Who's our closer next year?

[jacksonianmarch]

It also worked in 2003...sort of. After 4-5 months of "closer by committe", the Sox eventually settled on Williamson as closer, Timlin/Embree as the late inning right/lefty combo and into the playoffs it worked like a dream.

 

Of course there was one guy who apparently didn't notice how effective they were and decided to leave Petey in during Game 7.

 

The audition approach can work...but there is some risk that you never find the right guy and it costs the team in the long-run.

 

It is actually a very risky proposition. Also, you need to have a core of effective relievers before you can go to a committee. Right now the sox have a soft tossing left specialist and an aging timlin to go along with a few kids who had rough yrs. If the sox go in with a committee, and it blows up in their face, they will have to pay through the arse trying to land a good reliever in season. It is a recipe for disaster.

[rician blast]

I agree its risky. But it is not impossible. Then again, targeting and/or relying on Gagne is risky as well due to health issues, making a trade for a guy like Broxton and expecting him to close carries risk, hoping Hansen or Delcarmen or any other current member of the roster can carry the load is a huge risk. Getting a bonafide closer is going to cost whether its done now or in-season and the FO's approach thus far seems to be NOT to overpay at that position.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=764

 

Interesting to say the least, Foulke could be leaning towards accepting arbitration the Sox offered.

[TheKilo]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=764

 

Interesting to say the least, Foulke could be leaning towards accepting arbitration the Sox offered.

 

Having Foulke back would be fantastic. If he's healthy, he's better than any pitcher on the FA market available.

[TedWilliams101]

Please no. The last thing we need is Keith Foulke in our bullpen again. Id like to see us get Gagne.

 

About Ramirez, if we didn't need good protection for Ortiz, then I would agree that it would be a good trade to get a good MLB and 2 prospects for him. But the fact is that Ortiz will be walked about 200 times next season if he doesnt have Manny behind. Manny is a first ballot HOF and is arguably the best hitter baseball has seen in a long time. Deal with him. Even if he isn't happy and the sox have to deal with his antics, he will still hit. He loves the game, he will play. We will get his 40+ homers, 130+RBI, .300+ BA, .400+ OBP, .600+ Slugging. When you have that good of a hitter, you do anything you can to deal with him and keep him in your lineup. Period.

 

And TheKilo, I don't buy your excuse that JD Drew has missed time because he was hit by a pitch. Your telling me the reason he has never played more than 146 games in a season over 9 years becuase he was hit by a pitch? He averages just 107 games per season. Sorry, but thats not too convincing.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign him. We should. But it would be a mistake to have him hit cleanup or even the 3 spot. Hes a 5 hitter, who will more than likely miss at least 20 games.

 

I agree that great pitching beats great hitting, but were talking about a serious downgrade to our lineup. It's true that if we trade Manny we will still get a good package and have a good, maybe great team. BUT it still won't be as good as it would had we kept Manny. Isn't an organizations goal to put out the best team on the field?

[riverside sluggers]

And TheKilo' date=' I don't buy your excuse that JD Drew has missed time because he was hit by a pitch. Your telling me the reason he has never played more than 146 games in a season over 9 years becuase he was hit by a pitch? He averages just 107 games per season. Sorry, but thats not too convincing.[/quote']

 

Actually he's speaking the truth... Drew in 2004 played in 145 games. His season in 2005 was cut short when his wrist was hit by a pitch, leaving him to just 72 games. In 2006 he bounced back to 146 games.

 

And also adding Foulke wouldnt be that bad of a deal (except not getting 1st round supplemental pick for him signing with someone else) Foulkie flat out deal after he came back from the DL and was the team's 2nd best reliever behind Paps during that time. Even as a middle reliever, he strengthens the bullpen

[TheKilo]

Please no. The last thing we need is Keith Foulke in our bullpen again. Id like to see us get Gagne.

 

About Ramirez, if we didn't need good protection for Ortiz, then I would agree that it would be a good trade to get a good MLB and 2 prospects for him. But the fact is that Ortiz will be walked about 200 times next season if he doesnt have Manny behind. Manny is a first ballot HOF and is arguably the best hitter baseball has seen in a long time. Deal with him. Even if he isn't happy and the sox have to deal with his antics, he will still hit. He loves the game, he will play. We will get his 40+ homers, 130+RBI, .300+ BA, .400+ OBP, .600+ Slugging. When you have that good of a hitter, you do anything you can to deal with him and keep him in your lineup. Period.

 

And TheKilo, I don't buy your excuse that JD Drew has missed time because he was hit by a pitch. Your telling me the reason he has never played more than 146 games in a season over 9 years becuase he was hit by a pitch? He averages just 107 games per season. Sorry, but thats not too convincing.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign him. We should. But it would be a mistake to have him hit cleanup or even the 3 spot. Hes a 5 hitter, who will more than likely miss at least 20 games.

 

I agree that great pitching beats great hitting, but were talking about a serious downgrade to our lineup. It's true that if we trade Manny we will still get a good package and have a good, maybe great team. BUT it still won't be as good as it would had we kept Manny. Isn't an organizations goal to put out the best team on the field?

 

 

JD Drew has had health issues in the past, but the last few years he has been relatively healthy. The season where he missed a lot of time, 2005, was when he was hit by a pitch.

 

I agree that if the Red Sox want their best team on the field, they keep Manny and sign Drew to replace Trot. That we can all agree on as an upgrade.

[MANNYHOF24]

Please no. The last thing we need is Keith Foulke in our bullpen again. Id like to see us get Gagne.

 

About Ramirez, if we didn't need good protection for Ortiz, then I would agree that it would be a good trade to get a good MLB and 2 prospects for him. But the fact is that Ortiz will be walked about 200 times next season if he doesnt have Manny behind. Manny is a first ballot HOF and is arguably the best hitter baseball has seen in a long time. Deal with him. Even if he isn't happy and the sox have to deal with his antics, he will still hit. He loves the game, he will play. We will get his 40+ homers, 130+RBI, .300+ BA, .400+ OBP, .600+ Slugging. When you have that good of a hitter, you do anything you can to deal with him and keep him in your lineup. Period.

 

And TheKilo, I don't buy your excuse that JD Drew has missed time because he was hit by a pitch. Your telling me the reason he has never played more than 146 games in a season over 9 years becuase he was hit by a pitch? He averages just 107 games per season. Sorry, but thats not too convincing.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't sign him. We should. But it would be a mistake to have him hit cleanup or even the 3 spot. Hes a 5 hitter, who will more than likely miss at least 20 games.

 

I agree that great pitching beats great hitting, but were talking about a serious downgrade to our lineup. It's true that if we trade Manny we will still get a good package and have a good, maybe great team. BUT it still won't be as good as it would had we kept Manny. Isn't an organizations goal to put out the best team on the field?

 

Foulke pitched well the second have of last year... Actually he pitched well for the first month of the season as well, if he can stay healthy he would be extremely valuable to our bullpen.

[elsrbueno]

Actually he's speaking the truth... Drew in 2004 played in 145 games. His season in 2005 was cut short when his wrist was hit by a pitch, leaving him to just 72 games. In 2006 he bounced back to 146 games.

 

And also adding Foulke wouldnt be that bad of a deal (except not getting 1st round supplemental pick for him signing with someone else) Foulkie flat out deal after he came back from the DL and was the team's 2nd best reliever behind Paps during that time. Even as a middle reliever, he strengthens the bullpen

 

Foulke didn't allow a run in 11 September innings which skewed his post ASB numbers. I will preface what I'm about to say by pointing out that 17.2 innings, his workload after the All Star Break, is not a very good sample size either way.

 

While it's nice that he did shut out opponents in September, I took a look at his #s compared to 2004 (when he was a dominant closer). His K/9 average went from 8.5 in 2004 to 6.5 in 2006. A pretty dramatic drop off. Also in 2004 he allowed 6.8 hits/9 and .86 HR/9, and averaged 1.5 BB/9.

 

In 2006, those numbers were:

 

H/9: 9.42

HR/9: 1.63

BB/9: 1.32

 

So his walks were down, but homeruns and hits per 9 were way up. Hits/9 can be associated with luck, and I don't have the numbers handy now, but his strikeouts going down and homeruns going up are definately bad signs.

 

If he accepts arbritration doesn't he have to be offered at least 80% of his 2006 salary (which was $7.5 million?) That's $6 million. I can see why he'd accept because I don't see him making this on the open market for a 1 year deal.

[ebouvier]

The Red Sox, on the lookout for a closer, have reportedly inquired about Derrick Turnbow. - Rotoworld

 

Another closer option surfaces.

[jacksonianmarch]

Another closer option surfaces.

 

another bad option arises. When you cannot cut it closing for the brewers, then you probably wont cut it closing for the sox.

[ebouvier]

another bad option arises. When you cannot cut it closing for the brewers' date=' then you probably wont cut it closing for the sox.[/quote']

 

I'm not saying I like the idea, I don't. It was the first time I heard that particular name so I thought it was worth throwing into the mix. I much rather see us net Broxton in a many trade, but that might not be a possibility.

[TedWilliams101]

I don't think Foulke will return to being the great reliever he used to be. Even if he does stay healthy next year, there is still the confidence factor, and his stuff just doesn't look as good as it used too. He'd be an alright option if he's stays healthy, but I'd only sign him if he was cheap.

[rician blast]

I heard that there's a burning question in the Sox clubhouse...who throws a harder fastball....Foulke or Wakefield?

 

If Foulke gets $6m in arbitration, as someone suggested is possible, then IMO the Sox fkd up offering arb.

[Cocos Disciples]

I look at Turnbows numbers and I cringe imagining him in Boston.

[MANNYHOF24]

I heard that there's a burning question in the Sox clubhouse...who throws a harder fastball....Foulke or Wakefield?

 

If Foulke gets $6m in arbitration, as someone suggested is possible, then IMO the Sox fkd up offering arb.

 

did you even watch the last half of the year, in 04 Foulke didnt throw hard and he was dominint, if healthy it could be a very good thing for our bullpen.

[BoSox34]

Say NO to Derrick Turnbrow.

[rician blast]

did you even watch the last half of the year' date=' in 04 Foulke didnt throw hard and he was dominint, if healthy it could be a very good thing for our bullpen.[/quote']

 

LOL...uh, yeah, I think I watched a game or two.

 

Foulke used to hit 91-92. Big difference between that and the 86-88 mph with no movement we saw last year.

 

He ain't worth $6m in my book. If he proves me wrong, great, but I just don't see it.

[Gom]

It is actually a very risky proposition. Also' date=' you need to have a core of effective relievers before you can go to a committee. Right now the sox have a soft tossing left specialist and an aging timlin to go along with a few kids who had rough yrs. If the sox go in with a committee, and it blows up in their face, they will have to pay through the arse trying to land a good reliever in season. It is a recipe for disaster.[/quote']

 

Jacksonian, keep in mind one thing. We have had the greatest reliever in baseball history for over a decade on our team. That may be affecting your thought process. They have had to make do. That's like having Babe Ruth and telling the other team that they need a power hitting OF.

 

They've had success more often than not with an audition for their closer. In reality, they will have another one even if they sign Gagne or bring back Foulke. If someone dominates ala Papelbon, he will get the job. It's not like they are unseating Rivera.

 

It will be a sad day when Mo retires. I don't care what anyone says..that's when the Yankee dynasty will truly die.

[TGov]

I hear the talks with Seattle involve JJ Puts or Rafael Soriano coming to Boston and Manny going there, of course thats only part of the deal, a prospect or maybe Beltre would come along as well...

[Beckett95]

Costs money, but I really think the best solution for the sox right now is to

1. Sign Drew

2. Hold on to Manny

3. Sign Lugo

4. Sign Gagne

5. Look for bullpen help

6. and obviously sign matzusaka

 

It would cost the sox money, but that would certainly put us in a good position this season.

 

agree, Coco could be good trade bait in a deal for some bullpen help

[rician blast]

Rumors are firming up that perhaps Foulke will accept arb from the Sox after all. To the FO, I say "all this for a a draft pick?"

 

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061204baseballwhispers,1,5058149.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines

[jacksonianmarch]

foulke back at 6mil is a huge detriment to this team. What a pisspoor offer.

[rician blast]

fkn A, Jacks...this is not good. Also would make him virtually untradeable unless they ate about $3m.

[jacksonianmarch]

this is what happens when you offer fringe guys arb for the express purpose of obtaining compensation. Thing is, they should have offered arb to Loretta because he is at least useful and would be rather cheap if he accepted. Foulke is useless and eating up 6mil is not worth a draft pick that may come back. The malcontent is back, every Johnny from Burger King should watch out. Good thing I went to Micky D's today.

[riverside sluggers]

Sox officials were worried about Loretta accepting arbitration because they didnt want it to harpen Pedroia's development. Being left in Triple A or being given the Lou Merloni treatment is not something this kid deserves. Im going to be sitting pretty when Dusty is producing for the Sox this season

[rician blast]

Right now Dustin Pedroia IS Lou Merloni, he just doesn't know it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Right now Dustin Pedroia IS Lou Merloni' date=' he just doesn't know it.[/quote']

 

there was nothing spectacular that I saw about Pedroia. If he shows a ton of hustle, then Eckstein may be is ceiling, but he is just not that spectacular a player. And if the comes out of the gate with another sub 200 start to the season, he wont recover.

[Rdsxmbnt]

yay foulkes might be back! and im being serious I think hes going to have a big rebound year as our set-up man

[riverside sluggers]

wow 89 ABs... you havent shown me anything kid

 

Again going to post this. He got off to a rough start making the transition from Triple A to the majors, naturally. That rough start really hurt his avg

 

4 for 41 (.091 avg) Double, 2 RBIs, Run, Walk, 4 Ks

 

Turn-around

13 for 48 (.271 avg) 3 Doubles, 2 HRs, 5 RBIs, 6 Runs, 6 Walks, 3 Ks

 

Boo the kid if you want on opening day, but eh I got something called patience