaaayyy to early when he was like 20. Hit something like .250 - .260 in his sophmore season shortened by injury and came back and hit .270 the next year and that was low for a guy who was projected to do big things. Well with regular playing time, he progressed and is now absolutely f***in' awesome.

 

Pitchers can get roughed up bad and not really come back to regain form for whatever reason. I'm not worried about them exposing Ellsbury to the majors too early. I think he's fine. I do think there has to be a trade in the works. Either they are pulling a showcase and having Ellsbury up before including him in a deal (ala Hanley Ramirez the season before he was dealt) or perhaps they've asked Crisp not to play through the injury because a deal is being discussed?

[Soxfan1]

Jacoby was brought up too early. The Red Sox are not desperate and do not need him. We are up by 10.5 games in 1st; there is no need for prospects to be playing in Boston at this moment.

 

On the other hand according to Remy, this is part of his training to become an everyday player in Boston.

I don't think they are bringing him up to early at all. They are just playing him temporarily to let him get the feel of the major leagues. Easy way to showcase him in case we need him at the deadline.

 

And this kid is mad fast.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

And this kid is mad fast.

 

...just ask Michael Young.

[example1]

Bringing up hitters pre-maturely is a lot less detrimental to their development than pitchers, provided you can get them regular AB's. Look at Jose Reyes, he was brought up waaaaayyy to early when he was like 20. Hit something like .250 - .260 in his sophmore season shortened by injury and came back and hit .270 the next year and that was low for a guy who was projected to do big things. Well with regular playing time, he progressed and is now absolutely f***in' awesome.

 

Pitchers can get roughed up bad and not really come back to regain form for whatever reason. I'm not worried about them exposing Ellsbury to the majors too early. I think he's fine. I do think there has to be a trade in the works. Either they are pulling a showcase and having Ellsbury up before including him in a deal (ala Hanley Ramirez the season before he was dealt) or perhaps they've asked Crisp not to play through the injury because a deal is being discussed?

 

I agree in the hitter vs. pitcher thing. He's fine to bring up right now. He's fine to bring up any time. He knows he's a damn good athelete and he knows where he belongs.

 

I disagree,however, about Hanley Ramirez vs. Ellsbury and being traded. If I recall, Hanley was brought up when the roster was expanded to 40 at the end of the year. It is just now July and Ellsbury is up. Also, why would they bring Ellsbury up to showcase his skills? It isn't like whatever potential GM wants to find Ellsbury can't find a recording of him playing at AAA, or send a scout or twelve to watch him play. Any start he has--whether good or bad--will be taken with the 'small sample size grain of salt'.

 

If there is a deal somewhere it could be one that makes Ellsbury need to come up and contribute sooner than later.

 

Or we're reading way too much into it. :dunno:

[Rdsxmbnt]

 

Or we're reading way too much into it. :dunno:

 

correct

[a700hitter]

Three games in a row and no WMP. They must be looking to dump him.

[TedWilliams101]

Yea, they brought Jacoby up too early. 2 for 2 with 2 walks, a SB, 2RS, and scoring on a pass ball from 2nd. He's definitely not ready...

[SCM33]

Yea' date=' they brought Jacoby up too early. 2 for 2 with 2 walks, a SB, 2RS, and scoring on a pass ball from 2nd. He's definitely not ready...[/quote']

 

Small sample size says hello. He did wonderful at Portland, was more mediocre at PAW and has started nicely over his first couple games. Lets not get too ramped up here. If he goes 0-4 2morrow hes hitting about .210 since he has like all of 10 ABs so far.

 

Couple of things ive noticed about him.

1. Makes excellent contact.

2. Looks a little overmatched. What I mean by that is big league pitchers stuff eats him up so he is indecisive about whether or not to swing the bat. Looks like he is struggling with pitch reognition. Either way, he was not hitting with much pop in the minors this season either and I think that is more of a product of him needing to develop more. I think he will eventually develop a swing much like Damons....short, quick and compact which will allow him to hit double digit HRs. Right now I think he is a little overmatched.

 

Either way, I think hes done a nice job. As bad as some of the swings are that he has taken he has still gotten the bat on the ball which is more than half the battle. You can develop power, but if you just cant make contact you are sometimes cooked before you even step in the Box (WMP says hello).

[example1]

Small sample size says hello. He did wonderful at Portland, was more mediocre at PAW and has started nicely over his first couple games. Lets not get too ramped up here. If he goes 0-4 2morrow hes hitting about .210 since he has like all of 10 ABs so far.

 

Couple of things ive noticed about him.

1. Makes excellent contact.

2. Looks a little overmatched.

 

This was nearly the exact same rap on Dustin Pedroia, roughly 10 months ago and throughout the offseason. No matter how much some of us tried, people would not get off his back, talking about how he looked like he was overmatched and swinging for the fences, while also making good contact. His minor league numbers speak for themselves. If you are talking about a guy who makes excellent contact despite looking overmatched, then you're talking about a guy who will hit linedrives and hard groundballs when he's comfortable. This guy is an amazing athelete and has been successful at every level and he will be successful at the MLB level soon. There is a reason that many scouting sites and experts claim that he could be the Sox CF by the 08 season.

 

What I mean by that is big league pitchers stuff eats him up so he is indecisive about whether or not to swing the bat. Looks like he is struggling with pitch reognition.

 

He looks like he is pressing to not waste his ABs while also wanting to rip the ball. Sox hitters are notorious for taking the first pitch and pitches not right in their zone. Ellsbury is a sox hitter, through and through. Again, Pedroia does the same thing.

 

Either way, he was not hitting with much pop in the minors this season either and I think that is more of a product of him needing to develop more. I think he will eventually develop a swing much like Damons....short, quick and compact which will allow him to hit double digit HRs. Right now I think he is a little overmatched.

 

Ellsbury has a .430 SLG in the minors this season to go with his .390 OBP. That gives him an OPS of .826. Ichiro has a career .380/.440/.820 OPS. I think Ellsbury is quite a bit faster than Damon. Ichiro could be a better comparison, with a lower AVG.

 

Pat Casey (Oregon State Head Coach) said this about him last week:

 

Johnny Damon is a great player," Casey said yesterday. "But Jacoby Ellsbury is going to be a superstar player. I love the comparison, but Jacoby Ellsbury's ceiling is even higher. I say this with all respect in the world for what Johnny Damon has done, but this guy is going to be a superstar."

 

That's a two-time College World Series coach saying that.

 

 

Either way, I think hes done a nice job. As bad as some of the swings are that he has taken he has still gotten the bat on the ball which is more than half the battle. You can develop power, but if you just cant make contact you are sometimes cooked before you even step in the Box (WMP says hello).

 

 

The only place we really disagree is whether he's ready yet.

[CrespoBlows]

Pat Casey (Oregon State Head Coach) said this about him last week:

 

Johnny Damon is a great player," Casey said yesterday. "But Jacoby Ellsbury is going to be a superstar player. I love the comparison, but Jacoby Ellsbury's ceiling is even higher. I say this with all respect in the world for what Johnny Damon has done, but this guy is going to be a superstar."

 

That's a two-time College World Series coach saying that.

 

 

You don't think his statement is a bit biased?

[SCM33]

Example1....

I dont think we necessarily disagree on any front, because what I was getting at is that all of what you mentioned will solve itself once he gets adaquete time at all levels before coming to the show. I think he needs a little more time to polish himself off at AAA, but besides that Ive been pleased with what I have seen.

[example1]

 

You don't think his statement is a bit biased?

 

My guess is that someone with his reputation and ability to judge talent those are meaningful words. He wasn't like "Jacoby will be pretty good" he said he will be a superstar. He didn't mince words and isn't one for hyperbole and exaggeration.

[example1]

Example1....

I dont think we necessarily disagree on any front, because what I was getting at is that all of what you mentioned will solve itself once he gets adaquete time at all levels before coming to the show. I think he needs a little more time to polish himself off at AAA, but besides that Ive been pleased with what I have seen.

 

The polish he needs is the same polish that every MLB player ultimately needs. Let's give it to him now so that the runs and SBs he gets count for the Sox, not the PawSox.

[CrespoBlows]

My guess is that someone with his reputation and ability to judge talent those are meaningful words. He wasn't like "Jacoby will be pretty good" he said he will be a superstar. He didn't mince words and isn't one for hyperbole and exaggeration.

 

The guy suggested Ellsbury should have been the CF in 2006, in December of 2005.

 

He's prone to bias.

 

That being said, I think Ellsbury will be very good, but a superstar? Can't say that.

[example1]

let him get into his prime, in a big league setting, with a big league weight program and natural maturity. we will see what his upside is in a few years.

[jacksonianmarch]

let him get into his prime' date=' in a big league setting, with a big league weight program and natural maturity. we will see what his upside is in a few years.[/quote']

 

unless he roids out for a few yrs, I dont see him having any more than 10 homers in a yr. His swing reminds me a little of Kapler from the left side, but he makes contact a whole lot more.

[BSN07]

unless he roids out for a few yrs' date=' I dont see him having any more than 10 homers in a yr. His swing reminds me a little of Kapler from the left side, but he makes contact a whole lot more.[/quote']

 

I love how he's been compared to Johnny Damon and other good ML OF's, and Jackson compares him to Kapler...<_>

[jacksonianmarch]

I love how he's been compared to Johnny Damon and other good ML OF's' date=' and Jackson compares him to Kapler...<_>

 

by swing only.

[BSN07]

by swing only.

 

LOL ok, but you see where I was coming from right?

[jacksonianmarch]

LOL ok' date=' but you see where I was coming from right?[/quote']

 

 

I do. Ellsbury is twice the player Kapler ever was. More speed, better arm, and his dives actually get him close to a baseball. He also has better contact. But his swing reminds me of Kapler, thats all.

[rician blast]

 

You don't think his statement is a bit biased?

 

 

Biased? no, the guy wouldn't throw out a statement like that just because of his bias.

 

Premature? Yes, takes balls to make a statement like that and all too often it comes back to bite a guy later.

 

I don't see any need for a statement that strong.

[jacksonianmarch]

 

You don't think his statement is a bit biased?

 

hugely biased. He can have his opinions. I dont think Ellsbury has the power potential of Damon. Hence, I dont think he will surpass the "in his prime" Johnny Damon.