Sox/Yanks battle for Pirates' Mike Gonzalez

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12122006/sports/yankees/yanks__bosox_gun_for_buc_yankees_george_king.htm

 

Seems we have ourselves a showdown here...

 

Yankees are said to be offering Melky Cabrera & Scott Proctor

 

Sox are said to be offering Coco Crisp

[jacksonianmarch]

nobody should do this. Gonzalez cannot stay healthy and they refused to provide medical documents to the braves in their negotiations. At the same time, Proctor is more valuable IMO than Gonzalez and throwing Cabrera in would be assinine. You can have him.

[riverside sluggers]

nobody should do this. Gonzalez cannot stay healthy and they refused to provide medical documents to the braves in their negotiations. At the same time' date=' Proctor is more valuable IMO than Gonzalez and throwing Cabrera in would be assinine. You can have him.[/quote']

 

I like your idea of the 40 year old Timlin as closer much better

[jacksonianmarch]

My idea, I dont really have an idea for the sox. My idea would have included Danys Baez or Eric Gagne. Now that those 2 are gone, I would be lost for words. My idea would be a trade of magnificent proportions, with Manny likely being the big chip.

[elsrbueno]

the last 2 years Gonzalez K's/9 are down and his BB's/9 are up. His health is a concern by itself, but 30 walks in 50 innings (which is what he did in both of the last 2 years) is a recipe for disaster in the AL East IMO.

 

I wouldn't give up Crisp by himself for Gonzalez let alone Crisp+.

 

On the same token, Cabrera + Proctor is too much for this guy. It's a sign for how bad the market's going that these two teams are even CONSIDERING trading everyday talent for an average reliever.

[riverside sluggers]

My idea would be a trade of magnificent proportions' date=' with Manny likely being the big chip.[/quote']

 

And wanting Manny out of the AL East would have nothing to do with that, right?

[Cocos Disciples]

I would jump on that deal. Pena moves to center, or right with Drew in center...the outfield is still pretty damn good, if not even better (offensively...WMP worries me wonders in the field)...Gonzalez is young, had a fantastic year in 2006.

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I think the sox have to look at what they have before they really start dealing. They have a lot of young talent on the roster coming off bad yrs or having their stock low. Paps is the only guy with high stock and I dont think anyone on here will advocate dealing him. Nabbing a closer will force the sox to sell low if they deal Crisp or WMP, which is something that leaves mday morning quarterbacks fodder to nail Theo to the wall. Instead of packaging a bunch of prospects together and getting a closer, then watching those guys blossom in another location, they should sell off a big entity for multiple parts and get what they need. Like I said, I NEVER would have traded Manny at the beginning of this thing, but now that the only reliable or semi-reliable relievers are gone and theo only nabbed a lefty specialist japanese pitcher, they may be left with no other retort.

[ARod2212]

There is no way he's worth Proctor and Melky. Next rumor.

[Beckett95]

I read that the Sox would deal Crisp to ATL, Laroche goes to PIT and Gonzalez goes to BOS. The braves want a little more

[Rdsxmbnt]

I wouldnt mind a Crisp for Gonzalez deal, mostly because it garuntees that WMP has a spot in the OF and lineup and I tihnk WMP as the 6th hitter is much more valuable than having Coco in the 8th spot. Lineup:

1. Youk 1B

2. Lugo SS

3. Ortiz DH

4. Manny LF

5. Drew RF/CF

6. Pena RF/CF

7. Lowell 3B

8. Varitek C

9. Pedroia 2B

 

bullpen:

CL Gonzalez

Set-up Timlin

MR Delcarmen

MR Okajima

MR Lopez/Hansen/Breslow

LR Tavarez

 

and Theo sign Matsuzaka at all costs

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I wouldnt mind a Crisp for Gonzalez deal, mostly because it garuntees that WMP has a spot in the OF and lineup and I tihnk WMP as the 6th hitter is much more valuable than having Coco in the 8th spot.

 

and Theo sign Matsuzaka at all costs

 

I agree with both of these statements whole heartedly but don't think Gonzalez should be relied upon to close right now...he's spent all his time in the NL and has gotten hurt quite a bit...I like him, but don't think he's our total answer in finding a closer.

[a700hitter]

nobody should do this. Gonzalez cannot stay healthy and they refused to provide medical documents to the braves in their negotiations. At the same time' date=' Proctor is more valuable IMO than Gonzalez and throwing Cabrera in would be assinine. You can have him.[/quote']I hope the Yankees do this.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I read that the Sox would deal Crisp to ATL' date=' Laroche goes to PIT and Gonzalez goes to BOS. The braves want a little more[/quote']

 

Where would the braves put Crisp this year with Andruw not a free agent until after the 07 season?

[Beckett95]

Where would the braves put Crisp this year with Andruw not a free agent until after the 07 season?

 

Left for a year, then Center next year??

[jacksonianmarch]

I hope the Yankees do this.

 

dont think they are dumb enough to do that.

[paranoia]

Do we ever beat the Yankees for a player if they really want them, it seems like historically we haven't been able to very often.

[Cocos Disciples]

Daisuke Matsuzaka?

[jacksonianmarch]

Daisuke Matsuzaka?

 

Manny too.

[CrespoBlows]

Pedro Martinez.

[Cocos Disciples]

Steiny wanted David Ortiz, too.

[BSN07]

We have beaten them when it comes to getting players Paranoia, it just seems we remember more the ones we didn't get and all the publicity it caused when it happened.

 

Damon( His hole article in the paper)

Contreas( the whole evil empire quote)

Abreau( Theo saying we can't spend like the NYY)

Pavano( he was big coming off the WS win for FL)

AROD( The whole contract issue)

 

But when we get the player most NYY fans kind of let it go, some act like they never wanted them( some are full of s***, but some are speaking the truth).

 

Schilling

Pedro

Manny

Papi

Matsuzaka

 

You sometimes have to remember that we dislike NYY fans alot more then they dislike us. Well maybe thats a bad example. They don't take it a seriously as we do, think of it this way, being Patriot fans and being on top for the last few years has been great, but how do we look at Buffalo,MIA,NYJ? There our biggest rivals but we don't really care if they get someone we was after or who they sign ect. On the other side tho, BUF,MIA, and NYJ fans are like Sox fans in a sense, wanting to beat the Patriots at something, anything no matter how trivial it is. And until we won in 04 we looked to try and beat the NYY at anything. We still do now but since we won the sense of urgency and breaking the curse is no longer there, or not as strong.

 

Thats why I think it seems we never get the player and NYY do. But thats just my opinion.

[jacksonianmarch]

the thing is bosox, unlike the red sox, everytime the sox make a pre-emptive strike and nab a player the yankees have tabbed for obtaining, there is a reactive move. That seems to lessen the blow significantly. The other way around cannot always be said.

 

At the same time, the yankees were dealing from a loaded deck in the late 90s and have had just a little more ever since as far as getting the division.

[elsrbueno]

Where would the braves put Crisp this year with Andruw not a free agent until after the 07 season?

 

Left. He's much better suited for left anyway.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Left. He's much better suited for left anyway.

 

What about Langerhans/Diaz in left? I'd take Crisp over Langerhans, but Diaz put up way better numbers than Crisp last year in limited (allbeit not too limited) action. I guess running is a lot more important in the NL than it was in the AL this year, so I guess the edge there goes to Crisp, but Bobby Cox has never really been a hardcore running manager, so who knows. Considering the two are virtually the same age...I don't see why they'd want to bench Diaz.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/sports/s_483954.html

 

looks like the yankees are serious about making this completely ridiculous mistake. f***ing idiots. I thought Cashman was having an A+ offseason till I saw this crap.

[schillingouttheks]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/sports/s_483954.html

 

looks like the yankees are serious about making this completely ridiculous mistake. f***ing idiots. I thought Cashman was having an A+ offseason till I saw this crap.

 

You are quite the hypocrite if you bash Theo for dishing out $51 million to a potential ace for years to come in Matsuzaka, but turn around and give Cashman an A+ offseason despite the $25 million he posted for Igawa, who will possibly start the season in AAA and isn't supposed to be any better than a 4th starter nor half as good as Matsuzaka.

[jacksonianmarch]

I bash theo for giving what is going to amount to 20 mil a season to a guy who never threw a pitch in the major leagues. Although I do think he will be very good, I think that there are other guys who will hit the market in the coming yrs who deserve that kind of cash rather than this guy.

 

As for Igawa, I think he could be a good back end of the rotation guy this season, but since the yankees have a surplus of pitching, they can have the luxury of developing him a little. Igawa will likely cost about 10 mil a season (25 mil posting fee, 15 mil deal for 4 yrs), which is right in line with what a s***** back end of the rotation guy will cost. Hopefully he doesnt pan out that way.

[schillingouttheks]

No, I understand you're reasoning behind bashing Theo. That wasn't my point. I was focusing on the A+ you gave Cashman and wondering how the hell you can give him that grade. I don't care what Igawa's salary is in line with, posting that much for a back of the end rotation guy isn't worth it by the logic you're using. I would be happier if your grade was more in the mid-low B range. It could spike quickly, but he's essentially made 2 moves this season that will have immediate impact - Pettite (good signing), and Igawa (not so good for what was spent on him). Thus, an above average grade, but not a perfect grade, seems acceptable.

[jacksonianmarch]

also, I dont grade the yankees the way I would grade other teams. Maybe it is bias, but I think it is well founded. Money is no object to NY, but prospects are. In the yrs where they dealt away hoardes of prospects, I cringed knowing that the days that are now upon us would be happening. Either we'd be paying with another 1990esque crapfest or we'd be paying through the nose for (as Mr. Crunchy says) the 98 all star team.

 

The reason why I think Cashman had done a solid job this offseason is because he has a team that is rather complete at this point. The pitching staff is formidable with Pettitte joining the fold, and it really has the potential to average 200 innings from each spot. The bullpen is closed by the best of all time and a pretty good bridge as of right now, and the offense is still sick. But at the same time, he added to the farm rather than subtracted. Adding Sanchez and Whelan will pay dividends for this team as well as Britton either in future deals or in actual MLB production. Hence, he fixed the only problem the yankees really had (actually both by getting rid of Sheff and Wrights pisspoor attitudes) and he patched up the pitching, while setting the team up better for the future. I thought he was being quite possibly the best GM in the league up to this point from the WS to now.

 

Then, he pulls this s***. He may be about to deal a 21 yr old switch hitting CFer who had a .360OBP in his first full season in the bigs, and the absolute lynchpin of the bullpen in Proctor who is not old by any stretch for a f***in lefty who cannot find the strike zone and cannot stay healthy. I will puke if this trade goes through, and Cash can single handedly blame himself for giving away 2 impact players THIS YR for a guy who may be DLed for good come july. f***!!