If no Matsuzaka, then what?

[jacksonianmarch]

I know I made the same post about Gagne. Lets just assume for a second that Boras and the sox dont agree and Matsu flies away. What will the sox do as far as adding a fifth starter?

 

The options include Mulder, Zito, Suppan and Trachsel plus other retreads (Ohka, Armas etc.). Which of these guys do you guys like or would you rather fill the 5 internally.

[schillingouttheks]

Out of those? Zito. And that says a lot, because I really don't want Zito here. I wanted Schmidt most out of the MLB-experienced FAs.

[Beckett95]

If no Matsuzaka, then what?

 

ill make it simple...

 

we're f'd

 

Yankees win the division, Sox come in 3rd. Unless we make some trade out of nowhere.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt necessarily agree with that statement. They will need to deal manny IMHO. Deal Manny to the Angels and nab 2 bullpen guys to backload the pen and use the pitching to hopefully win 90 games.

[jacksonianmarch]

Manny to the Angels for Shields, Donnelly, and Morales. Morales offers the switch hitting power potential and the other 2 solidify the back end of that pen.

[a700hitter]

I wouldnt necessarily agree with that statement. They will need to deal manny IMHO. Deal Manny to the Angels and nab 2 bullpen guys to backload the pen and use the pitching to hopefully win 90 games.

Who has two back of the pen guys to trade for Manny?

[CrespoBlows]

Manny to the Angels for Shields' date=' Donnelly, and Morales. Morales offers the switch hitting power potential and the other 2 solidify the back end of that pen.[/quote']

 

That's an awful trade.

 

Donnelly can be had for a middling prospect. Morales is, at most, a 25 HR guy.

 

Not worth Manny Ramirez.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's an awful trade.

 

Donnelly can be had for a middling prospect. Morales is, at most, a 25 HR guy.

 

Not worth Manny Ramirez.

 

you want shields. He will cost a TON. He will be the biggest find for the sox. Add in another back end reliever and a switch hitting power prospect and you get a deal done. Otherwise, you could get Broxton, but there are no other relievers in that pile that they could send your way and neither Kemp nor Loney have the upside of Morales.

[CrespoBlows]

you want shields. He will cost a TON. He will be the biggest find for the sox. Add in another back end reliever and a switch hitting power prospect and you get a deal done. Otherwise' date=' you could get Broxton, but there are no other relievers in that pile that they could send your way and neither Kemp nor Loney have the upside of Morales.[/quote']

 

No closer is worth a guy who has a .400 OBP with 35 HR's every year. Even if you throw in Morales the deal is still lopsided to the Angels. He's a good bat, but he's still not worth the difference between Manny and Shields.

 

Donnelly is just a throw in for all I care.

 

The only way a Ramirez deal gets done, is if the Angels surrender Shields + two top prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

No closer is worth a guy who has a .400 OBP with 35 HR's every year. Even if you throw in Morales the deal is still lopsided to the Angels. He's a good bat, but he's still not worth the difference between Manny and Shields.

 

Donnelly is just a throw in for all I care.

 

The only way a Ramirez deal gets done, is if the Angels surrender Shields + two top prospects.

 

it will be interesting to see what happens. Deadline's a'comin.

[jacksonianmarch]

Who has two back of the pen guys to trade for Manny?

 

the angels do now. Signing Speier and Oliver adds one too many arms.

 

How bout this. Colon, Shields and Morales for Manny? If colon comes back the sox will add an ace and shields gives them a 1+ inning closer.

[yeszir]

I propose a mass suicide. I'll supply the tennis shoes, you supply the kool aid.

[jacksonianmarch]

I propose a mass suicide. I'll supply the tennis shoes' date=' you supply the kool aid.[/quote']

 

got a good laugh at that one. Solid post my friend.

[a700hitter]

the angels do now. Signing Speier and Oliver adds one too many arms.

 

How bout this. Colon, Shields and Morales for Manny? If colon comes back the sox will add an ace and shields gives them a 1+ inning closer.

A fat guy with a bum shoulder that ARod owns and Shields who has thrown a ton in the last three years for Manny? I don't think so.

[TheKilo]

A fat guy with a bum shoulder that ARod owns and Shields who has thrown a ton in the last three years for Manny? I don't think so.

 

 

He's a Yankee fan, of course he wants Manny gone.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's a Yankee fan' date=' of course he wants Manny gone.[/quote']

 

if you lose out on Matsuzaka, then you have a hole in the rotation and encompassing the entire pen. There isnt much left on the FA market. Dealing may be the sox last shot.

[schillingouttheks]

Does anyone know what big name pitchers are available in '08?

[a700hitter]

if you lose out on Matsuzaka' date=' then you have a hole in the rotation and encompassing the entire pen. There isnt much left on the FA market. Dealing may be the sox last shot.[/quote']Their work would be cut out for them, but they are going to sign this guy and then they'll turn their attention to the bullpen.

[Gom]

I propose a mass suicide. I'll supply the tennis shoes' date=' you supply the kool aid.[/quote']

 

Funniest s*** I've heard in a while.

 

Guys...as a Yankee fan...and one that would absolutely LOVE it if Matsuzaka goes back to Japan, I have to say that at the last possible moment, Boras will strike a deal and say something to the effect that Matsuzaka wanted to come and play for the storied Red Sox franchise and that all the parties came together to make this happen.

 

Etc., etc., etc.....

[example1]

Funniest s*** I've heard in a while.

 

Guys...as a Yankee fan...and one that would absolutely LOVE it if Matsuzaka goes back to Japan, I have to say that at the last possible moment, Boras will strike a deal and say something to the effect that Matsuzaka wanted to come and play for the storied Red Sox franchise and that all the parties came together to make this happen.

 

Etc., etc., etc.....

 

I agree. Then he'll fly to NY, meet with the Mets and sell Zito for 16m a season ("Pettitte money").

[riverside sluggers]

Does anyone know what big name pitchers are available in '08?

 

2007 offseason:

Mark Buerhle

Doug Davis

Bartolo Colon

Livan Hernandez

Jason Jennings

John Smoltz

Jake Westbrook

Carlos Zambrano

 

2008 offseason:

C.C. Sabathia

Bronson Arroyo

Jeremy Bonderman

Jon Garland

John Lackey

Derek Lowe

Pedro Martinez

Mike Mussina

Jake Peavy

Brad Penny

Mark Prior

Ben Sheets

Javier Vazquez

[seabeachfred]

All the same with your gentlemen if I just shitcan talk about who's available next off season? I would like to have a team for the coming year that can contend and maybe make the WS. If the Tigers and Cards can do it so should we. I only hope the FO has a backup plan if this DM deal falls through the cracks. I do not relish the thought of a bum like Snyder or a mediocrity like Gabbard being in our rotation next season unless we want to concede one game in every give we play. Bad enough we have to worry whether Wakefield will improve over his lackluster season in 2006. Barry Zito and or Roger Clemens might be our only possibilities. That is why we must get this DM deal done.

[schillingouttheks]

All the same with your gentlemen if I just shitcan talk about who's available next off season? I would like to have a team for the coming year that can contend and maybe make the WS. If the Tigers and Cards can do it so should we. I only hope the FO has a backup plan if this DM deal falls through the cracks. I do not relish the thought of a bum like Snyder or a mediocrity like Gabbard being in our rotation next season unless we want to concede one game in every give we play. Bad enough we have to worry whether Wakefield will improve over his lackluster season in 2006. Barry Zito and or Roger Clemens might be our only possibilities. That is why we must get this DM deal done.

 

I asked because if Daisuke Matsuzaka falls through, we're f***ed until after '08 (because at this rate, the Cubs are sure to extend Zambrano, and Buehrle would be nice, but he's not a dominant ace) in terms of big name pitchers that are appealing (assuming they don't sign extensions). The point is this: if Matsuzaka doesn't get signed, we're f***ed for this year and we can kiss it good bye. And even if we do end up seeing some sort of ace pitcher, you can kiss Manny good bye. Zito isn't appealing to me and if you're going to get someone that would have an ace effect, teams will see how desperate Boston is and ask for at least Manny.

 

So, I just wanted to see how long until the Sox would have their next opportunity at a big name pitcher.

[paranoia]

I don't think they is a good fallback position if this deal falls through, unless by some far out chance we could sign zito, which won't happen, so we have to GET THIS DEAL DONE.

[schillingouttheks]

Zito is a terrible fit for Boston. The left field wall will eat him up. Not someone I wanna watch pitch half of his starts at Fenway.

[Papelbon58]

I personally saw him get eaten up in Fenway in 2004. I do not recall exactly how many he got tagged for, but the Sox won 11-0

[seabeachfred]

I asked because if Daisuke Matsuzaka falls through, we're f***ed until after '08 (because at this rate, the Cubs are sure to extend Zambrano, and Buehrle would be nice, but he's not a dominant ace) in terms of big name pitchers that are appealing (assuming they don't sign extensions). The point is this: if Matsuzaka doesn't get signed, we're f***ed for this year and we can kiss it good bye. And even if we do end up seeing some sort of ace pitcher, you can kiss Manny good bye. Zito isn't appealing to me and if you're going to get someone that would have an ace effect, teams will see how desperate Boston is and ask for at least Manny.

 

So, I just wanted to see how long until the Sox would have their next opportunity at a big name pitcher.

 

Schill, I wasn't bad mouthing your post at all, just adding that it would be nice if all us Red Sox fans could be rooting for a team next season that had a decent chance of getting to the World Series, at the least, finally winning the AL East if that's all we can do. f***ed is an understatement if we don't sign DM; we would have to hope that Curt, Josh and Jonathan had lights out years so we had a threesome that could take us into the Playoffs. I'm not really counting of Wakefield for more than 10 or 11 wins, and that fifth starter---Dansack, Gabbard, Snyder, Pauley, none of them allow me to shout from the rooftops that we have what it takes to take it to the other teams. Yes, trading for a good pitcher would cost us dearly, and the crop down the road doesn't look that good at all. I wonder why so many, though, bad rap Zito. I has proven himself to be a pretty damn good pitcher and he usually gives us a lot of solo homers instead of the two and three base variety. As for Clemens, I have no clue what he's doing or even if he knows at this moment.

 

Again, not panning your post Schill, just pissed off that I had to read it because it is very true and not the kind of news I want to hear. Maybe, they will prove us both wrong and we can sign the guy and really have something to look forward to next season.

[redsoxrules]

anyone has Zito's career stats at fenway park?

[Fried Neckbones]

anyone has Zito's career stats at fenway park?

 

Here you are, sir.

 

G GS GF W L S CG SHO IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP

 

5 5 0 2 2 0 1 0 31 4.65 36 17 16 3 13 0 24 2

 

Sorry about the crappy formating.

[redsoxrules]

Here you are, sir.

 

G GS GF W L S CG SHO IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP

 

BOS-Fenway Pk 5 5 0 2 2 0 1 0 31 4.65 36 17 16 3 13 0 24 2

 

Sorry about the crappy formating.

 

thx!

 

well he sucks at fenway park , so yeah we better sign mat