April 11th vs. Seattle

[HeadOfSoxNation]

he got a rousing ovation when Drew broke up the no-no.

 

Good...very well deserved.

[jacksonianmarch]

Orel Hershiser called Youkilis one of the best contact hitters in the game. Does he know Youk K'd 120 times last yr?

[a700hitter]

I think the fact that he only struck out six speaks volumes to what he can do. Last yr he got into trouble going for the K. By pitching to semi-contact tonight' date=' he lasted all 9 innings and was still unhittable. I'd take a CG 6K performance over a 7IP 14K performance any day of the week.[/quote']he important thing for him is to become consistent whether he k's 6 or 12 per game.

[jacksonianmarch]

he important thing for him is to become consistent whether he k's 6 or 12 per game.

 

with his stuff, he will have games where he is trying to pitch to contact and the other team just cannot make contact. He lasted 8 on opening day, so he was doing something right. I am just not sure I have ever seen a nose to toes curve in the mid 80s before. Or a sharp slider that has the bottom drop out at 93mph. And the pitch I was most impressed with he threw maybe 5 times. His 85mph changeup was like a screwbie. This guy has nintendo type stuff. It really is aweinspiring.

[Thumper]

Apparently Dice K wasn't so hot tonight so I was told.

[example1]

with his stuff' date=' he will have games where he is trying to pitch to contact and the other team just cannot make contact. He lasted 8 on opening day, so he was doing something right. I am just not sure I have ever seen a nose to toes curve in the mid 80s before. Or a sharp slider that has the bottom drop out at 93mph. And the pitch I was most impressed with he threw maybe 5 times. His 85mph changeup was like a screwbie. This guy has nintendo type stuff. It really is aweinspiring.[/quote']

 

He gave up 5 or more runs 7 times last year. He gave up more hits than innings pitched last year. In 9 out of his 31 starts he didn't get past the 5th inning. He's not yet the best pitcher the world has ever seen; he's just looked like it the past 2 starts. I'm not saying this guy isn't tremendous. I've been raving about him for years (given that I live in the Pac NW we have heard plenty about him and I watched his first spring training starts a few years ago). He's an absolute beast. Very impressive.

 

He's 21 years old. Also very impressive.

 

I'm not willing to give him a hall of fame induction like so many of you seem to be though. First, (as a700 said) he needs more consistency. Like I said, he wasn't terribly consistently last year and his ability to shut down two thus-far largely impotent offenses this early in the season--though impressive--doesn't get him a cy young. Second, he needs to stay healthy.

 

Jacksonian, you're absolutely right. He has great size and a really nice and easy motion that makes that 95 mph heater very tough to hit. Never seen a nose to toes curve in the mid 80's? Think harder... Hmmm....

 

Yes, we've heard this before about a certain Red Sox pitcher.

 

Felix has the body? How about Beckett?

 

Felix: 6-3, 220

Beckett: 6-5, 222

 

You all saw Beckett when he was a fresh faced 23 year old pitching against the Yankees in the playoffs. He threw a game like Felix did today, on a bigger stage. He is strong, has a smooth motion, throws 3 pitches that buckle-knees or break bats. Two days ago he threw a 2 hitter that looked a whole lot like Felix today, giving up two hits (and a run) in the beginning of the 3rd and nothing afterward, throwing 84 pitches through 7 and certainly could have completed the game if not for the blowout.

 

In 2006 Beckett had a better WHIP, BAA and Opp OBP--in a bad year. Both of them struggled at times, and we all know about Beckett's HR problems, but given their respective talents and starts this season I see no reason to hand a cy young to felix hernandez quite yet.

 

Due to his age Felix is the better value pitcher, but their body types, deliveries and inconsistencies are similar as are their obvious dominance at a very young age. Beckett encountered relatively minor injuries that nagged him and hopefully Felix can avoid those as he ages. I see a lot of similarities there and don't put Felix on some pedestal that nobody else can touch.

[example1]

Apparently Dice K wasn't so hot tonight so I was told.

 

He gave up 3 runs in 7 innings. He wasn't bad at all. The story of the night certainly wasn't that Dice was bad. Felix was better. Felix had the most dominant performance of the night throughout baseball without a doubt.

[example1]

Orel Hershiser called Youkilis one of the best contact hitters in the game. Does he know Youk K'd 120 times last yr?

 

I would call Jeter a tremendous contact hitter, but he K'd 117 times two seasons ago and 102 times last season. They both work counts and get into situations where a K is possible more often than other hitters do. Of course, I would say Jeter makes better contact than Youk so Orel was a little off there regardless. Still, you can be a high K guy and still make good contact. If they were both afraid of striking out I bet they would just swing earlier and make contact. :dunno:

[TedWilliams101]

Felix had probably the most dominant performance of the year so far. That was unbelievable. If only it was Dice-K that we were talking about. O well. It's one game. I'm sure plenty of fans will see this as Dice-K not getting the job done. He looked fine and will only get better.

 

To tell you the truth, I was kind of rooting for Felix by the 8th. I figured either we make a comeback and win the game, or I wanna see a no hitter. Almost... If you going to lose, might as well get beat by something impressive and rare.

[BSN07]

Tough loss for the Sox last night, quality start from Dice-K was encouraging tho, they just ran into a stud pitcher tonight who could probably throw a no-no in any game when hes on. I tip my hat to him an look to the next game and hope Wake has an outing like his last and the Sox don't give it away by not backing him up with some runs.

 

 

I know its still early, but remember the days of not being shut out until like 2 months into the season? Now we have 2 or so in the first 10 games... not that i'm too worried but if the offense is an issuse for too long I think a deal will be made for someone with a bat, no clue who or what position, I just don't see the FO not pulling the trigger this year to get help....

[Cocos Disciples]

he got a rousing ovation when Drew broke up the no-no.

 

Not really...it seemed the fans were more ecstatic/relieved that there would be no no hitter than cheering for Felix.

[jacksonianmarch]

He gave up 5 or more runs 7 times last year. He gave up more hits than innings pitched last year. In 9 out of his 31 starts he didn't get past the 5th inning. He's not yet the best pitcher the world has ever seen; he's just looked like it the past 2 starts. I'm not saying this guy isn't tremendous. I've been raving about him for years (given that I live in the Pac NW we have heard plenty about him and I watched his first spring training starts a few years ago). He's an absolute beast. Very impressive.

 

He's 21 years old. Also very impressive.

 

I'm not willing to give him a hall of fame induction like so many of you seem to be though. First, (as a700 said) he needs more consistency. Like I said, he wasn't terribly consistently last year and his ability to shut down two thus-far largely impotent offenses this early in the season--though impressive--doesn't get him a cy young. Second, he needs to stay healthy.

 

Jacksonian, you're absolutely right. He has great size and a really nice and easy motion that makes that 95 mph heater very tough to hit. Never seen a nose to toes curve in the mid 80's? Think harder... Hmmm....

 

Yes, we've heard this before about a certain Red Sox pitcher.

 

Felix has the body? How about Beckett?

 

Felix: 6-3, 220

Beckett: 6-5, 222

 

You all saw Beckett when he was a fresh faced 23 year old pitching against the Yankees in the playoffs. He threw a game like Felix did today, on a bigger stage. He is strong, has a smooth motion, throws 3 pitches that buckle-knees or break bats. Two days ago he threw a 2 hitter that looked a whole lot like Felix today, giving up two hits (and a run) in the beginning of the 3rd and nothing afterward, throwing 84 pitches through 7 and certainly could have completed the game if not for the blowout.

 

In 2006 Beckett had a better WHIP, BAA and Opp OBP--in a bad year. Both of them struggled at times, and we all know about Beckett's HR problems, but given their respective talents and starts this season I see no reason to hand a cy young to felix hernandez quite yet.

 

Due to his age Felix is the better value pitcher, but their body types, deliveries and inconsistencies are similar as are their obvious dominance at a very young age. Beckett encountered relatively minor injuries that nagged him and hopefully Felix can avoid those as he ages. I see a lot of similarities there and don't put Felix on some pedestal that nobody else can touch.

 

the comparisons to Beckett are way off. For one, Beckett throws a 4FB and a curve as his main pitches. His change is secondary. Really, only 3 pitches coming your way. Felix throws 5 and locates them all. Plus, Felix throws a few mph harder.

[BSN07]

Felix is a stud with a huge upside and looks like he might be coming into his own... Seattle has handled him well as far as work load is considered... most teams usally botch this effort.... Felix has the potential to be un-hittable every time out like Pedro or Santanna, Beckett has the upside to be a solid #1 but I'm not sure hes in the same tier as Santanna(present) or Pedro circa 99, but maybe if he gets the change working and develops a splitter or slider or something else he could enter that tier, I'm happy with his work thus far in his first two starts tho, id happily take it over alot of pitchers out there...

[BSN07]

Jacko looks like you might see Hughes sooner then later with all the pitchers in your starting rotation droping like flyies.... Is Pavonoitits contagious? Maybe it was a bad idea to have him around everyone!LOL Don't worry maybe they can get Al Leiter to come out of retirement LOL

[jacksonianmarch]

Jacko looks like you might see Hughes sooner then later with all the pitchers in your starting rotation droping like flyies.... Is Pavonoitits contagious? Maybe it was a bad idea to have him around everyone!LOL Don't worry maybe they can get Al Leiter to come out of retirement LOL

 

I think we see Hughes when we plan to keep him in the majors for good. Right now, we actually dont need a 5th starter until the 21st (9 days from now) against you guys at the Fens. Wang could be ready by then.

[BSN07]

I think we see Hughes when we plan to keep him in the majors for good. Right now' date=' we actually dont need a 5th starter until the 21st (9 days from now) against you guys at the Fens. Wang could be ready by then.[/quote']

 

 

True, but if he has a set back and Mussina ends up worse off then expected then he might be up sooner then later, What are the saying about Moose and his injury?

[Gom]

What the hell does twice the pitcher mean? I mean, seriously? Whereas dice K could win 18 games Felix could win 36? If Dice gets a 2.80 ERA Felix will have a 1.4? I don't get what you're saying.

 

I certainly would say that Felix has more tools and the frame to be the best pitcher in a long, long time.

 

I think you're underestimating DiceK's stamina a little bit. Size doesn't matter as much as mechanics and conditioning. I see no concerns for Felix at this point.

 

There is also a whole lot to be said for poise and the ability to pitch, instead of throw. Again, Felix seems to have it all right now but Dice is known as a big game pitcher and has proven it time and time again.

 

I assume (and not in a passive-aggressive way) that you would happily trade Phil Hughes for Felix at this point, right? It makes sense that you would.

 

I'm not so high on this Hughes guy, as you may have noticed, I don't buy into front office hype, no matter the team. He doesn't have that great a fastball, and I view him as a rich man's version of Beckett.

 

I would trade him for Felix, Halladay, Santana, etc. Maybe I'm setting the bar too high. Pretty much any pitcher in the top 20 in either league. Hughes will go the way of Generation X of the Mets. The best move the Yankees should do is trade this guy while his stock is high.

[Optimist]

Wow.

 

That's really all that can be said about last night.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not so high on this Hughes guy' date=' as you may have noticed, I don't buy into front office hype, no matter the team. [b']He doesn't have that great a fastball[/b], and I view him as a rich man's version of Beckett.

 

I would trade him for Felix, Halladay, Santana, etc. Maybe I'm setting the bar too high. Pretty much any pitcher in the top 20 in either league. Hughes will go the way of Generation X of the Mets. The best move the Yankees should do is trade this guy while his stock is high.

 

you are basing this off his 3 appearances in ST, which were all early?

 

Cmon now Gom, this isnt hype. Check the stats. Check the radar reads at his starts. Kid throws mid 90s consistently. He has a 5 pitch arsenal unlike Beckett. And he is young, real young. There have been plenty of yankee prospects who have been overhyped in the past, but this kid has backed it up with performance and stuff. I expect him to be good early and blossom into an ace.

[jacksonianmarch]

True' date=' but if he has a set back and Mussina ends up worse off then expected then he might be up sooner then later, What are the saying about Moose and his injury?[/quote']

 

Moose said that he didnt pull it, he just strained it a bit. He has a history with strains/pulls and says that this one is not bad. He expects to miss one start, but says he will avoid the DL. We'll see what Cash thinks of that plan.

[ORS]

Five pitch arsenal? The crack must be strong today. Latest reports I've read tout his change as a work in progress, and he hasn't touched the slider in a couple of years now. He's a FB/curve pitcher right now, just like JB.

[example1]

the comparisons to Beckett are way off. For one' date=' Beckett throws a 4FB and a curve as his main pitches. His change is secondary. Really, only 3 pitches coming your way. Felix throws 5 and locates them all. Plus, Felix throws a few mph harder.[/quote']

 

After reading this I got up and looked it up. I looked at SportingNews baseball preview: Felix throws tremendous fastball, curveball, change. I looked at Baseball Prospectus 2006: Felix throws fastball, curveball, change. ESPN lists it as fastball, curve, slider, change.

 

That's not 5.

 

Here's an unofficial list of guys who have hit 100mph on the gun. Beckett is there, Felix is not. Again, its unofficial and I"m sure Felix should be included. I think Felix throws as hard as Beckett but you're grasping at straws to say that the reason Felix is better is because his fastball is harder. Nobody says Beckett needs to throw harder to be better. Beckett regularly throws 1-2 mph harder than Papelbon, and Papelbon makes people look silly with his FB. He needs to do what he started doing this year: throwing offspeed stuff early in the count for strikes to keep hitters off balance. Just what Felix did last night.

 

I think my comparison of the two isn't just good, I think it is right on. You pointed to Felix's size (beckett's bigger), his nose-to-toes curve (beckett's is just as nasty) and his velocity (a wash). Again, the only thing Felix has on him is a little bit better control and he's younger. He's not some other worldly pitcher who nobody else can touch, despite what you saw yesterday.

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

[BoSox21]

a good fastball is less about speed than about location and action on the ball. That's what makes Papelbon's FB more effective than Beckett's

 

but Felix was just sick yesterday. great FB, unbelievable curve and a slider that just fell off the table

[jacksonianmarch]

After reading this I got up and looked it up. I looked at SportingNews baseball preview: Felix throws tremendous fastball, curveball, change. I looked at Baseball Prospectus 2006: Felix throws fastball, curveball, change. ESPN lists it as fastball, curve, slider, change.

 

That's not 5.

 

Here's an unofficial list of guys who have hit 100mph on the gun. Beckett is there, Felix is not. Again, its unofficial and I"m sure Felix should be included. I think Felix throws as hard as Beckett but you're grasping at straws to say that the reason Felix is better is because his fastball is harder. Nobody says Beckett needs to throw harder to be better. Beckett regularly throws 1-2 mph harder than Papelbon, and Papelbon makes people look silly with his FB. He needs to do what he started doing this year: throwing offspeed stuff early in the count for strikes to keep hitters off balance. Just what Felix did last night.

 

I think my comparison of the two isn't just good, I think it is right on. You pointed to Felix's size (beckett's bigger), his nose-to-toes curve (beckett's is just as nasty) and his velocity (a wash). Again, the only thing Felix has on him is a little bit better control and he's younger. He's not some other worldly pitcher who nobody else can touch, despite what you saw yesterday.

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

 

 

2 types of fastballs makes it 5. He has a 4 seamer that comes close to 100mph and a 2 seamer that sits mid 90s. Beckett up until this season (I havent seen him yet to tell) doesnt have a 2 seamer.

[jacksonianmarch]

Five pitch arsenal? The crack must be strong today. Latest reports I've read tout his change as a work in progress' date=' and he hasn't touched the slider in a couple of years now. He's a FB/curve pitcher right now, just like JB.[/quote']

 

he hasnt touched the slider in yrs? Did you watch last night's game? If he doesnt have a slider, then he has 2 different kinds of curveballs. But trust me, that was a slider.

 

Arsenal from last nights game alone (taken down 2mph cause the ESPN guns were runnin hot)

 

1. 96-98mph 4 seamer

2. 93-96mph 2 seamer

3. 90-93mph slider

4. 81-85mph curveball

5. 81-83mph changeup

 

and dont give me this crap about a 4 seamer being the same thing cause it is a fastball. A 2 seamer can run, cut or sink. Go look at Chien Ming Wang when he returns and tell me there isnt a difference. The pitch he throws is a 2 seamer, or what everyone else used to call a sinker. A sinker is a 2 seamer that has downward bite.

[ORS]

he hasnt touched the slider in yrs? Did you watch last night's game? If he doesnt have a slider, then he has 2 different kinds of curveballs. But trust me, that was a slider.

 

Arsenal from last nights game alone (taken down 2mph cause the ESPN guns were runnin hot)

 

1. 96-98mph 4 seamer

2. 93-96mph 2 seamer

3. 90-93mph slider

4. 81-85mph curveball

5. 81-83mph changeup

 

and dont give me this crap about a 4 seamer being the same thing cause it is a fastball. A 2 seamer can run, cut or sink. Go look at Chien Ming Wang when he returns and tell me there isnt a difference. The pitch he throws is a 2 seamer, or what everyone else used to call a sinker. A sinker is a 2 seamer that has downward bite.

Hughes. You touted Hughes as having five pitches to Gom.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hughes. You touted Hughes as having five pitches to Gom.

 

Ahhhhhh I see.

 

Hughes has the same arsenal taken a bit back with velocity.

 

Nardi took away his slider as it was his best pitch when he came over. He knows the history on most fastball slider kids and wanted to avoid that (TJ surgery at a young age). Nardi taught him the curve and the change, and that curve is one of the best in the entire minor leagues. His change needs a bit of work. This offseason, Nardi allowed Hughes to throw the slider again. So he will work it in, so long as he throws about 20% changeups.

 

Right now, he has his full arsenal at his disposal.

Here it is.

4FB

2FB

curve

slider

change

 

 

The hope is that his primary breaking ball be the curve, and a K pitch be the slider. The change be good enough to go to if needed, but work as a show me pitch for the most part unless the curve or slider are off. Right now, Hughes has 5 pitches, yet has to throw one of them about 20 times a game, his weakest one (changeup). By the time he hits the Bronx, he will have 5 pitches at his disposal to be used at his discretion.

[BSN07]

Beckett does have a 2 seamer, it sits around 92-94 with his 4 seamer topping out in the hi 90's.....(97+)

[jacksonianmarch]

Beckett does have a 2 seamer' date=' it sits around 92-94 with his 4 seamer topping out in the hi 90's.....(97+)[/quote']

 

did he just add it in? He didnt have one last yr in the games I saw.

[jacksonianmarch]

back to Hughes, one thing that is interesting is his velocities.

 

4FB 92-95

2FB 90-93

Slider 80-85

Change 75-80

Curveball 65-75

 

He has a huge, loopy curve like Zito does and it is about 20mph or more slower than his heat. I have personally seen it (last yr at Trenton) be clocked in the 60s one pitch after Hughes hit the outside corner with a 96mph fastball.