You guys were right.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06349/746359-63.stm

 

sounds like the sox are trying to center a deal around Eric Hinske to get Gonzalez from PIT. The braves appear to be offering LaRoche, but they are asking for another player to come along with Gonzalez. As far as the yankee interest, it seems to be minimal, as there appears to be no interest in NY for dealing Melky Cabrera, and he would be a necessity in any trade talks.

[elsrbueno]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06349/746359-63.stm

 

sounds like the sox are trying to center a deal around Eric Hinske to get Gonzalez from PIT. The braves appear to be offering LaRoche, but they are asking for another player to come along with Gonzalez. As far as the yankee interest, it seems to be minimal, as there appears to be no interest in NY for dealing Melky Cabrera, and he would be a necessity in any trade talks.

 

I think one of my greatest strengths as a baseball fan is to look at things objectively and NOT through "Red Sox colored" glasses. I don't deny my fandom, but I don't let it cloud my judgement.

 

This guy very simply is not worth Coco Crisp or Wily Mo Pena. He's a risk because of his health concerns, the fact that he's spent his whole career (other than a couple days in the Red Sox organization after being part of a botched Suppan trade that had to be redone) in Pittsburgh which is in a weak NL Central with no DH and very little fan pressure. Not to mention his strikeout totals are down (slightly) and his walk totals are up (A LOT). His ERA (2.34) in my mind is deceptive. That having been said although he is a risk he also has potential, but that potential isn't as valuable in my mind as an everyday player like Crisp or Pena (or LaRoche for that matter). If the Pirates can get Adam LaRoche for Gonzalez they should jump on it-- but I don't think they will because of the concerns I've mentioned above.

 

Eric Hinske is not a great player and has never lived up to the hype. However, he does have solid on base ability and position flexability and has some value. Hinske + a mid-level prospect is a fair price for Mike Gonzalez.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here is the thing about Gonzalez that will drive his price up. The guy was perfect in save opps last yr.

[BSN07]

Hinske and a mid level prospect? Doesn't sound too bad, Hinske will have a hard time seeing playing time as it stands now.

[ORS]

Jacko, do you wear protection for the jewels when you hop back and forth over the fence? I thought he wasn't worth much when the Yankees were considered to be going after him. You are losing any cred you may have had when you change your opinion faster than a politician with a fresh set of polling data.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jacko' date=' do you wear protection for the jewels when you hop back and forth over the fence? I thought he wasn't worth much when the Yankees were considered to be going after him. You are losing any cred you may have had when you change your opinion faster than a politician with a fresh set of polling data.[/quote']

 

 

I never said he wasnt worth much. I just dont think he was worth a solid, durable bullpen guy plus a 21 yr old CFer coming off a successful rookie season in the majors.

Also, I think someone will certainly overpay for him, and the pirates will be sure to bilk anyone who eventually gets him. As far as area of need, he is not a serious area of need for the yankees. For the sox, he is a serious area of need. Now if the deal on the table is Him and Castillo for LaRoche, I hope the yankees do not even try to outbid. That is already a deal shaded heavily in favor of the pirates. So, in order to land him, you'll have to beat that. Go ahead, I'd rather you do it than the yankees do that.

[Cocos Disciples]

If we do Hinske and a mid-spect, that'd be miraculous robbery.

[CrespoBlows]

They did trade for Shaun Chacon.....

 

Oh, they did reject a trade for Ryan Howard..

 

And who can forget trading Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill.

 

This is expected, if you don't rip off the Pirates at least once a year, you are a inadequte general manager.

[Beckett95]

They did trade for Shaun Chacon.....

 

Oh, they did reject a trade for Ryan Howard..

 

And who can forget trading Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill.

 

This is expected, if you don't rip off the Pirates at least once a year, you are a inadequte general manager.

 

Last time we traded with the Pirates...

 

July 31, 2003: Jeff Suppan, Brandon Lyon and Anastacio Martinez traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates to the Boston Red Sox for Mike Gonzalez, Freddy Sanchez, and cash.

 

deal worked out real well for the Sox

[jacksonianmarch]

They did trade for Shaun Chacon.....

 

Oh, they did reject a trade for Ryan Howard..

 

And who can forget trading Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill.

 

This is expected, if you don't rip off the Pirates at least once a year, you are a inadequte general manager.

 

so if you get ripped off by the pirates, does that make you a really bad GM?

[ORS]

Lyon was in the original deal to get Gonzalez, but they had to trade him back because Lyon failed his physical.

 

From Lyon's bb-ref page...

 

July 22, 2003: Traded by the Boston Red Sox with Anastacio Martinez to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Mike Gonzalez and Scott Sauerbeck.

 

July 31, 2003: Traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates with Anastacio Martinez and Jeff Suppan to the Boston Red Sox for Mike Gonzalez, Freddy Sanchez, and cash.

 

November 28, 2003: Traded by the Boston Red Sox with Michael Goss (minors), Casey Fossum, and Jorge de la Rosa to the Arizona Diamondbacks for Curt Schilling.

 

The last one is included to show they actually found good use for Lyon in the long run.

[CrespoBlows]

so if you get ripped off by the pirates' date=' does that make you a really bad GM?[/quote']

 

Yeah, like Suppan to the Red Sox for Sanchez.

 

(Though Suppan could have pitched better had they resigned him.)

[Beckett95]

how about

 

TO ATL: Crisp (plays left this year, then next year moves to CF) Hinske (good utility player for them)

 

TO BOS: Gonzalez (gives us a closer) Nady (good RH bat off the bench who can play 1B/OF)

 

TO PIT: Laroche (best player in the deal) Langerhans/Diaz (gives them some OF depth which they could use)

[jacksonianmarch]

Crisp and Hinske for Nady and Gonzalez. That sounds like a lot for a journeyman right handed version of Hinske and a lefty with injury issues.

 

I was thinking straight up, Hinske plus a pitching prospect (one of the B's) gets it done straight up.

[elsrbueno]

how about

 

TO ATL: Crisp (plays left this year, then next year moves to CF) Hinske (good utility player for them)

 

TO BOS: Gonzalez (gives us a closer) Nady (good RH bat off the bench who can play 1B/OF)

 

TO PIT: Laroche (best player in the deal) Langerhans/Diaz (gives them some OF depth which they could use)

 

I honestly don't like the idea of trading Crisp for Gonzalez. In my mind, you're buying low on Gonzalez because of his arm injury (assuming he's healthy). The whole idea of buying low is giving up less than what he's worth. Because Crisp is at a low point in his value, selling low on him (IMO) is a bad idea. It would be smarter to hang on to him for a year, have him spend a healthy full season in Boston (and he'll be an excellent player IMO) and THEN if Ellsbury looks ready trade him when he's at a much higher value. If Ellsbury isn't (which is a possibility), keep him since he's signed cheaply.

 

I still think the Hinske+mid-level prospect for Gonzalez is fair value on both sides. That having been said, the Pirates should probably hold onto him and do the same thing I suggested above-- let him start the season healthy and (in theory) effective and either trade him in July or after a full season-- when he'll be back up in value.

[TheKilo]

Crisp for Gonzalez is really buying low. For all the people who were defending Crisp this past year it seems he's being shown the door rather quickly.

[BSN07]

Melky Cabrera For Mike Gonzalez?

John Perrotto of the Beaver County Times reports that the Yankees is the most likely destination for southpaw reliever Mike Gonzalez. Apparently Brian Cashman is willing to part with 22 year-old outfielder Melky Cabrera straight up.

 

 

And here I thought the Yankees where going to start using there talented young players instead of shipping them off.

[jacksonianmarch]

in their defense, Gonzalez isnt exactly old, he'll be 29 in may and he is controlled for 3 more seasons. But I agree, I dont like this deal. The yankees have enough bullpen and they have a ton of young kids who could use that last BP spot to mature. This will kill that chance.

[Beckett95]

PIT already turned down Chad Tracy for Gonzalez. I dont know if Crisp, Hinske and a prospect would even get a deal done

[a700hitter]

PIT already turned down Chad Tracy for Gonzalez. I dont know if Crisp' date=' Hinske and a prospect would even get a deal done[/quote']I don't think he is worth it. Let the Yankees give up Melky, so they have to keep the aging relic, Bernie Williams for one more year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think he is worth it. Let the Yankees give up Melky' date=' so they have to keep the aging relic, Bernie Williams for one more year.[/quote']

 

I love Bernie Williams. But the time to retire is now. He had a nice sendoff season where he played a ton, but he has to see the writing on the wall. Please, Bernie, quit while the fans still have memories of your greatness, not of this old has been shell.

[Rdsxmbnt]

theres no way they take just melky if they turned down chad tracey

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think the Pirates want an arb eligible player who will likely make a ton of money. Also, he took a major turn for the worse last yr in SLG and K's. Other than that, I have no clue why they would turn that down.

[BSN07]

Report now is Gonzalez to NYY, Melky to ATL, and Laroche to PITT.

[Rdsxmbnt]

where did u hear that and why the hell would the pirates trade Laroche for Melky.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dunno. If that is the case then why the hell dont the yankees take LaRoche??

 

I think this is all gonna be a big smokescreen. The Braves want Gonzalez as do the yankees. The Pirates are gonna want more then Melky and the Yankees wont want to part with more than him. The Braves are gonna want more than Gonzalez for LaRoche. Unless there are some other parts moving, I dont see this being something that gets done (hope and pray).

[Beckett95]

what about trading Hinske for Torres/Capps

 

Torres over the last 3 years:

94 IP (per year)

2.89 ERA

1.26 WHIP

2.02 GO/AO

1.98 K/BB

.250 BAA

 

dont know if he could be the closer, but he could help out

[Cocos Disciples]

If we can't package Hinske with a prospect for a closer I would do that deal.

[Plumpamania]

How about Crisp, Edgar Martinez and Tavarez for Lidge and Lane?

[Cocos Disciples]

Martinez and Tavarez have nil trade value.