Matsuzaka

[jacksonianmarch]

you are way too naive fred. These guys followed you here for one purpose. Eventually, that purpose will bear out.

[seabeachfred]

you are way too naive fred. These guys followed you here for one purpose. Eventually' date=' that purpose will bear out.[/quote']

 

Believe it or not some of these guys follow other people on other boards. They have popped up on Cub, Philie, Giant and who knows where else. This is a great board Jackson and if I don't pay them no mind they will either go straight or leave. Let's just leave it at that and see where this goes.

 

Were you the one who predicted Papelbon would be put back at closer. One or two of us said something like that around a week or so ago. It wasn't me because I have never been in favor of it. Now we have a potential hole in the 5th rotation spot while Wakefield looks to me like he is at the end of his rope.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wakefield will be at the end of his rope when he is on his deathbed. Dude can throw till he's 75.

[Metropolitan Cowboy]

Wakefield will be at the end of his rope when he is on his deathbed. Dude can throw till he's 75.

 

 

 

Are you satisfied with having a .500 pitcher (I think that is his ceiling) once every 5 days? You know that is all you are going to get with him. His knuckle might dance one night and he will be lid up like a Christmas tree the next outing.

[seabeachfred]

MC, I would be lucky if we got that from him; frankly I don't think we'll even get that. He was batted around the park again today. Now that the Red Sox are putting Papelbon at closer Wake's performance becomes more critical because now he's the #4 pitcher and we need something like 14-10 from him and I don't think we're going to get it.

 

Again ,what happend to Furcal today?

[riverside sluggers]

Are you satisfied with having a .500 pitcher (I think that is his ceiling) once every 5 days? You know that is all you are going to get with him. His knuckle might dance one night and he will be lid up like a Christmas tree the next outing.

 

Im sure you know that Jacksonian is a Yankees fan, right?

 

Ok Metro, Wake is a 5th starter so of course no one is expecting him to be lights out. In his years as a Red Sox he has been known to be a workhorse, 175-200 innings pitcher, respectable average ERA of 4.25 to 4.50, 150 +/- Ks... all at the cost of a mere $4 million a year

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you satisfied with having a .500 pitcher (I think that is his ceiling) once every 5 days? You know that is all you are going to get with him. His knuckle might dance one night and he will be lid up like a Christmas tree the next outing.

 

if you can go .500 with what should be your 5th starter, then you are doing something right.

[BoSox21]

I expect better than .500 records from all 5 starters this season, we have capable guys who can claim than 5th starter spot

[jacksonianmarch]

I expect better than .500 records from all 5 starters this season' date=' we have capable guys who can claim than 5th starter spot[/quote']

 

you have a damn good pitcher in Matsuzaka, I'll give you that. He is nasty. Your 5 hole is going to be intriguing.

[BoSox21]

its about as intriguing as the search for a closer was but this one seems to be easier to fill

[jacksonianmarch]

it could be a very big problem. Look at the contingency plans.

 

Tavarez- takes away your best long reliever. He is a baserunner machine who will kill the bullpen every 5th day.

 

Gabbard- walks WAY too many and doesnt have good enough stuff to get away with it in 32 starts

 

Pauley- just not that good.

 

Lester- I love this kid as a person. Tough kid, could be a fantastic story and yes he is the one red sock who I will root for. But look at who he was. His stuff was okay, but it wasnt ace stuff. He put way too many runners on and he is coming back from cancer. You rush him back and you run the risk of ruining his development. He needed refinement before chemo, I can only imagine the amount of strength, command, touch he needs to regain now. DONT RUSH HIM. I want him to be good. He should not be an option at all this yr at least until the roster expands.

 

Hansack- intriguing option, but very unproven. Could be a wildcard.

 

You have one intriguing option, one poor option who hurts your pen, one option who needs refinement and time to get his body back, and two crappy options.

[BoSox21]

well, at least it wont be Lenny DiNardo...

[jacksonianmarch]

True.

[riverside sluggers]

it could be a very big problem. Look at the contingency plans.

 

Tavarez- takes away your best long reliever. He is a baserunner machine who will kill the bullpen every 5th day.

 

Gabbard- walks WAY too many and doesnt have good enough stuff to get away with it in 32 starts

 

Pauley- just not that good.

 

Lester- I love this kid as a person. Tough kid, could be a fantastic story and yes he is the one red sock who I will root for. But look at who he was. His stuff was okay, but it wasnt ace stuff. He put way too many runners on and he is coming back from cancer. You rush him back and you run the risk of ruining his development. He needed refinement before chemo, I can only imagine the amount of strength, command, touch he needs to regain now. DONT RUSH HIM. I want him to be good. He should not be an option at all this yr at least until the roster expands.

 

Hansack- intriguing option, but very unproven. Could be a wildcard.

 

You have one intriguing option, one poor option who hurts your pen, one option who needs refinement and time to get his body back, and two crappy options.

 

Are you just being a Yankee fan trying to get the Sox fans riled up & worried about the 07 season? Im not at all sideswiped about this move, dreading that the season is any jeopardy before its started

 

Oh you forgot another option... TRADES

[jacksonianmarch]

trades are certainly an option. And no, a yankee fan who is being an ass would just say the red sox suck. A yankee fan who went through watching Jaret f***ing Wright burn the bullpen every 5th can tell you what Tavarez will do to your team.

[CrespoBlows]

Are you just being a Yankee fan trying to get the Sox fans riled up & worried about the 07 season? Im not at all sideswiped about this move, dreading that the season is any jeopardy before its started

 

Oh you forgot another option... TRADES

 

1. Denial - Thinking Kason Gabbard was a passable option as a starter

 

2. Anger - This post

 

3. Bargaining - Trade idea

 

4. Depression

 

5. Acceptance

 

(We'll fill this in as the season progresses)

[seabeachfred]

well' date=' at least it wont be Lenny DiNardo...[/quote']

 

Wow BoSox, that name sure brings back some frightful moments. For some reason the Red Sox thought this guy would merge into a decent pitcher, but he looked like crap every time I saw him either in person or on TV. He had no fastball, threw sidearm, bad piss poor control, and when he got it over the plate he got hammered. All he had going for him was that he was a nice guy.

[jacksonianmarch]

and he was a lefty. If he was right handed, he is flipping burgers right now instead of fighting for a spot on the A's.

[riverside sluggers]

trades are certainly an option. And no' date=' a yankee fan who is being an ass would just say the red sox suck. A yankee fan who went through watching Jaret f***ing Wright burn the bullpen every 5th can tell you what Tavarez will do to your team.[/quote']

 

And yet the Yankees won the East very easily with Wright as the 5th starter. IMO if this team's downfall is the 5th starter, something must be very off

[ORS]

With Papelbon in the pen, all it takes is one injury to a 40+ y/o pitcher, which is very likely to happen, and then we have 2-holes. Sounds a lot like last year. I still don't like it.

 

EDIT: What they should do is have Papelbon start to start the year. If the other 4 starters are looking good and strong, and the pen sucks, then move him. Now he's eliminated as an option for the year. And, the only pitching prospects that still have some promise are relievers. All the AAA SP are filler. From a strategic standpoint, it would have made more sense to leave the most question marks where you are likely to get the best help if your minor league talent is performing. If Hansen or MDC were looking good, they could have filled a BP hole. I have no faith that any of the AAA SP will ever make me feel confident filling the 5 (or 4 with an injury) slot in the rotation.

[a700hitter]

With Papelbon in the pen' date=' all it takes is one injury to a 40+ y/o pitcher, which is very likely to happen, and then we have 2-holes. Sounds a lot like last year. I still don't like it.[/quote']I agree completely. They need to get a reliable starter for the 5th slot, but who the hell is available at this point? Did I hear ...Raajaaah Raajaah. Yes, I think I did.

[seabeachfred]

1. Denial - Thinking Kason Gabbard was a passable option as a starter

 

2. Anger - This post

 

3. Bargaining - Trade idea

 

4. Depression

 

5. Acceptance

 

(We'll fill this in as the season progresses)

 

I hope you're not calling it a season because of this turn of events? I agree Gabbard would be a reach as fifth starter even though he's pitched well this Spring. However, I think Wakefield is a bigger reach because he has looked like s*** out there every time he's pitched. It will most likely be Taverez in the rotation until Lester is ready, which I would hope is sooner than expected. At least Julian proved he could win as a starter.

[seabeachfred]

With Papelbon in the pen, all it takes is one injury to a 40+ y/o pitcher, which is very likely to happen, and then we have 2-holes. Sounds a lot like last year. I still don't like it.

 

EDIT: What they should do is have Papelbon start to start the year. If the other 4 starters are looking good and strong, and the pen sucks, then move him. Now he's eliminated as an option for the year. And, the only pitching prospects that still have some promise are relievers. All the AAA SP are filler. From a strategic standpoint, it would have made more sense to leave the most question marks where you are likely to get the best help if your minor league talent is performing. If Hansen or MDC were looking good, they could have filled a BP hole. I have no faith that any of the AAA SP will ever make me feel confident filling the 5 (or 4 with an injury) slot in the rotation.

 

Hell Red, I have no confidence any more in Wakefield. He has looked absolutely s***** this Spring and he got bopped around yesterday if you were watching the game on ESPN. I think Schilling will hold up very well this season and we will have a pretty damn good trio of starters, but here's hoping from my end at least that Lester makes enough of a recovery arm wise that he can take a spot in the rotation by the end of April. I've read where physically he is doing exceptionally well and that's the best news of all. Let Taverez take the fifth spot right now and hope Wakefield suddenly remembers where is knuckler went and we could get through this. Truth be known, however, I really think sending Papelbon back to the pen is horseshit because it just creates a big hole on the starting staff. I'd rather have Jon pitching seven innings than one.

[jacksonianmarch]

And yet the Yankees won the East very easily with Wright as the 5th starter. IMO if this team's downfall is the 5th starter' date=' something must be very off[/quote']

 

The yankees won because Mariano saved every lead we had and our offense picked up the slack of Matsui and Sheff's injury. It also left us with an absolutely spent bullpen for the playoffs. Wright and the uncertain 5 hole would leave us with guys like Villone throwing like a grade schooler. Tavarez will require AT LEAST 4 innings of relief on a nightly basis. It may look okay if he is going 5IP 3ER every single game, but by August, guys like Timlin, Donnelly and yes, Papelbon will be sucking air. Trust me on this one. If you are going to have a s***** #5, have a s***** #5 who can at least go 6+. Your offense will make up for Tavarez at least half the time. But your bullpen will be hurtin.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hell Red' date=' I have no confidence any more in Wakefield. He has looked absolutely s***** this Spring and he got bopped around yesterday if you were watching the game on ESPN. I think Schilling will hold up very well this season and we will have a pretty damn good trio of starters, but here's hoping from my end at least that Lester makes enough of a recovery arm wise that he can take a spot in the rotation by the end of April. I've read where physically he is doing exceptionally well and that's the best news of all. Let Taverez take the fifth spot right now and hope Wakefield suddenly remembers where is knuckler went and we could get through this. Truth be known, however, I really think sending Papelbon back to the pen is horseshit because it just creates a big hole on the starting staff. I'd rather have Jon pitching seven innings than one.[/quote']

 

Fred. 12-12 4.75 190IP. Bank it. That is pretty solid for a back end starter in the ALE.

[jacksonianmarch]

and fred, if you are hoping to rush Lester again, you are playing with fire.

[CrespoBlows]

I hope you're not calling it a season because of this turn of events?

 

No, the move certainly dimishes hope. We would have had 5 good starting pitchers, with Lester in reserve, in case of injury. With those pitcher giving you QS, about 75% of the time, the bullpen would not be relied upon to pitch a whole lot. Most of the innings would be absorbed by the starting rotation.

 

Now?

 

We have four good starters, and one terrible one. Plus, we don't have the luxury of holding Lester in reserve any more. As soon as he looks ready to pitch, you better bet your ass he's going to pitch. I won't even go into the injury scenarios.

 

Every pitcher, besides Matsuzaka, moves up a spot. I had Papelbon down as the second best pitcher in the rotation. I don't think we're moving the number five to closer, the number two is now our closer. Again, ace pitchers > closers.

 

The worst part about this move is that the bullpen, that we all pissed and moaned about, now has to throw more innings. I hope we can find a bridge from the fifth to the ninth, when Kason Gabbard is making his second fill in spot in July.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree Gabbard would be a reach as fifth starter even though he's pitched well this Spring. However, I think Wakefield is a bigger reach because he has looked like s*** out there every time he's pitched. It will most likely be Taverez in the rotation until Lester is ready, which I would hope is sooner than expected. At least Julian proved he could win as a starter

 

Wow. You love small sample sizes.

 

After years of failure as a pitcher, Julian Tavarez proved he was a winner with four games in September? Good f***ing God, That's worse than putting Kason Gabbard over Tim Wakefield.

[jacksonianmarch]

Crespo, only one pitcher had a 75%+ QS% last yr and that was Oswalt.

For reference, Schilling was at 61%, Mussina at 72%, Beckett at 58%, Wang at 55%, and Pettitte at 57%.

[TheKilo]

Crespo, only one pitcher had a 75%+ QS% last yr and that was Oswalt.

For reference, Schilling was at 61%, Mussina at 72%, Beckett at 58%, Wang at 55%, and Pettitte at 57%.

 

 

He said pitchers. Meaning 3/4 games would be a QS.

[seabeachfred]

Crespo, if my take on Taverez seems like I'm grasping at straws, congratulations because that is exactly what I feel I'm doing right at this moment. Now if you could guarantee me that Wakefield will somehow go 14 or 15-10 my confidence would perk up immediately. I would also like to know who you would put in that fifth spot in the rotation. I said Taverez with my small sample. If you have a better suggestion I am all ears because if we cannot get our fourth and fifth starter to win some games and eat a shitload of innings our bullpen could be toast by September.