Papelbon as possible closer

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/02/the_closer.html

 

in the worst kept secret of the offseason where many people thought that Paps would be back in the closers role, it seems that many people were right. Theo said that Jon remains an option for the closers role, likely intimating that the sox medical staff likes what they saw out of his shoulder.

 

If this is the case, they may start the season with Pineiro or Tavarez in the 5 hole until Lester shows he is MLB ready. OR, they may look to the trade market which will come available this spring training.

[adam123]

i think it would be great have lester fill 5th spot and give paps the fing ball in the 9th

[adam123]

just go get chad cordero already ... give up prospect if all fails with the rest like pinero or hansen

[jacksonianmarch]

well, this also opens up further speculation on Roger Clemens. The sox pen is gross. Adding Papelbon makes it less gross and all they would need out of the cast of characters in the pen would be for one guy to step up and be serviceable to tagteam with Paps and the sox pen would be serviceable. The sox pen is relying on 2-3 guys to step up right now. Putting Paps out there makes it 1 or 2, which is feasible in the pen. But, if that 4 hole in the rotation is filled by Clemens, then the staff will be complete and would be a bitch to fight off in the playoffs. If Paps is the closer, then the sox and yankees will havce a serious battle for Clemens.

[Papelbon58]

If the Nats want what it was rumored they did, the Sox should not make the trade. If Lester does return and is healthy, and none of the candidates like Manny D and Piniero are suitable, then Paps can go back. But it all depends on Lester being fully recovered.

[a700hitter]

i think it would be great have lester fill 5th spot and give paps the fing ball in the 9th

It would be nice if Lester were ready to hold down a rotation spot and give more than 4 or 5 innings.

[a700hitter]

If Paps is the closer' date=' then the sox and yankees will havce a serious battle for Clemens.[/quote']If Papelbon moves back to the pen, get ready to be my bitchn Jackson.

[TheKilo]

It would be nice if Lester were ready to hold down a rotation spot and give more than 4 or 5 innings.

 

It'd be nice if he didn't pitch with cancer last year, too.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Papelbon moves back to the pen' date=' get ready to be my bitchn Jackson.[/quote']

 

Your odds are getting better, but they sure as hell arent as good as mine, beeyatch!

[hoefdj18]

it's soo damn hard to come by a good closer these days. this news of paps moving back into the closers role is good new to my ears. hopefully lester has a good showing in spring training to make this possible.

[Sizzlin22]

I don't like this. Didn't doctors say his arm can;t take the strain of pitching every day and he needs to be a starter? If there is even a shred of doubt he shouldn't be put back in the pen the last thing we need to do is screw up the kids arm.

[BSN07]

I don't like this. Didn't doctors say his arm can;t take the strain of pitching every day and he needs to be a starter? If there is even a shred of doubt he shouldn't be put back in the pen the last thing we need to do is screw up the kids arm.

 

 

Yes but if he is moved back his workload will be reduced. No 2 inning games and less back to back nights. The doctors must have really like the results of the off season shoulder strengthing he did or they would not risk him.

[He Hate Me]

I thought Pap Smear went to the starting rotation because of his burning desire to be a starter?

[MANNYHOF24]

I still think Paps is a long shot for the closers role, but I wouldnt rule it out. If he can stay healthy he could end up being one of the best closers the game has seen.

[a700hitter]

It'd be nice if he didn't pitch with cancer last year' date=' too.[/quote']

Whether the cancer was the cause, I don't know. Everyone wishes him the best. I just don't think he is ready to assume a rotation spot and pitch a significant number of innings.

[TheKilo]

Whether the cancer was the cause' date=' I don't know. Everyone wishes him the best. I just don't think he is ready to assume a rotation spot and pitch a significant number of innings.[/quote']

 

Ok...let's assume that cancer saps people's strength, ok?

 

Let's assume that if a pitcher has cancer he can't throw as hard, ok?

 

Let's assume that since he can't throw as hard, he has to nibble more as to not get rocked, ok?

 

Maybe PITCHING WITH CANCER made Lester have a drop in velocity and therefore increased his PC to the point where he couldn't move past the 5th inning.

 

I, for one, will hold on making judgement until I know how he pitches without cancer.

[ORS]

I think Papelbon returning to the closers role should be dependent on the three things that Francona is on record saying needs to happen. One, whoever is doing it to start the season can't get the job done. Two, he is struggling as a starter. Three, the doctors OK the move. All three of those need to happen to move him to the the BP, IMO.

 

Even if one and three happen, but two does not, they shouldn't move him. I would much rather try and find a closer on the run if he's a stud in the rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

and I think you would rather sacrifice short term with him and go for the long term gain when you have a talent like his. If the sox are floundering and the closers role needs some serious reinforcement, but concerns still exist, you sacrifice the short term winning for what this kid could develop into. He was something special last yr and if he can harness that into being an ace a few seasons down the road, then you dont mess with that for 2007. Take the hit and watch him and Matsuzaka tag team a tough rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

Ok...let's assume that cancer saps people's strength, ok?

 

Let's assume that if a pitcher has cancer he can't throw as hard, ok?

 

Let's assume that since he can't throw as hard, he has to nibble more as to not get rocked, ok?

 

Maybe PITCHING WITH CANCER made Lester have a drop in velocity and therefore increased his PC to the point where he couldn't move past the 5th inning.

 

I, for one, will hold on making judgement until I know how he pitches without cancer.

 

his initial symptom wasnt fatigue, it was back pain. He hadnt lost the weight a cancer victim typically does by the time of diagnosis. His strength is sapped now because of the chemo. The kid has a ways to go. Even when he regains his weight, he needs to develop his lower half, remember solid mechanics and be patient with his fastball. People who have these sort of catastrophic occurences tend to try and prove too much too soon and hurt themselves. He needs to take it slow and be diligent.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Ok...let's assume that cancer saps people's strength, ok?

 

Let's assume that if a pitcher has cancer he can't throw as hard, ok?

 

Let's assume that since he can't throw as hard, he has to nibble more as to not get rocked, ok?

 

Maybe PITCHING WITH CANCER made Lester have a drop in velocity and therefore increased his PC to the point where he couldn't move past the 5th inning.

 

I, for one, will hold on making judgement until I know how he pitches without cancer.

 

Usually it's not the cancer that makes people weak...it's the drugs and treatment that drain.

 

Obviously there are exceptions, but in general...

[castigs850]

im with ORS saying that a lot of things need to go wrong for him to move back to the closers role this year, but two more things that should effect it is how much depth the starting rotation needs if people go down and papelbons arm is used to the short stints of the bullpen he isnt doing us any good. plus we have two guys that in the past two offseasons were speculated as closers of the future, bryce cox and craig hanson, hanson didnt show much last year but im with the majority saying that a year in the minors could really help him, say those two guys excel and are ready next year i cant see the redsox flip flopping paps another time, course there is the flipside that they both bomb and you need him, id rather a quality starter and find a reliever than than vice versa

[seabeachfred]

I think Papelbon returning to the closers role should be dependent on the three things that Francona is on record saying needs to happen. One, whoever is doing it to start the season can't get the job done. Two, he is struggling as a starter. Three, the doctors OK the move. All three of those need to happen to move him to the the BP, IMO.

 

Even if one and three happen, but two does not, they shouldn't move him. I would much rather try and find a closer on the run if he's a stud in the rotation.

 

ORS, didn't I read somewhere that the doctors said pitching in the closer's role night after night was causing undue strain on Paps shoulder? To me a guy like that capable of winning 15-20 games would be much more valuable as a starter, and it would make our rotation that much stronger. I really don't know if Theo is serious with his tap dance with all those usual suspects he has lined up as potential closers, and I've been saying for two months to go get Cordero and be done with it. However, I really think Epstein thinks he can find one in his own stable. I know only one thing for sure. I don't want Papelbon in the bullpen. One more thing---how many of those closer suspects are going to get enough chances to close a game in ST to tell any of us whether they are the guy or not?

[seabeachfred]

and I think you would rather sacrifice short term with him and go for the long term gain when you have a talent like his. If the sox are floundering and the closers role needs some serious reinforcement' date=' but concerns still exist, you sacrifice the short term winning for what this kid could develop into. He was something special last yr and if he can harness that into being an ace a few seasons down the road, then you dont mess with that for 2007. Take the hit and watch him and Matsuzaka tag team a tough rotation.[/quote']

 

Or Jacksonian, you face reality and go all out to trade for a closer like Cordero, or maybe Duscherer of the A's, and pay the price for someone who could mean the difference in getting to the World Series or not. Papelbon is a helluva talent and I would not like to see him go the way of the ruined arm route. He is too valuable to the Red Sox for that.

[TGov]

Or Jacksonian' date=' you face reality and go all out to trade for a closer like Cordero, or maybe Duscherer of the A's, and pay the price for someone who could mean the difference in getting to the World Series or not. Papelbon is a helluva talent and I would not like to see him go the way of the ruined arm route. He is too valuable to the Red Sox for that.[/quote']

 

I agree, I do not want to see Papelbon gone in a few years because of arm injuries, I would greatly rather see him start, and I am very excited to see him in his first outing...

 

If we did go out and get a closer, I would want them to go after Duscherer, he is pretty young, and the A's have Street. Also Duscherer closed pretty well with the absence of Street last season. I don't think we would have to give up that much for Duscherer like a top prospect or anything like that...

[seabeachfred]

I agree, I do not want to see Papelbon gone in a few years because of arm injuries, I would greatly rather see him start, and I am very excited to see him in his first outing...

 

If we did go out and get a closer, I would want them to go after Duscherer, he is pretty young, and the A's have Street. Also Duscherer closed pretty well with the absence of Street last season. I don't think we would have to give up that much for Duscherer like a top prospect or anything like that...

 

TGov, I wish I had the answer to our closer situation. I can agree with Theo that he doesn't want to pay a ransom for one if he trades for Cordero, and trading with the A's' Billy Beane means we would have to dispense some good young talent for Duscherer. We may not have a choice if someone doesn't step up by the end of Spring Training. I will be in Fort Myers the last week of the Grapefruit League and I sure as hell hope we've settled something of that order by then. If not, we could all be nervous by Opening Day.:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

[BSN07]

I actually think( I might be a minority) that Pinerio will be the closer at the end of ST. If his velocity is back up in the mid 90's and his slider is bitting hard, I think he can get by with those two pitches in the closers role. If anything he should atleast have one decent year or so before everyone adjust's to him. He's been pitching out west so alot of the East guys have not seen him.

 

Yes I know Jackson is gonna throw the ERA out there and all the other negatives about Pinerio, but facing guys one time in the 9th is alot different then facing the 3+ times in a game. I think he will beable to get away with a little bit more only pitching to a couple guys a night.

 

All though I could be wrong and we will have to find someone else. If Pinerio fails then most likely the closers gig will go to the hottest hand in the pen, Pinerio, then Donnely and if those two don't work out Maybe Okijihma( not sure what kind of stuff he has) but no one has ever seen him so that can only be a plus even if his stuff is mid grade. Foulke got it done for a yr for us with an 88 MPH fastball and a sweet change, if that can get it done then someone in the pen should be able to do it.

[jacksonianmarch]

cmon bosox. Lets not put too much stock into this guy being anything worthwhile. Pineiro is what he is. A shell of his former self still using his distant past to bilk money out of teams. But Theo is the mastermind of the smokescreen. I have an eery feeling the sox have something brewing and signing pineiro to the big money he got was a way to tell people that he is happy with his situation. If you are happy, you have no desperation and desperation is a great leveraging tool used by other teams.

[seabeachfred]

BoNat, it is only my prediction and nothing more, but if we are stuck with Piniero as our closer we could be in deep do-do this coming year. I saw this guy pitch a couple of times last season in Anaheim and unimpressed is a mild term for what I thought of his stuff. The Angels, no great shakes of a hitting team, seemed to like teeing off on him. The guy had his last good year in 2003 and has been a has-been since. It is hard for me to imagine how this guy can suddenly "find it". As for you Jackson, Yankee fans always think that the Red Sox have something up their sleeves just as I always think Cashman is up to something. I wish it were true, but I really think Epstein has convinced himself that Piniero is his man. The fact is he is not his man, my man, BoNat's man, RSN's man or anything of the kind. Hope I'm wrong but that's how I see it.

[a700hitter]

Ok...let's assume that cancer saps people's strength, ok?

 

Let's assume that if a pitcher has cancer he can't throw as hard, ok?

 

Let's assume that since he can't throw as hard, he has to nibble more as to not get rocked, ok?

 

Maybe PITCHING WITH CANCER made Lester have a drop in velocity and therefore increased his PC to the point where he couldn't move past the 5th inning.

 

I, for one, will hold on making judgement until I know how he pitches without cancer.

Do you know how the cancer treatments will affect his stamina and abilities? I don't, and I am not sure the Red Sox know either. It would be very imprudent for the Red Sox to include him in their rotation plans for 2007, because they don't know if he'll be back at full strength and even if he is at full strength, he still hasn't proved that he can hold down a spot in a major league rotation. Anything the Red Sox get from tyhis kid in 2007 will be a bonus, but they should not be expecting anything from him or relying upon him in any way.

[TheKilo]

Do you know how the cancer treatments will affect his stamina and abilities? I don't' date=' and I am not sure the Red Sox know either. It would be very imprudent for the Red Sox to include him in their rotation plans for 2007, because they don't know if he'll be back at full strength and even if he is at full strength, he still hasn't proved that he can hold down a spot in a major league rotation. Anything the Red Sox get from tyhis kid in 2007 will be a bonus, but they should not be expecting anything from him or relying upon him in any way.[/quote']

 

 

I agree with the last part of your post.