To get a closer

[hoke3182]

I was just wondering what we would have to give up to get a closer? Now that Texas signed Gagne could we get Otsuka at a reduced rate? Also what are the Nationals looking for in return for Cordero, and likewise with Lidge and the Astros.

[ebouvier]

I was just wondering what we would have to give up to get a closer? Now that Texas signed Gagne could we get Otsuka at a reduced rate? Also what are the Nationals looking for in return for Cordero' date=' and likewise with Lidge and the Astros.[/quote']

 

There is no such thing as a reduced rate. All Gagne might mean is that Otsuka might be available. To get a closer now you are going to have to give up talent.

[Papelbon58]

if you remember, there was a rumor of us acquiring Cordero in a big 3 way manny deal. Then it was Coco and a prospect I believe.

 

Lidge has not gone through any formal offers. Otsuka is just getting on the market. It will take Coco and a good prospect or several prospects to get any of them, unless we trade a good major leaguer (not likely)

[jacksonianmarch]

Predictions are pouring in but the rumor front is quiet.

 

I could see the sox going status quo until ST, then acquiring Otsuka during april once gagne shows he can still pitch without his arm coming off. If that doesnt happen, then I dont think the sox will nab a known closer, but rather deal for a quality MR and hope and pray he can cut it in Boston of all places.

[a700hitter]

I don't remember if anyone posted a response, but awhile back I asked if anyone heard about Philadelphia's plans for Tom Gordon. He'd be a good one or two year bridge to a younger closer.

[SCM33]

I don't remember if anyone posted a response' date=' but awhile back I asked if anyone heard about Philadelphia's plans for Tom Gordon. He'd be a good one or two year bridge to a younger closer.[/quote']

 

After hearing stories about him in the 2004 ALCS puking in the bullpen waiting to come in to the game, I have a hard time believing he can get it done in Boston again with the game on the line during the playoffs.....regular season, maybe. But im not sure if Flash is worht that risk...

[SCM33]

...that being said, I dont think I would want Otsuka either.

 

Im still wondering if we dont go get another SP somehow and just let Paps close.....as it has been thrown around recently...

[Fried Neckbones]

Yeah, I used to think that Paps was the closer of the future, and that his talent would be wasted in the rotation. Now, I'm not so sure. A couple of things to consider. There are ways to structure a bullpen without an ace closer. Look at the Tigers with Tod Jones and Zumaya. Yeah, Zumaya is a huge stud and will probably close in a year or two, but Detroit could also be seen a a prototype new bullpen - the closer by comittee that actually works. Also, picture this scenario. 5th inning, 2-1 Sox lead, Paps on the hill. Runners on the corners, no outs. Paps steps off the mound, looks at the ground, takes a deep breath, and switches to "closer mode". Thousand yard stare, fist pumps, the whole nine yards. Strikeout, strikeout, feeble pop up. Inning over. Now that's something that I could live with in a starter. Keep the man in the rotation.

 

That being said, I have no idea who can close at this point. The upshot is that, IMO, they don't need to land an absolute stud closer. Just someone who won't freeze up in Boston and crumble under the considerable pressure.

[TGov]

...that being said, I dont think I would want Otsuka either.

 

Im still wondering if we dont go get another SP somehow and just let Paps close.....as it has been thrown around recently...

 

No... sure at the beginning of the off-season i thought Papelbon could close next year, but when i heard he may have arm injuries in the future from closing, I thought from that point I dont want our 26 yr old Starting pitcher who is SO dominate(I no he was dominate closing games but whos to say he not going to bring that to starting one) retire early or just not be commanding for the rest of his career... but really why risk that when all you have to do is get a one or two year closer to hold off Hansen until hes ready...:dunno:

[SCM33]

A. I think there are some serious doubts about Hansen.

 

B. There is little evidence about Papelbon being so dominant as you say as a starting pitcher since he has only started 48 games in 4 years including college. I dont see how being a closer really is worse for his arm considering thats really all he did in college, some in the minors and last year in Boston.

[Fried Neckbones]

I'm not saying that he would be a bad closer. He would be a really good closer. But in my opinion, he has more value to the organization as a starter than as a closer when there are other ways to structure a bullpen.

 

And I agree about Hansen. Someone who looks as terrified as he did last year has serious question marks attatched to him.

[TGov]

A. I think there are some serious doubts about Hansen.

 

B. There is little evidence about Papelbon being so dominant as you say as a starting pitcher since he has only started 48 games in 4 years including college. I dont see how being a closer really is worse for his arm considering thats really all he did in college, some in the minors and last year in Boston.

 

How isnt closing worse for his arm? that's the reason hes going to be a starter this year because of what happened last year..... remember, he got injured in September... cuz his arm was to fatigued...

 

and about Hansen, I know theres doubt but all they've been saying is hes the closer of the future so I wanna see if he is... I think he's worth a shot...

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't remember if anyone posted a response' date=' but awhile back I asked if anyone heard about Philadelphia's plans for Tom Gordon. He'd be a good one or two year bridge to a younger closer.[/quote']

 

Gordon wont be moved. It was talked about mildly, but the phillies would want a young closer in return.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, I used to think that Paps was the closer of the future, and that his talent would be wasted in the rotation. Now, I'm not so sure. A couple of things to consider. There are ways to structure a bullpen without an ace closer. Look at the Tigers with Tod Jones and Zumaya. Yeah, Zumaya is a huge stud and will probably close in a year or two, but Detroit could also be seen a a prototype new bullpen - the closer by comittee that actually works. Also, picture this scenario. 5th inning, 2-1 Sox lead, Paps on the hill. Runners on the corners, no outs. Paps steps off the mound, looks at the ground, takes a deep breath, and switches to "closer mode". Thousand yard stare, fist pumps, the whole nine yards. Strikeout, strikeout, feeble pop up. Inning over. Now that's something that I could live with in a starter. Keep the man in the rotation.

 

That being said, I have no idea who can close at this point. The upshot is that, IMO, they don't need to land an absolute stud closer. Just someone who won't freeze up in Boston and crumble under the considerable pressure.

 

detroit does not have a closer by committee. Todd Jones is their closer. Zumaya is their set up man.

[Fried Neckbones]

detroit does not have a closer by committee. Todd Jones is their closer. Zumaya is their set up man.

 

It was more a comment on the fact that the best pitcher in the 'pen does not have to be the closer for the 'pen to be effective. You can get by with a solidified closer who is not the stud reliever on your team - the Tigers with Jones, the Angels with whoever the hell was closing when K-Rod was their set-up guy. I was trying to demonstrate the point that the Sox don't necessarily need to go balls out to land the top closer on the market, just someone who is competent.

[BSN07]

It was more a comment on the fact that the best pitcher in the 'pen does not have to be the closer for the 'pen to be effective. You can get by with a solidified closer who is not the stud reliever on your team - the Tigers with Jones' date=' the Angels with whoever the hell was closing when K-Rod was their set-up guy. I was trying to demonstrate the point that the Sox don't necessarily need to go balls out to land the top closer on the market, just someone who is competent.[/quote']

 

Troy Percival

[Fried Neckbones]

Troy Percival

 

Thanks. I'm pretty hung over, and the coffee has yet to kick in.

[jacksonianmarch]

FN, I see your point, but those teams have multiple lights out relievers. The sox currently, dont have any.

[Fried Neckbones]

FN' date=' I see your point, but those teams have multiple lights out relievers. The sox currently, dont have any.[/quote']

 

Believe me, I know. Oh boy, do I know. But with the pool of "lights out" closers shrinking, it may be time for the Sox to be looking at new ways of structuring the pen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Believe me' date=' I know. Oh boy, do I know. But with the pool of "lights out" closers shrinking, it may be time for the Sox to be looking at new ways of structuring the pen.[/quote']

 

there is only so much you can do when your bulding blocks are crap, s*** and poop.

[BSN07]

Red Sox Targeting Closer?

The Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo has a J.D. Drew update for us. It may be that Boras does not want to revise Drew's contract given that Boras's surgeon gave Drew's shoulder the thumbs up.

 

More intriguing is a line at the end of the post - the Red Sox are targeting a trade for a closer and are targeting one of Chad Cordero, Brad Lidge, and Mike Gonzalez.

 

 

Out of the three I would take Cordero 1st. He's the youngest, cheapest, and has the biggest upside. He will probably cost the most in a trade but he is the one thats worth it.

[jacksonianmarch]

they can target a closer from those three teams all they want. They dont have a match unless they get really creative. I'm not even sure they have enough when you throw in the lower level kids. Gonzalez will take a lefty power bat. The sox dont have that. The braves have one available, but they will have to be a match for them, and they arent. Washington wants MLB ready pitching and power. They have the power in WiMP. They dont have the MLB ready pitching. Houston also wants pitching, mlb ready starters and they dont have it.

[hoke3182]

This is off the subject a little, but what's up with Clement, wil he pitch this year and does he have any value.

[hoke3182]

meaning trade value

[jacksonianmarch]

no and none

[BSN07]

Ya jackson has it pegged, don't expect to see anything of Clement before the AS break at the very earliest. He had pretty major surgery. I'd like to see him come back and be what he was in Chicago, but probably not, but there is also the possibility he sucked because of his shoulder( I'm not holding my breath tho)

[riverside sluggers]

they can target a closer from those three teams all they want. They dont have a match unless they get really creative. I'm not even sure they have enough when you throw in the lower level kids. Gonzalez will take a lefty power bat. The sox dont have that. The braves have one available' date=' but they will have to be a match for them, and they arent. Washington wants MLB ready pitching and power. They have the power in WiMP. They dont have the MLB ready pitching. Houston also wants pitching, mlb ready starters and they dont have it.[/quote']

 

Yeah teams want nothing to do with Sox's top prospects if they offered them willingly. I see youre still under the belief that Timlin will be the opening day closer

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah teams want nothing to do with Sox's top prospects if they offered them willingly. I see youre still under the belief that Timlin will be the opening day closer

 

No, I believe they will be fleeced for a mid level closer.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

No' date=' I believe they will be fleeced for a mid level closer.[/quote']

 

Pretty much, I think you're correct. Why is it that the Sox have a propensity to make public their weakness's, then wonder why they get screwed trying to fill them ? Examples : We need a SS, we need a center fielder, we need a SS again, we need a power hitting corner outfielder, we need...............

[jacksonianmarch]

agreed. The sox have the problem of overstating their needs to a point to where they put themselves in a horrible position. You are at your best when you have a need, but you are in no hurry to fill it. The sox continually make public their needs and set artificial deadlines on when they need them filled. It makes it real easy to get fleeced.