Boston Herald: Talks Break Down With Matsuzaka, Deal Unlikely To Get Done

[jacksonianmarch]

I know it is the fringe players that will be getting replaced' date=' but it isn't like replacing them with a rookie. The rookies will replace the fringe guys at the rate rookies are ready to make the transition. By making the fight for the rights of Japanese professionals, they are potentially introducing immediate replacements, meaning careers get ended earlier. And, lets not act like it is a "few" players. If posting goes away, the number making the transition would certainly increase. Especially in light of the recent successes of Japanese talent here.[/quote']

 

that is what being in the major leagues is all about. The best of the best. They will stand up for that, especially since most union reps are players that wont have that problem of being replaced.

 

Bobby V said something like 90 of the players over there could play here. So if you take that into account and figure that half of them would make the attempt, half of them would go to the minors, then you have 20 players who would be immediate replacements, and you better believe that the best players in the game would welcome better competition or even better, they would welcome better teammates.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/tumbling_dicepi.html

 

Tumbling dice, by gordo edes. Boras makes a very good point. The 51.1 mil is a competition exluding price, like buying property, it does not affect the equity of the property. Smart move.

[ORS]

What gobble-dee-gook. I can't believe you bought that line. When you buy property, you bought it. It's yours. No further negotiation is necessary.

 

He's right about one thing. It is a competition excluding premium. In terms of property, it's like isolating a home on the real estate market, and you are the only one allowed to submit a bid to the owner. Who wouldn't want to be in that situation?

[BSN07]

I'm just gonna wait until the deadlines pass before talking about any supposed deals, conspiracy theories about Boras ect. This hole forum is going to go beserk either way. If he signs, people are never going to let GOM, Jackson and anyone else who said he wouldn't sign, and Boras had some alternative plan blah blah blah, live it down. On the other hand if they turn out right we can assume we most definately will never here the end of it and expect it to be rubbed in our noses for some time.

 

So since we will always look back on this signing from one perspective or the other, lets drop it for now, the speculation and rumors is becoming all to familar and boaring, the same s*** just reheated on a different day. Wait until the deadline passes then we will know facts, and can debate it until the end of time:thumbsup:

[Mr Crunchy]

if this guy goes back to japan without a contract it will be boras last man in the far east

they have this cultural concept of shame and greed which doesnt apply here in america and it certainly dont apply to the agents

 

after the seibu lions threw a going away party for this guy and he said all the right things about his future and his past

he will look like a complete douchebag if he turns down a 40M deal

that being said

if the sox dont offer this guy decent money their reputation in the same land will be toast as well

the sox need to get it together

this is speculating that the sox will indeed make an offer thats more in line with the jd drews of the world than the matt clements

 

i have no idea what the mindset is on yawkee way these days,none

but

i do need to think that they will offer this guy ""drew"" money before thursday

[seabeachfred]

I'm just gonna wait until the deadlines pass before talking about any supposed deals, conspiracy theories about Boras ect. This hole forum is going to go beserk either way. If he signs, people are never going to let GOM, Jackson and anyone else who said he wouldn't sign, and Boras had some alternative plan blah blah blah, live it down. On the other hand if they turn out right we can assume we most definately will never here the end of it and expect it to be rubbed in our noses for some time.

 

So since we will always look back on this signing from one perspective or the other, lets drop it for now, the speculation and rumors is becoming all to familar and boaring, the same s*** just reheated on a different day. Wait until the deadline passes then we will know facts, and can debate it until the end of time:thumbsup:

 

BoNat, that is one helluva idea, but here is the problem. Matsuzaka is the itch we just have to scratch. I thought doing the same thing you were suggesting, but, as Al Pacino said in "Godfather 3",-----"I try to get out but they keep pulling me back in". I think that identifies a lot of us and the reason is simple. A lot of the upcoming season could be determined by whether we sign the guy or not. I also have no intention to go after my friend Jackson if he's proven wrong because I know as a Yankee fan he doesn't want us to have him and that's just human nature. GOM keeps getting hammered by some of you but he has put a different spin on things and at least has made me think of some of the possibilities we have if this things crashes. However, I would give those two a friendly nudge if we pull this off. :D :D :D

[seabeachfred]

if this guy goes back to japan without a contract it will be boras last man in the far east

they have this cultural concept of shame and greed which doesnt apply here in america and it certainly dont apply to the agents

 

after the seibu lions threw a going away party for this guy and he said all the right things about his future and his past

he will look like a complete douchebag if he turns down a 40M deal

that being said

if the sox dont offer this guy decent money their reputation in the same land will be toast as well

the sox need to get it together

this is speculating that the sox will indeed make an offer thats more in line with the jd drews of the world than the matt clements

 

i have no idea what the mindset is on yawkee way these days,none

but

i do need to think that they will offer this guy ""drew"" money before thursday

 

Well at least Crunch you have some idea of which way this thing is going and I salute you for that, especially if you will permit me to say I have no such idea myself. Right now I certainly wouldn't be my house or my garage on this; I'm not sure I would even want to wager our old dog kennel in the back yard. This soap opera has been swining back and forth the past few weeks and every day it is something new, sometimes hopeful, sometimes ominous. Maybe we should all take BoNat's advice and just shitcan this talk until after the deadline passes. It really had agitated me more than I would like.

[riverside sluggers]

"Boras had pledged late last week that the Sox would hear directly from Matsuzaka, who flew in from Tokyo on Saturday, but there was no public indication that has yet to happen. Indeed, frustrated Sox officials were privately wondering whether the player was aware that Boras so far had not made a counter-offer."

 

This was from Boston.com. Boras has been holding the Sox from even talking to Matsuzaka himself since that one dinner they had with him. Sean MacAdams has said recently that if the Sox have enough proof, they can bring a case to Bud Selig about Boras' handling of the negotiations.

[JD Drew Luvs Julio Lugo]

This was from Boston.com. Boras has been holding the Sox from even talking to Matsuzaka himself. Sean MacAdams has said recently that if the Sox have enough proof' date=' they can bring a case to Bud Selig about Boras' handling of the negotiations.[/quote']

 

I am so glad the Dodgers refrained from doing business with that douche this offseason. Maybe now they won't get f*cked up the ass like they did by he and Drew.

[seabeachfred]

I am so glad the Dodgers refrained from doing business with that douche this offseason. Maybe now they won't get f*cked up the ass like they did by he and Drew.

 

Lugo, the one way to really stick it to Boras is to do what Ken Williams of the Chicago White Sox does. He simply will not deal with Boras or any of his clients, and he tells his players that if they choose that bum for their agent, well then, their ass is going out of Chicago. Boras helped the Red Sox get Drew and that pleases me, but it doesn't please me at all that it had to be that *******. He's never changed and I wonder why he hasn't dropped like a rock yet. If it is true he is keeping Matszaka from talking directly to the Red Sox the team has a case it could take to Selig and maybe then we can barbeque Boras' ass once and for all.

[JD Drew Luvs Julio Lugo]

I got a question:

 

If the Sox don't sign Matsuzaka, what becomes of the money they paid to negotiate with him? Do they get it back or are they SOL?

[riverside sluggers]

They dont have to pay a cent of the $51.1 million if he returns to Japan

[seabeachfred]

I got a question:

 

If the Sox don't sign Matsuzaka, what becomes of the money they paid to negotiate with him? Do they get it back or are they SOL?

 

Yes Lugo, we get it back and with that $51 mil and the amount we were going to pay Matsu we could then try and go all out and sign Barry Zito and Roger Clemens. We'd have the money to do so. Whether the Red Sox front office would be up for that, only they know.

[riverside sluggers]

The Sox are currently at $130 million for the 2007 payroll, the bid never factored in the payroll whatsoever. Zito as one to be prone to giving up the long ball would be killed at his games at Fenway Park. The Rangers put a bid on him for 6 years/$102 million. The Sox would have to match or go even higher. Then Clemens' contract would have to be around the offer they made him last year which was a pro-rated $21 million

 

The Sox payroll would sky rocket to the $160-170 million range

[BSN07]

Zito would be an awful fit at Fenway. Flyball pitchers won't get it done. Plus his agent is Boras and he would no doubt try to get all the Matsuzaka money into the Zito deal. Theres no way he will let the Sox get away with not signing Matsuzaka and use Zito as a fall back plan.

[Cityofchampions33]

I'd be very inetrested to know if Matsuzaka has any knowledge fo what is happening in thses negotiations, if he sticks by Boras, or just doesn't have a clue. Its not moving at all, and something tells me Boras is being a bit deceitful with the lad.

[JD Drew Luvs Julio Lugo]

Of course he's being deceitful. It's in his blood. He always has to be swindling someone or else he isn't satisfied.

[Cocos Disciples]

According to the Herald, many officials say that the only way a deal could get done is if Matsuzaka stands up to Boras and makes him accept the deal...very interesting.

 

How funny would that be if we got him for 8 mil a season cause of that?

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171439

[BoSox21]

That would surprise me. A player doesn't hire Scott Boras if they don't care what kind of deal they get

[JD Drew Luvs Julio Lugo]

That would surprise me. A player doesn't hire Scott Boras if they don't care what kind of deal they get

 

And Boras isn't gonna let a player boss him around, let alone one that doesn't speak English.

[Cityofchampions33]

Thatd be sick if Dice-K just fired him like right now, and accepted a fair and comprehensive offer for both sides.

[JD Drew Luvs Julio Lugo]

Thatd be sick if Dice-K just fired him like right now' date=' and accepted a fair and comprehensive offer for both sides.[/quote']

 

That would be great, but it would be better if he did it publicly during a news conference.

[Gom]

Valid points all.

 

However, I will point this out.

 

I'm sure white ballplayers didn't want niggers to play with them. Some of them came out and said so.

 

You see how that worked out. The ancestors of those white players are cheering the ancestors of the same niggers they wanted to keep out.

 

I put the language in to show the mindset of the time.

 

The point is, everyone deep down inside knows that everyone has the right to play in the MLB, regardless of race, color, creed, etc. Sooner or later, everyone leaves the game. The infusion of talent can only help baseball, not hurt it.

 

Regardless of what happens with Matsuzaka, the system is broken, and will need to be fixed. How....I'm not really sure. Would be an interesting point of debate and/or discussion.

[Beckett95]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/11/boras_thinks_so.html comments from boras right after Boston won the bidding

 

and

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/tumbling_dicepi.html the most recent comments from Boras

[ORS]

A little too strong of an analogy.

 

Nobody is being denied permission to play because of any of those reasons. They are being denied permission (or would be) because of a decision they made. That decision is to play ball in the NPB. NPB has an agreement with MLB. Don't want to hurt your chances of playing in the MLB? Don't start off in the NPB. There's a league in Taiwan and Korea, and while the scouting of that market is in its infancy, we are seeing signings of young talent to come over and go through the minors here.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thatd be sick if Dice-K just fired him like right now' date=' and accepted a fair and comprehensive offer for both sides.[/quote']

 

accepting jason marquis figures is not "fair and comprehensive". That is a ******** offer.

[Cityofchampions33]

accepting jason marquis figures is not "fair and comprehensive". That is a ******** offer.

 

Did I ever say 7-8 million was fair and comprehensive? In ANY thread did I ever mention any figure under 10 that was fair and comprehensive? Jesus, learn to read before you accuse. This is like the 2nd time youve assumed what Ive said wrongly.

[jacksonianmarch]

Did I ever say 7-8 million was fair and comprehensive? In ANY thread did I ever mention any figure under 10 that was fair and comprehensive? Jesus' date=' learn to read before you accuse. This is like the 2nd time youve assumed what Ive said wrongly.[/quote']

 

I am by no means accusing you of anything my friend. The reports right now are that the sox havent budged off 7-8 mil. If Matsu fires Boras right now, that is what he would be accepting.

[Cocos Disciples]

Thats true, it seems like the Sox have been idle with their 7-9 mil offer...and I cannot blame Boras for not budging on that figure. Adam Eaton got 8 mil...if Matsuzaka turns out like Eaton thats one of the biggest busts of the decade...he definitely deserves 11+. I'd give it to him, given our other options, and the possibility of Clemens going to NY.

[Cityofchampions33]

Well then you either phrased that really badly or your just re-negging your statement.