Kurkjian: Sox have #1 rotation

[NomahsHammSammich]

I still fail to see the "greatness" in Beckett. A #1 or #2' date=' not in the AL East. He has pitched 200 or more innings only once in his career, that was last year. Along with those innings pitched his ERA ballooned, number of hits allowed increased significantly and his SO ratio took a nosedive. As for the current starting 5 pitching 1000 innings, I don't see how that could happen. The Sox rotation if solid, but by no means is better than the Tigers and maybe even a little short of Anaheim's.[/quote']

 

The Sox rotation is better and deeper than that of the Tigers... .(We stilll have Lester and

 

Tavarez at 6 and 7 both of whome we could use in a pinch). Anaheim? Lackey/Weaver/Santanna and who? DO not even say Colon...he is eating his way out of the game as we speak..his body is falling apart.

 

Beckett had a bad year. This is also the 1st time he has pitched as many innings as he did...which I think is a good sign... He has always had an ERA in the low 3's...this does not transfer into a 5'ish ERA. He will be somewhere between 3.50 and 4.10.

 

I don't think alot of you realize how good this rotation IS going to be. They will be the best in the game if they stay healthy. This is a 100 win team.

[Rodney Harrison]

Yes Beckett gave up the bombs on a more then regular basis' date=' but when ML hitters know your gonna come with the heat your in deep at that point. Alot of guys where sitting on his heat because they knew it was coming, that probably won't help your HR numbers. But I expect to see more change ups and curve balls from him this yr and we will see he has made the right adjustments.[/quote']

 

Paging Eric Milton...

[Rodney Harrison]

We have the best rotation in baseball..and it is not even close. I understand the question marks..I really do.. However' date=' I believe last year was a fluke where Josh Beckett uis concerned. I fully expect Beckett to be a top 10 pitcher in the AL this year. Add to Beckett Schilling..who will also be a top 10 starter and you have a nice start. Matsuzaka is going to be the best statistical pitcher we have...I think other teams will really struggle against him, especially the 1st time they see his arsenal. Papelbon was already very good as a starter..albeit a small sample size...and then he was utterly dominant as a closer...no reason to think he will not be a top of rotation starter. With Wakefield..we know what we will get...something like a 14-11 record with a 4.85 ERA and a bunch of innings. Not bad for a #5. All in all..I think we have 4 top of rotation starters and a solid 3 or 4 who will be our #5. No staff comes close to this kind of potential.[/quote']

 

You can't say that you have the best rotation in baseball and admit that there are question marks. The Red Sox are not light years ahead of the Tigers' rotation. Even the biggest homer can't say that.

[Rodney Harrison]

The Sox rotation is better and deeper than that of the Tigers... .(We stilll have Lester and Tavarez at 6 and 7 both of whome we could use in a pinch). Anaheim? Lackey/Weaver/Santanna and who? DO not even say Colon...he is eating his way out of the game as we speak..his body is falling apart.

 

Beckett had a bad year. This is also the 1st time he has pitched as many innings as he did...which I think is a good sign... He has always had an ERA in the low 3's...this does not transfer into a 5'ish ERA. He will be somewhere between 3.50 and 4.10.

 

I don't think alot of you realize how good this rotation IS going to be. They will be the best in the game if they stay healthy. This is a 100 win team.

 

Better and deeper? Aside from Kenny Rogers, they don't have anyone else in their rotation past 40. They have a much younger staff in Bonderman, Robertson, and Verlander. The Sox have a lot of question marks, but I'd still rank them ahead of the Yankees' rotation.

[BudLight]

The Sox rotation is better and deeper than that of the Tigers... .(We stilll have Lester and

 

Tavarez at 6 and 7 both of whome we could use in a pinch). Anaheim? Lackey/Weaver/Santanna and who? DO not even say Colon...he is eating his way out of the game as we speak..his body is falling apart.

 

Beckett had a bad year. This is also the 1st time he has pitched as many innings as he did...which I think is a good sign... He has always had an ERA in the low 3's...this does not transfer into a 5'ish ERA. He will be somewhere between 3.50 and 4.10.

 

I don't think alot of you realize how good this rotation IS going to be. They will be the best in the game if they stay healthy. This is a 100 win team.

 

Tavarez is a water cooler away from the DL. You keep stating Beckett had a bad year last year and will only get better. What is this based on? His NL numbers? The game of his life against the Yankees in the 2003 WS? Other than that he is nothing spectacular. He's a slightly better than .500 pitcher. 57-45 lifetime.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox rotation is better and deeper than that of the Tigers... .(We stilll have Lester and

 

Tavarez at 6 and 7 both of whome we could use in a pinch). Anaheim? Lackey/Weaver/Santanna and who? DO not even say Colon...he is eating his way out of the game as we speak..his body is falling apart.

 

Beckett had a bad year. This is also the 1st time he has pitched as many innings as he did...which I think is a good sign... He has always had an ERA in the low 3's...this does not transfer into a 5'ish ERA. He will be somewhere between 3.50 and 4.10.

 

I don't think alot of you realize how good this rotation IS going to be. They will be the best in the game if they stay healthy. This is a 100 win team.

 

NHS, I disagree with you about as much as one could disagree. Lester is not a viable option out of the chute. He MAY be an option late, but right now he is not a rotation option. Tavares was serviceable as a starter, but a WHIP of 1.52 as a starter is Chacon like and would eventually equilibrate into mediocrity or downright being terrible. After that, you are talking about Gabbard and Pauley, two guys who let a gawdy number of baserunners reach last yr in their debuts. Hansack? He is likely the best bet as a #6 starter, and that isnt saying much.

 

As far as backing beckett, he needs to expand his arsenal or he wont be any good. Forget about the rebound, or the first yr jitters, or being overworked. You cannot come to the AL East with a blazing fastball and no confidence in your breaking pitches and be effective. He was dominant early on because he used that knee-buckling curveball and mixed in the change. By the end of the season, he became bat-shy and started nibbling with his heater. At the same time, he cut his finger again and shied away from the curveball. His changeup simply is not good enough to be a stand alone off speed pitch. So teams knew what was coming and he was tattoed. If that curveball doesnt find its way back into his arsenal as a hammer, he is going to get hammered.

 

Staying healthy is a big if. As well as the if's brought about by every pitcher on the staff. Schilling was hit around last yr like no yr before and for a 40 yr old pitcher, that indicates a loss of stuff. Which should be expected at his age. He needs to adjust to it or he will continue to decline. Nobody has a clue what Paps will be in the rotation. He has lights out stuff, but you usually scale back the heat a bit and become more of a pitcher when you are counted on for 6-7 innings every 5th rather than 1 inning every night. Matsuzaka is likely going to be the sox best pitcher, but nobody is really sure what to expect. Wake needs to stay healthy.

[jacksonianmarch]

Better and deeper? Aside from Kenny Rogers' date=' they don't have anyone else in their rotation past 40. They have a much younger staff in Bonderman, Robertson, and Verlander. The Sox have a lot of question marks, but I'd still rank them ahead of the Yankees' rotation.[/quote']

 

Detroit has a rotation of

Rogers

Verlander

Maroth

Bonderman

Robertson

 

Miner is the 6th.

Millers is the 7th.

Tata is the 8th.

Jurriens is the 9th.

 

All of the above are considered high level talent or top prospects. It should be illegal the type of pitching talent they have accumulated.

[TheDanIam]

Hi all-

 

At this point is somewhat ridiculous to claim the Red Sox rotation the best in baseball. If based on potential alone the Marlins could make the same claim as the Sox. Detroit has a filthy rotation and the expected development of prospects gives them even more potential.

[TheKilo]

Goddamnit the season needs to start.

 

I regret making this thread...that didn't take long, did it?

[jacksonianmarch]

Goddamnit the season needs to start.

 

 

yes it does.

[Gom]

You guys are crazy. No one states that the Yankees staff is better than the Sox's staff. It's the only spot on the team the Sox have an edge in. However, the Sox as the number one staff? Are you guys drinking too much Sam Adams?

 

Detroit has the best rotation in baseball. Period.

 

To put this thing to bed, the Sox need the following to happen to be the best staff in baseball:

 

1) Matsuzaka to be the real deal.

2) Beckett to rebound from a 5+ ERA and pitch dominantly like he did in Florida.

3) Schilling to continue to perform at a high level considering his age and injury concerns.

4) Papelbon to make a smooth transition from bullpen to rotation.

 

That's a lot of things that have to break right.

 

The Tigers?

 

Just repeat what they did last year.

 

Enough already.

[NomahsHammSammich]

Better and deeper? Aside from Kenny Rogers' date=' they don't have anyone else in their rotation past 40. They have a much younger staff in Bonderman, Robertson, and Verlander. The Sox have a lot of question marks, but I'd still rank them ahead of the Yankees' rotation.[/quote']

 

Robertson? lol.. The guy has 1 decent year and suddenly he is a great pitcher? I would take Josh Beckett over Robertson even if you threw in a naked Jenna Jameson along with Nate. I think you are VASTLY overrating the Robertson.

[jacksonianmarch]

2 straight good yrs after a very serviceable rookie yr. Robertson has a better all around repertoire than Beckett and he's a lefty.

[Gom]

Beckett I think will be the ace of the staff this yr followed closely by Matsuzaka, here are my predictions,

 

Schilling 16-9 3.94 ERA 180 innings+

Beckett 18-7 3.65 ERA 215 innings

Matsuzaka 15-6 4.00 ERA 175 innings

Papelbon 15-10 3.87 ERA 175 innings

Wakefield- 12-12 4.53 ERA 200 innings

Lester 12-6 3.78 ERA 120 innings

 

Oh my goodness. You can't be serious can you?

 

In the AL East?

 

Let me point out something for all of you delusional fans. Last year, for pitchers who qualified for the ERA title, in the American league, guess how many pitchers had an ERA at 4.00 or below?

 

Thirteen. Now, I'm going to include Lester with his low IP total, and I am going to put the Red Sox into the list as you have predicted as they would have done last year. Current predictions are noted by *.

 

Santana 2.77

Halladay 3.19

Sabathia 3.22

Mussina 3.51

Lackey 3.56

Escobar 3.61

Wang 3.63

Verlander 3.63

Beckett 3.65 ***

Bedard 3.76

Zito 3.76

Lester 3.78 ***

Robertson 3.84

Rogers 3.84

Papelbon 3.87***

Schilling 3.94 ***

Schilling 3.97

Matsuzaka 4.00 ***

 

So what you are saying is that four of your five starting pitchers are going to place in the top 17 in the AL. While pitching in Fenway. While playing in the AL East. According to this, Beckett and Wang will be a wash, Lester will be as effective as Ztio, Papelbon will be as good a pitcher as Robertson and Rogers last year, and Matsuzaka will be as good as Bonderman [4.08 ERA, which I believe he should do easily]. Glad you aren't too optimistic about your team's chances.

 

Do you see how foolish that sounds now?

[Gom]

Robertson? lol.. The guy has 1 decent year and suddenly he is a great pitcher? I would take Josh Beckett over Robertson even if you threw in a naked Jenna Jameson along with Nate. I think you are VASTLY overrating the Robertson.

 

If it wasn't for Pavano, Beckett would be the most overrated pitcher to ever come out of Florida. I for one, would ABSOLUTELY make the trade Beckett for Robertson and a naked Jenna Jamison. If YOU wouldn't, then one of the following must be true.

 

1) You are a heterosexual woman

2) You are impotent

3) You are gay

 

I would guess two of three if you ask me.

[NomahsHammSammich]

You guys are crazy. No one states that the Yankees staff is better than the Sox's staff. It's the only spot on the team the Sox have an edge in. However, the Sox as the number one staff? Are you guys drinking too much Sam Adams?

 

Detroit has the best rotation in baseball. Period.

 

To put this thing to bed, the Sox need the following to happen to be the best staff in baseball:

 

1) Matsuzaka to be the real deal.

2) Beckett to rebound from a 5+ ERA and pitch dominantly like he did in Florida.

3) Schilling to continue to perform at a high level considering his age and injury concerns.

4) Papelbon to make a smooth transition from bullpen to rotation.

 

That's a lot of things that have to break right.

 

The Tigers?

 

Just repeat what they did last year.

 

Enough already.

 

 

And why are these things so difficult for you to believe? Matsuzaka IS the real deal and will be one of the 5 best pithers in baseball this year.. I GUARANTEE you this. All of Beckett's peripherals indicate last season was an anomaly...he has every bit the stuff Verlander or Bonderman has... Matsuzaka is better than both of them. Schilling will be good..you know this. Wakefield will be Wakefield. This is the best staff in baseball. Papelbon has also proved he can start(2.65 ERA in 4 starts).(Small sample?..sure...but he has the stuff to be a dominant starter).

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, you sure are enthusiastic about your team, good for you.

[NomahsHammSammich]

If it wasn't for Pavano, Beckett would be the most overrated pitcher in baseball. I for one, would ABSOLUTELY make the trade Beckett for Robertson and a naked Jenna Jamison. If YOU wouldn't, then one of the following must be true.

 

1) You are a heterosexual woman

2) You are impotent

3) You are gay

 

I would guess two of three if you ask me.

 

Stop....just keep deluding yourself. Yankee skumbags were annointing Matsuzaka the best pitcher in the WORLD when they thought they were getting him! Beckett had 1 bad year... I think you are still a bit salty from the @ssreaming Josh gave your entire city in the World Series. I cannot wait for the hammer to come down on you fuggin clowns...this will be a season of TEARS for Yankee fans.....no not tears of joy.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Its too bad for the Minnesota Twins and the recent issues with Liriano.

 

If he were healthy...I don't care who the other three pitchers are...Liriano and Santana would simply be insane back-to-back. If healthy I think they are the best two pitchers in baseball.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Well' date=' you sure are enthusiastic about your team, good for you.[/quote']

 

As if Yankee fans are no different.

[riverside sluggers]

Beckett was also extremely homer prone last year. He's got to tone that down if he intends to be successful.

 

No doubt the Red Sox have an extremely talented rotation on paper, but the bottom line is that Matsuzaka hasn't done it, Beckett needs to adjust, Wake and Schill are a year older, and Papelbon is converting jobs. Anyone who expects Papelbon's bullpen numbers to carry over to the rotation is crazy.

 

I hate to say this but I think Jacksonian is right. The Red Sox have a high risk, high reward rotation.

 

Beckett made improvements on his HR prevention during the season.

 

1st Half

26 HRs

 

2nd Half

10 HRs

[adam123]

I think dice-k will be ace of the staff because no one knows anything about this guy ..

 

 

beckett should be much better but he needs to use off speed stuff to become more efffective .

 

 

schilling ... come on the guys 40 he really gave his soul in 04 so he will always get a pass for once we got a pitcher and he delivered hands down i still have my we paid a schilling to break the curse shirt i love that shirt .

 

 

 

as for paps ..man i wana see him as closer but they already have him for rotation .. but if pinero or donally fails please bing him back

[Gom]

Stop....just keep deluding yourself. Yankee skumbags were annointing Matsuzaka the best pitcher in the WORLD when they thought they were getting him! Beckett had 1 bad year... I think you are still a bit salty from the @ssreaming Josh gave your entire city in the World Series. I cannot wait for the hammer to come down on you fuggin clowns...this will be a season of TEARS for Yankee fans.....no not tears of joy.

 

Who is this guy? What a loser.

 

And why are these things so difficult for you to believe? Matsuzaka IS the real deal and will be one of the 5 best pithers in baseball this year.. I GUARANTEE you this. All of Beckett's peripherals indicate last season was an anomaly...he has every bit the stuff Verlander or Bonderman has... Matsuzaka is better than both of them. Schilling will be good..you know this. Wakefield will be Wakefield. This is the best staff in baseball. Papelbon has also proved he can start(2.65 ERA in 4 starts).(Small sample?..sure...but he has the stuff to be a dominant starter).

 

Ok, a somewhat sensible post. The point is, what is more likely to happen. All things breaking right, or the Tigers rotation maintaining the status quo?

 

For example..what's more likely? Varitek to rebound, or play like he did last year? You are hoping Matsuzaka, who is an unknown, pans out. You are hoping that Beckett rebounds and pitches well, that Schilling doesn't decline, Papelbon makes a smooth transition...etc. A lot of things have to go right for the Sox to have the best rotation in baseball. As it stands now, all Detroit has to do is repeat what they did last year. What's so difficult to understand about this? I'm not debating who has a better rotation, the Yankees or the Sox...I am saying about all of baseball. In order for the Yankees to have the best rotation in baseball, Wang has to continue to dominate, Mussina has to maintain his productivity and not decline, Pettite has to pitch like he did in the second half of the year in Houston, Igawa turns out to be a solid but unspectacular pitcher, and Pavano has to stay healthy and pitch to his potential.

 

That's a LOT of ifs. Hence, they don't have the best rotation. They have more if's than the Sox. Hence, the Sox have a better rotation. Simple enough for you?

[TheKilo]

Stop....just keep deluding yourself. Yankee skumbags were annointing Matsuzaka the best pitcher in the WORLD when they thought they were getting him! Beckett had 1 bad year... I think you are still a bit salty from the @ssreaming Josh gave your entire city in the World Series. I cannot wait for the hammer to come down on you fuggin clowns...this will be a season of TEARS for Yankee fans.....no not tears of joy.

 

http://www.republicanvoices.org/eating_crow.jpg

[CrespoBlows]

NHS is a moron. 99% of the things he says are wrong. He disappeared after months of guaranting that Clemens would wind up in Boston.

[Gom]

NHS is a moron. 99% of the things he says are wrong. He disappeared after months of guaranting that Clemens would wind up in Boston.

 

I figured as much. He sounds like the morons I meet on Yankee sites.

[Rodney Harrison]

Robertson? lol.. The guy has 1 decent year and suddenly he is a great pitcher? I would take Josh Beckett over Robertson even if you threw in a naked Jenna Jameson along with Nate. I think you are VASTLY overrating the Robertson.

 

Beckett? lol... The guy has 1 decent year and suddenly he is a great pitcher (who just had an "off year")?

 

The only thing Beckett has over Robertson is the WS ring and no WS errors. Robertson has been improving the last four years. The only things that Beckett had going up were his win total (before 2005, he never had a 10-win season) and the number of hits, HRs, and ERs given up.

[Rodney Harrison]

And why are these things so difficult for you to believe? Matsuzaka IS the real deal and will be one of the 5 best pithers in baseball this year.. I GUARANTEE you this. All of Beckett's peripherals indicate last season was an anomaly...he has every bit the stuff Verlander or Bonderman has... Matsuzaka is better than both of them. Schilling will be good..you know this. Wakefield will be Wakefield. This is the best staff in baseball. Papelbon has also proved he can start(2.65 ERA in 4 starts).(Small sample?..sure...but he has the stuff to be a dominant starter).

 

You can guarantee all you want, but until we all see results out of Matsuzaka, everything you say is based on hypotheticals, and they hold no weight in an argument.

[schillingouttheks]

Just read what CrespoBlows said about NHS. He talks out of his ass and doesn't return to eat crow.

[riverside sluggers]

Beckett? lol... The guy has 1 decent year and suddenly he is a great pitcher (who just had an "off year")?

 

The only thing Beckett has over Robertson is the WS ring and no WS errors. Robertson has been improving the last four years. The only things that Beckett had going up were his win total (before 2005, he never had a 10-win season) and the number of hits, HRs, and ERs given up.

 

One decent year? The Sox didnt trade away premier talent because Beckett had a decent year and has a World Series ring. The guy has talent and is just entering his prime years. His 2006 campaign isnt going to be duplicated further down the road. He's too good to let that happen.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6403/career