Off-season Hot Stove Thread

[BSN07]

Bye Bye A-GON. Your defense was amazing and fun to watch. Your bat ummm......... Your defense was amazing and fun to watch.

[seabeachfred]

1. Lugo

2. Uribe (if the White Sox are the team who are after Gonzo)

 

there really isnt to much out there for SS.

 

Unless they trade for someone

 

Uribe???? You have to be kidding. We just got rid of one lousy hitter in Gonzales. This guy is even worse with the bat. No thanks. We need to upgrade offensively at that spot, a leadoff man or second hitter who could get on base or hit one out of the park on occasion. Maybe an Aurilia or a Counsell if we can't sign anyone else, but no Uribe.:thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown

[Texas_Red_Sox_Fan]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a deal to bring Young to Boston

[jacksonianmarch]

stupifying stuff. Soriano going to Chicago opens up avenues for trade. Speier being signed by LAA is bad for the sox. Sounds like Joe Borowski is in the cards for Boston. Hmmm. Theo still cannot build a bullpen.

[MANNYHOF24]

stupifying stuff. Soriano going to Chicago opens up avenues for trade. Speier being signed by LAA is bad for the sox. Sounds like Joe Borowski is in the cards for Boston. Hmmm. Theo still cannot build a bullpen.

 

wow, chill out. Its juss Speier, its not the end of the world. Papelbon not being the closer is really going to hurt though. I have no idea who our closer is going to be next year. Maybe we will go after alan Embree!

[schillingouttheks]

Let's break Urbina out of prison!

[Beckett95]

Let's break Urbina out of prison!

 

we should get like an online petition started or a fund-raiser to get him out

 

Even if he was able to pitch, wouldnt want him anyway

[seabeachfred]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a deal to bring Young to Boston

 

You are going to have to use up just about all the credit you have with the Man upstairs in order to bring that about, but keep trying. You never know. :D :D

[seabeachfred]

stupifying stuff. Soriano going to Chicago opens up avenues for trade. Speier being signed by LAA is bad for the sox. Sounds like Joe Borowski is in the cards for Boston. Hmmm. Theo still cannot build a bullpen.

 

Jackson, Theo doesn't to be able to do anything. It has now been nine days. Players are now signing by the dozen and Epstein has accomplished absolutely nothing, not one player has been signed unless you think Alberto Castillo is the missing link to a championship. I think the Boy Blunder has lost his nerve, I really am beginning to believe it.

[yeszir]

Even if he was able to pitch...

 

Yea, I bet he's been doing a lot of catching lately.

[example1]

Jackson' date=' Theo doesn't to be able to do anything. It has now been nine days. Players are now signing by the dozen and Epstein has accomplished absolutely nothing, not one player has been signed unless you think Alberto Castillo is the missing link to a championship. I think the Boy Blunder has lost his nerve, I really am beginning to believe it.[/quote']

 

Are you f*ing kidding me? They just spent a huge amount of money to pick up the best available free agent pitcher, its been 9 days and you're upset? I mean, they haven't officially finalized anything yet, but Theo has been in LA getting Matsuzaka to sign with the Sox.

 

I'd be willing to bet that most of the teams that have made moves so far (Detroit, ANA, TOR) would rather have Matsuzaka in their rotation next year than Sheffield, Spier or Thomas. Soriano is a good signing, but 8 years is a really long time. In any case, most people would say the Sox have been aggresive in this market.

 

For crying out loud, the GM meetings justed finished last week.

[SuperManny]

Are you f*ing kidding me? They just spent a huge amount of money to pick up the best available free agent pitcher, its been 9 days and you're upset? I mean, they haven't officially finalized anything yet, but Theo has been in LA getting Matsuzaka to sign with the Sox.

 

I'd be willing to bet that most of the teams that have made moves so far (Detroit, ANA, TOR) would rather have Matsuzaka in their rotation next year than Sheffield, Spier or Thomas. Soriano is a good signing, but 8 years is a really long time. In any case, most people would say the Sox have been aggresive in this market.

 

For crying out loud, the GM meetings justed finished last week.

 

Seriously, I don't think the Sox are going to finalize any deals that involve losing a draft pick until after the arb deadline so they know which players will cost draft picks. The Sox aren't going to give away draft picks if they don't have to.

[jsinger121]

Seriously' date=' I don't think the Sox are going to finalize any deals that involve losing a draft pick until after the arb deadline so they know which players will cost draft picks. The Sox aren't going to give away draft picks if they don't have to.[/quote']

 

Ding Ding Ding.....someone nailed it.....SuperManny is right. The Sox aren't forking over a draft pick until they know who is offered arbitration and who isn't. So don't expect things to happen until that deadline.

[seabeachfred]

Are you f*ing kidding me? They just spent a huge amount of money to pick up the best available free agent pitcher, its been 9 days and you're upset? I mean, they haven't officially finalized anything yet, but Theo has been in LA getting Matsuzaka to sign with the Sox.

 

I'd be willing to bet that most of the teams that have made moves so far (Detroit, ANA, TOR) would rather have Matsuzaka in their rotation next year than Sheffield, Spier or Thomas. Soriano is a good signing, but 8 years is a really long time. In any case, most people would say the Sox have been aggresive in this market.

 

For crying out loud, the GM meetings justed finished last week.

 

When I see Daisuke's name on a contract then I will concede that you had it pegged all along. We haven't gotten that signature and I would advise you that Theo had better not try to lowball him because Boras will turn it down fast and we may wind up with nothing. :o

[seabeachfred]

:dunno:

Ding Ding Ding.....someone nailed it.....SuperManny is right. The Sox aren't forking over a draft pick until they know who is offered arbitration and who isn't. So don't expect things to happen until that deadline.

 

In that case we may not be able to sign anyone of consequence, which means that we are going to concentrate on the future and not the present. And, there is no guarantee those draft choices are going to amount to anything. I would certainly give up a draft choice to get players like Julio Lugo and J.D. Drew. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. :D

[example1]

When I see Daisuke's name on a contract then I will concede that you had it pegged all along. We haven't gotten that signature and I would advise you that Theo had better not try to lowball him because Boras will turn it down fast and we may wind up with nothing. :o

 

That's just weird reasoning. Boras has as much interest in getting this deal done as Boston does, or as Seibu does, or as Matsuzaka does. If Matsuzaka goes back to Japan and hurts his arm next season he's looking at NOTHING. Not 51 million PLUS his contract, but nothing. Now you think about it: is Boras such a dumb ass as to take the ONLY team that is guaranteeing 100 million dollars to his client (on a short contract) and shut them out of negotiations? No. He's not. He's rich and smart and he understands game theory enough to know that, in many situations, it is not a winner take all scenario. In this case there is no winner to be had from ANY scenario, either everyone wins or everyone loses.

 

In an everyone wins or everyone loses scenario the chances are TREMENDOUS that everyone wins. You think Seibu is willing to throw 10 million in to make the deal happen? I do. You think Matsuzaka is willing to NOT be the higest paid pitcher in baseball? I do. You think the Red Sox are going to ensure that Matsuzaka gets every possible creature comfort, every provision, every chance at the nicest apartment, car, parking spot available? I do.

 

It is such conspiracy theory crap to think the Red Sox would lowball Matsuzaka with the intention of a "take it or leave it, we're not flexible at all" stance.

 

Not a chance in hell that this deal doesn't get done.

[seabeachfred]

That's just weird reasoning. Boras has as much interest in getting this deal done as Boston does, or as Seibu does, or as Matsuzaka does. If Matsuzaka goes back to Japan and hurts his arm next season he's looking at NOTHING. Not 51 million PLUS his contract, but nothing. Now you think about it: is Boras such a dumb ass as to take the ONLY team that is guaranteeing 100 million dollars to his client (on a short contract) and shut them out of negotiations? No. He's not. He's rich and smart and he understands game theory enough to know that, in many situations, it is not a winner take all scenario. In this case there is no winner to be had from ANY scenario, either everyone wins or everyone loses.

 

In an everyone wins or everyone loses scenario the chances are TREMENDOUS that everyone wins. You think Seibu is willing to throw 10 million in to make the deal happen? I do. You think Matsuzaka is willing to NOT be the higest paid pitcher in baseball? I do. You think the Red Sox are going to ensure that Matsuzaka gets every possible creature comfort, every provision, every chance at the nicest apartment, car, parking spot available? I do.

 

It is such conspiracy theory crap to think the Red Sox would lowball Matsuzaka with the intention of a "take it or leave it, we're not flexible at all" stance.

 

Not a chance in hell that this deal doesn't get done.

 

You may be right but it would be a needed shot in the arm to get this done as quickly as possible so Red Sox fans have something to cheer about. It would also give us four pretty damn good starters going into next season, but I hope we are going to upgrade our other problem areas as well.

 

BTW, I just dispensed a VCR of the 6-29 game between the Red Sox and Mets and I was amazed at how well we were hitting at that time. Loretta, Youk, Trot. Lowell and Manny were all over 300. We really slumped later on, didn't we?

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes seabeach, the sox did slump. Back on topic. If Matsuzaka signs for less than market value, then Boras loses face. If Matsuzaka signs for too long a deal, the Boras loses face. He is an agent, not a Red Sox pawn. He will ask for the moon in a 3 yr deal. Expect it. It is the sox who will lose the most face. If they make the biggest bid by far, then lowball in an effort to sign him, it will make it look like they never intended to sign him at all. That would effectively plant a big f*** you in japan rather than a plan for future development. You can expect no team to even consider sending their players to the sox in the future. This is a big risk for the sox, but they have come this far, they have to finish.

[ORS]

Of course, you left a big part out. Boras, like the Sox, wants to grab a big part of the Japanese market. He stands to lose a lot of his credibility as an agent there if a deal can't be reached. This posting is going to make more teams consider posting their superstars instead of losing them for nothing in the near future. If Boras can't get a deal done, not many Japanese stars are going to want to use him if it looks likely that they will return to Japan to finish their contracts due to an inflexible agent. Going through the posting system is completely different than regular FA negotiations, and you continue to ignore any factors contrary to your desire that Boras stick it to the Sox.

[BSN07]

ORS has a good point. Boras wants 3 years the sox are rumored to want 5, so I'll guess it will be a 4 year deal maybe 3 with an option in the 50-56 million range, thats about 12-14 million a season, which seems about right for both sides.

[edge4414]

The Red Sox paid $51 mil for 6 years. My guess is this is non-negotiable. There is no precedent for giving any years up. Ichiro did not get the waiver nor did any other posted player and Matsui was a free agent so his 3 year deal doesn't apply.

[BudLight]

Another scenario in the Matsuzaka drama could see the Sox not being able to agree to terms with him and Boras "buying" his free agency from the Seibu Lions. Seibu stands to get $51M if Matsuzaka is signed. They will get nothing if he is not signed and leaves in two years as a free agent. Boras is not stupid, he knows this and the Seibu ownership might be willing to take some $ millions now to grant him free agency instead of $0 in two years. Just something else to think about.

[BSN07]

I don't see that happening at all tho. Both sides would look like dumass's.

[BSN07]

Wow I was just reading this link mlbtraderumors.com put up. It's a list that shows what a FA player is worth in compensation picks. A players you get two picks B you get one and C you get none. Please someone sign Seanez! They have him listed as a type A FA. Thats 2 picks for that tool! lol:D

[seabeachfred]

Yes seabeach' date=' the sox did slump. Back on topic. If Matsuzaka signs for less than market value, then Boras loses face. If Matsuzaka signs for too long a deal, the Boras loses face. He is an agent, not a Red Sox pawn. He will ask for the moon in a 3 yr deal. Expect it. It is the sox who will lose the most face. If they make the biggest bid by far, then lowball in an effort to sign him, it will make it look like they never intended to sign him at all. That would effectively plant a big f*** you in japan rather than a plan for future development. You can expect no team to even consider sending their players to the sox in the future. This is a big risk for the sox, but they have come this far, they have to finish.[/quote']

 

Putting it the way you did Jackson, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. If the Red Sox are stupid enough to lowball Daisuke Boras will sure as hell turn it down and we will be toast in Japan for the next decade or so. I can now see that we will have to succeed in signing him. However, Theo has to get off his ass and start upgrading the other spots where we need improvement---RF, SS, Closer and Set-Up Man. So far, nothing. And get this Manny saga settled once and for all. We got bogged down with this same s*** last year and that prevented us from taking care of our needs. Either trade him or get him the hell off the market. <_ src="//d1mqtyoopj0gsc.cloudfront.net/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)">

[jacksonianmarch]

John Heyman's column in SI today was interesting. He said that the sox like a lot of teams set a total value on Matsuzaka, and he has sources which say that the number was 80 mil. He goes on to say that the sox will consider some of that money as a "down payment" toward Matsuzaka while Boras will likely counter with the "he doesnt ee a red cent of that money" bit. He is predicting that this will go down the wire, and if forced to accept a lower than market deal or go back to Japan, he speculated that Boras could try to buy Matsuzaka's freedom from Seibu and make him a FA. Very interesting stuff.

[example1]

Putting it the way you did Jackson' date=' I think you might have hit the nail on the head. If the Red Sox are stupid enough to lowball Daisuke Boras will sure as hell turn it down and we will be toast in Japan for the next decade or so. I can now see that we will have to succeed in signing him. However, Theo has to get off his ass and start upgrading the other spots where we need improvement---RF, SS, Closer and Set-Up Man. So far, nothing. And get this Manny saga settled once and for all. We got bogged down with this same s*** last year and that prevented us from taking care of our needs. Either trade him or get him the hell off the market. <_ src="//d1mqtyoopj0gsc.cloudfront.net/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)"> [/quote']

 

Sorry folks. The risk of Matsuzaka hurting himself and getting ZERO is WAY too high for Boras to not move on this. Here is his chance to land a ton of money for his client and Seibu. One tweak of the elbow, one shoulder strain, one back pain report and its all over. I imagine Matsuzaka and Boras were all holding their breath as Matsuzaka finished up his season and the choice to NOT play in the MLB all-star series reflects that.

 

Matsuzaka made 2 million or so last year. He has the chance to make 11 million here, without raising a finger or making a pitch. Boras is intelligent enough to know that it is unrealistic to expect a team to pay him like oswalt, and if he holds onto Matsuzaka for 18 million a year not only will he piss Seibu off, but he will also piss off Matsuzaka and shame him and dishonor him.

 

It's too bad most of you guys haven't read about game theory. It's just a fact that when there is an "everyone can win" scenario, they will tend to go in that direction.

[jacksonianmarch]

Everyone can win.

 

A: if the sox give Boras a 3 yr deal at lots of cash

B: if Boras is able to buy Matsu's freedom and he becomes a FA

 

The sox have the ability to control this by doing A. It is on them to do so.

[seabeachfred]

John Heyman's column in SI today was interesting. He said that the sox like a lot of teams set a total value on Matsuzaka' date=' and he has sources which say that the number was 80 mil. He goes on to say that the sox will consider some of that money as a "down payment" toward Matsuzaka while Boras will likely counter with the "he doesnt ee a red cent of that money" bit. He is predicting that this will go down the wire, and if forced to accept a lower than market deal or go back to Japan, he speculated that Boras could try to buy Matsuzaka's freedom from Seibu and make him a FA. Very interesting stuff.[/quote']

 

Which means, as I have feared all along, that we may wind up with nothing. You can be guaranteed that if Epstein lowballs Boras we will not see Matsuzaka pitching for the Red Sox, and we will be toast in Japan for the next 20 years, and we will be lucky to finish third again. I would hope that if this falls through Theo is finally sent away because he will have been proven a gross incompetent. In the meantime we will have wasted valuable time fixing our other problems. We may wind up with nothing. :( :(

[edge4414]

John Heyman's column in SI today was interesting. He said that the sox like a lot of teams set a total value on Matsuzaka' date=' and he has sources which say that the number was 80 mil. He goes on to say that the sox will consider some of that money as a "down payment" toward Matsuzaka while Boras will likely counter with the "he doesnt ee a red cent of that money" bit. He is predicting that this will go down the wire, and if forced to accept a lower than market deal or go back to Japan, he speculated that Boras could try to buy Matsuzaka's freedom from Seibu and make him a FA. Very interesting stuff.[/quote']

 

Have you ever heard of any Japanese player being bought out by an agent or even a rumor of this occurring. No, because it is against the agreement between MLB and Japanese baseball. It is a ridiculous assumption!