Which player will be the first one that Sox fans regret signing?

[Cityofchampions33]

Everyone knows the NL Central is the weakest. Pirates' date=' Reds, Cubs... horrible.[/quote']

 

Reds are not bad, Cubs are going to be better.

 

 

I beg to differ. LA's rotation is head and shoulders above the Red Sox rotation. Let's wait until after the season to see how good DiceGay actually is. I think he'd be a good #3 pitcher, not worth the millions Boston paid for him.

 

Schmidt has seen better days, Lowe was our #3, Penny had a 4.33 ERA in the NL West, Randy Wolf: see Schmidt, Billingsley I like however.

 

Uh, the D'Rays had the worst record in baseball last year. Arizona would kill them in a series.

 

Yeah playing the Yanks, Sox, and Jays. I forgot about the DBacks rotation so I take that back somewhat. However, they would get 10 more wins if they were set in the NL West at least, and if Kazmzir was healthy.

 

Orioles/Giants. I hate both of them. Big deal.

 

 

I don't want to sound like seabeachfred, but I'm certain I know about baseball than you. Take off your red-colored homer glasses next time you want to discuss MLB.

 

Have a discussion with you about MLB? A little hypocritical I feel. All you do is argue about seabeachfred and how we banned your friends. And what shortcomings or faults of my team did I ignore to make myself a homer? I'm simply countering your posts and am saying the NL West blows but if that makes me a homer than back at ya.

[schillingouttheks]

Reds are not bad' date=' Cubs are going to be better.[/quote']

 

You forgot to say that the World Series Champion St. Louis Cardinals are in that division as well. Still, though, I'm with Linda in that the NL Central is the basement of the basement.

 

I think the strength of divisions goes in this order:

 

AL Central

AL East

NL East

AL West

NL West

NL Central

[Cityofchampions33]

You forgot to say that the World Series Champion St. Louis Cardinals are in that division as well. Still, though, I'm with Linda in that the NL Central is the basement of the basement.

 

I think the strength of divisions goes in this order:

 

AL Central

AL East

NL East

AL West

NL West

NL Central

 

The NL West certianly got its boost this off-season getting a major pitching re-haul. I was talking solely last year. For this eyar, in terms of divison strength, Id put it like this:

 

AL Central

AL East

Nl East

[Tie] NL West (One of the better pitching divisons), AL West (Depends on Rangers, A's)

NL Central

 

Last year: I ahev your same exact list.

[schillingouttheks]

The NL West certianly got its boost this off-season getting a major pitching re-haul. I was talking solely last year. For this eyar, in terms of divison strength, Id put it like this:

 

AL Central

AL East

Nl East

[Tie] NL West (One of the better pitching divisons), AL West (Depends on Rangers, A's)

NL Central

 

Last year: I ahev your same exact list.

 

The one you just posted basically is the same exact list...

 

If we're going off of last year, I'd say this:

 

AL Central

AL East

NL East

NL West

AL West

NL Central

 

The AL West was god-awful last year. I still don't know how the A's managed to beat the Twins.

[Cityofchampions33]

The one you just posted basically is the same exact list...

 

Well, only reason I bumped the NL West into a tie with the AL West is because they brought in a bunch of good pitchers (Zito, Johnson, Maddux, Wells, Wolf)

[Linda]

Reds are not bad' date=' Cubs are going to be better.[/quote']

Cubs were last place in the NL last season. Overpaying for a mediocre Lilly does not make them into a contending team.

 

The NL West certianly got its boost this off-season getting a major pitching re-haul. I was talking solely last year.

Yeah sure, that's why you mentioned the Cubs are better this year. Nice backtracking.

 

Schmidt has seen better days' date=' Lowe was our #3, Penny had a 4.33 ERA in the NL West, Randy Wolf: see Schmidt, Billingsley I like however.[/quote']

Hmmm, Schmidt is an ace for any team he is on. Lowe was dynamite down the stretch last year (player of the month), Penny was the NL All-Star starting pitcher but got hurt -- he'll be fine, Wolf came back from TJ surgery and didn't lose a game all season. Then you have depth with Billingsley, Kuo, and Hendrickson.

 

I mean, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? How do you figure Wolf has seen better days? It doesn't get much better then the half-season he had last year.

 

All you do is argue about seabeachfred and how we banned your friends.

Not quite, but if you want to want to make such broad generalizations then I can make mine and call you a homer.

[Cityofchampions33]

Cubs were last place in the NL last season. Overpaying for a mediocre Lilly does not make them into a contending team.

 

Yeah, Soriano is no factor here whatsoever. Same with Mark DeRosa, Marquis, Cliff Floyd, etc.

 

Hmmm, Schmidt is an ace for any team he is on. Lowe was dynamite down the stretch last year (player of the month), Penny was the NL All-Star starting pitcher but got hurt -- he'll be fine, Wolf came back from TJ surgery and didn't lose a game all season. Then you have depth with Billingsley, Kuo, and Hendrickson.

 

Schmidt is my boy but he wouldn't be a number 1 on this team. Yeah, Lowe should be dynamite in that division, we all saw his headcase moments over here. Last season was Penny's first where he got double digit wins since 03, not to mention he's only pitched more than 200 innings in a year once. Wolf also had a +5 ERA and is entering the wrong side of 30.

 

I mean, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? How do you figure Wolf has seen better days? It doesn't get much better then the half-season he had last year.

 

I don't know, maybe the injuries since 03? Maybe that he has 48 starts since 04 (had 89 the 3 seasons prior to that) Also you can note his ERA going up ever since 03.

 

Not quite, but if you want to want to make such broad generalizations then I can make mine and call you a homer.

 

How does stating that your division has been weak the prior year(s) (while saying it's gotten betetr this off-season), and saying our rotation is betetr than yours make me a homer?

[BSN07]

Is Linda still spewing her Dodger propaganda around?

[ORS]

I mean' date=' seriously, where do you come up with this stuff? How do you figure Wolf has seen better days? It doesn't get much better then the half-season he had last year. [/quote']

It doesn't get much better than this for a half season?

W   L   ERA   IP    WHIP   K/9   HR/9
4   0   5.56  56.2  1.69   6.98  2.06

Doesn't get much better than that? Holy s***, is that setting the bar low. That f***ing sucks.

[ORS]

To further iterate the point. Wolf had 2, just 2, quality starts in 12 games pitched. As good as it gets? f***ing hilarious.

[BSN07]

Linda is one of those fans(I use that term lightly) that looks at wins and losses and no other stats. Same types just pay attention to BA HR and RBI for hitters ignoring, OBP, OPS win shares and all the others.

 

5.56 ERA? hahaha I know some of our guys aren't the greatest but holy s*** if you think thats a goos ERA for half a yr then you have more issues...

[Rodney Harrison]

I don't know you seem to know quite a lot about their forum' date=' if you think we're fools we're not, you'll get filtered out soon enough. Also on the Dodgers making the playoffs last year, you must remember thats in a total s*** division (NL West) in a s*** league (The National). Yes, it's a real accomplishment making the playoffs having to play Arizona, Colorado, Pirates, The Nats, Marlins, and last year's Braves multiple times. If we were placed in any NL division we'd own.[/quote']

 

I've said it a lot of times here. The NL West last year was the same as the AL East from 1999-2005. Was the AL East a s*** division then, too?

 

I know about Dodger Blues, but I don't let the few DB people that come here influence my view on the team.

[Rodney Harrison]

Colorado is in the West too.

 

The DBacks, Marlins, and Braves were all in the hunt because .500 was good enough to be in the playoff race. Not so in the AL.

 

88-74 was enough to make the playoffs, and even then, the Dodgers finished three games ahead of the Phillies.

 

The difference between the AL and NL isn't as big as people would like it to be.

[Rodney Harrison]

Reds are not bad, Cubs are going to be better.

 

Reds are not bad? LA season-swept them last year. The Cubs? We're talking about 2006, not what you think the future will hold for them.

[Linda]

Yeah' date=' Soriano is no factor here whatsoever. Same with Mark DeRosa, Marquis, Cliff Floyd, etc. [/quote']

DeRosa??? C'mon, he sucks. (Whether he plays RF or 2B, 13 HR and 4 SB isn't going to get it done), Marquis is average, and Floyd is more injury prone than JD Drew. People are severely overrating this team. Don't forget they were the worst team in the NL last year, losing all of those while playing half of their games against the shittiest division in baseball.

 

How does stating that your division has been weak the prior year(s) (while saying it's gotten betetr this off-season)' date=' and saying our rotation is betetr than yours make me a homer?[/quote']

I dunno, maybe the following generalizations from you would qualify:

-- The Devil Rays would be in the playoffs in the NL

-- Lowe was a headcase 3 years ago in Boston, therefore he must suck for LA, despite the stats.

etc.

[Rodney Harrison]

Let me get this straight. Wolf won't help the Dodgers, but Marquis will help the Cubs? His ERA was 6.02 over a full season and he didn't win a game at all after August.

 

Fuzzy logic, indeed.

[Linda]

Linda is one of those fans(I use that term lightly) that looks at wins and losses and no other stats. Same types just pay attention to BA HR and RBI for hitters ignoring, OBP, OPS win shares and all the others.

 

5.56 ERA? hahaha I know some of our guys aren't the greatest but holy s*** if you think thats a goos ERA for half a yr then you have more issues...

 

I understand how OBP and OPS work (I've read Moneyball too), but maybe having DePodesta f*** up my team for two years has turned me off from that idea. I'm more of a traditionalist.

 

In regards to Wolf, a 4-0 record is nice. His ERA will drop playing in LA, and he will have the run support from the second highest scoring team in the NL. He's also playing in front of his home crowd, and that may help him to improve. I certainly think he'll be better this year.

[ORS]

Whether or not you like what DePo did for Los Dodgers, that doesn't mean modern statistical analysis should be ignored. You shouldn't like OBP and OPS because some crap book told you to, you should like them because they hold more value than BA. They correlate to runs scored more than BA does, thus they are better stats to use for analytical purposes.

 

Same thing holds for pitching stats. W/L and Save compilations mean dick to analyzing pitcher performance. Wolf's 4-0 record had very little to do with how he pitched, and a whole lot to do with the good offense supporting him.

 

Speaking of good offenses, LA was 4th in RS in the NL last year, not 2nd. Didn't really think you'd slip that one by, did you?

 

Just so you know, LA lead the NL in BA, but slipped to 3rd in OPS (one point from 4th). In fact, 1-2-3-4 in RS finished 1-2-4-3 in OPS, but were 6-2-8-1 in BA. See how the OPS rankings line up nicely with the actual runs scored? Funny how that works.

[Linda]

Whether or not you like what DePo did for Los Dodgers, that doesn't mean modern statistical analysis should be ignored. You shouldn't like OBP and OPS because some crap book told you to, you should like them because they hold more value than BA. They correlate to runs scored more than BA does, thus they are better stats to use for analytical purposes.

 

Same thing holds for pitching stats. W/L and Save compilations mean dick to analyzing pitcher performance. Wolf's 4-0 record had very little to do with how he pitched, and a whole lot to do with the good offense supporting him.

 

Speaking of good offenses, LA was 4th in RS in the NL last year, not 2nd. Didn't really think you'd slip that one by, did you?

 

Just so you know, LA lead the NL in BA, but slipped to 3rd in OPS (one point from 4th). In fact, 1-2-3-4 in RS finished 1-2-4-3 in OPS, but were 6-2-8-1 in BA. See how the OPS rankings line up nicely with the actual runs scored? Funny how that works.

I was under the impression (and have heard several times) that only the Mets scored more runs than LA. If not, then that's news to me.

[Cityofchampions33]

DeRosa??? C'mon' date=' he sucks. (Whether he plays RF or 2B, 13 HR and 4 SB isn't going to get it done), Marquis is average, and Floyd is more injury prone than JD Drew. People are severely overrating this team. Don't forget they were the worst team in the NL last year, losing all of those while playing half of their games against the shittiest division in baseball.[/quote']

 

Well, if you think Wolf had a "fantastic half-a-season" then you must be jerkin off to what DeRosa did last year. Marquis is decent, Floyd is their back-up so he can get injrued all he wants. ALso, I never said they would become NL gods, I was merely stating they ahve gotten better. Soriano and Aramis are a good place to start.

 

I dunno, maybe the following generalizations from you would qualify:

-- The Devil Rays would be in the playoffs in the NL

-- Lowe was a headcase 3 years ago in Boston, therefore he must suck for LA, despite the stats.

etc.

 

Yes, I think the Rays would stand a chance if they were put in the NL last year, especially if Kazmir stayed healthy.

Never said Lowe sucks, but your statement "our rotation is leaps and bounds ahead of yours" is very wrong. If after Schmidt you have a bunch of #3/4's than yes I'd say ours is betetr than yours.

[Cityofchampions33]

Let me get this straight. Wolf won't help the Dodgers' date=' but Marquis will help the Cubs? His ERA was 6.02 [i']over a full season[/i] and he didn't win a game at all after August.

 

Fuzzy logic, indeed.

 

Never said he was an ace, but it's a start for last season's worst NL team.

[Metropolitan Cowboy]

Yes, I think the Rays would stand a chance if they were put in the NL last year, especially if Kazmir stayed healthy.

 

The NL west was stacked with pitching last year. The D-Backs were led by Webb who has the best sinker in baseball. The giants had Schmitt, and Cain, and San Diego was also very deep on pitching. The Dodgers had Penny, Lowe, Bills, and Maddux. How the hell are the D-Rays going to have a chance if they cannot score any runs? Yeah, and if Kazmir was heathy he would not be Kazmir. That is like saying if JD Drew was heathy he will become the next Ted Willams.

[SuperManny]

This is the dumbest f***ing thread BTW. I like both signings so how about an third option that says "Go f*** Yourself, they're both good"?

[redsoxrules]

This is the dumbest f***ing thread BTW. I like both signings so how about an third option that says "Go f*** Yourself' date=' they're both good"?[/quote']

 

yeah i said the same thing myself i like both signings and i think they will do really good this year for the sox

[Linda]

The NL west was stacked with pitching last year. The D-Backs were led by Webb who has the best sinker in baseball. The giants had Schmitt' date=' and Cain, and San Diego was also very deep on pitching. The Dodgers had Penny, Lowe, Bills, and Maddux. How the hell are the D-Rays going to have a chance if they cannot score any runs? Yeah, and if Kazmir was heathy he would not be Kazmir. That is like saying if JD Drew was heathy he will become the next Ted Willams.[/quote']

He didn't even say NL West. He said they would compete among the top teams in the entire NL. LMAO.

[Rodney Harrison]

Never said he was an ace' date=' but it's a start for last season's worst NL team.[/quote']

Signing a guy with a 6.02 ERA, a 1.52 WHIP is not an upgrade, no matter how you look at it, especially if people are trashing the Wolf signing.

[Metropolitan Cowboy]

Signing a guy with a 6.02 ERA' date=' a 1.52 WHIP is not an upgrade, no matter how you look at it, especially if people are trashing the Wolf signing.[/quote']

 

 

 

The funny thing is Wolf had several 2-3 year deals on the table, but he turned them down and signed with the Dodgers at a home town discount for one year and a team option for another. His signing is a very low risk/high reward deal for the Dodgers. If you look at the stats of pitchers after TJ sugery you will notice that it takes about 1-1/2 to 2 years to recover, and that is just when the Dodgers picked him up.

 

I guess you can say he is the complete oppsite of JD Drew. The only thing JD cares about is his bank account. I would not hold your breath on him runnning full speed into a wall to make a play knowing that it will void the final two years on his contract. He will play more games then Trot did, but Nixon did leave it all on the field.

[Cityofchampions33]

He didn't even say NL West. He said they would compete among the top teams in the entire NL. LMAO.

 

When did I say that? But yeah, I think the Rays could manage a .500 record in the NL, which is essentially enough to have a chance in last year's wild card hunt.

[Cityofchampions33]

Signing a guy with a 6.02 ERA' date=' a 1.52 WHIP is not an upgrade, no matter how you look at it, especially if people are trashing the Wolf signing.[/quote']

 

The two signings are different in itself. Marquis not only has 3 years on Wolf but the two years previous to the 6.02 had a high three/low four ERA respectively. Wolf meanwhile is a health ? and ahs been for awhile.

[Rodney Harrison]

Marquis' WHIP is still s***, and the number of HR's allowed was the worst in 2006 and it's gone up since he was traded for Drew. His K's have gone down and he gives up almost a hit per inning.

 

He is still not an upgrade.