Jeff Bagwell part II

[Soxfan1]

Freddy

 

I think this kid is going to be one of the best hitters playing baseball in a few years.

[Goalstopper]

didn't he get the batting title or something

[Anuj09]

who the f*** is this pirates player ?

[Papelbon58]

Freddy Sanchez just won the NL batting title, come on guys, be baseball fans. I agree that he will be a great player. He and Jason Bay are at least a little bit of hope for the Pirates. I'm not exactly positive what it has to do with Jeff Bagwell, but thats ok.

[Soxfan1]

Freddy Sanchez just won the NL batting title' date=' come on guys, be baseball fans. I agree that he will be a great player. He and Jason Bay are at least a little bit of hope for the Tigers. I'm not exactly positive what it has to do with Jeff Bagwell, but thats ok.[/quote']

Exactly what he said.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Exactly what he said.

 

Same here, except change 'Tigers' to 'Pirates'.

[Soxfan1]

I meant the first sentence.

[ORS]

who the f*** is this pirates player ?

Freddy Sanchez just won the NL batting title, come on guys, be baseball fans. I agree that he will be a great player. He and Jason Bay are at least a little bit of hope for the Pirates. I'm not exactly positive what it has to do with Jeff Bagwell, but thats ok.

Freddy was a Sox prospect who was traded with Mike Gonzalez for Suppan and a couple of minor leaguers. That is the Bagwell reference, and it's a valid one.

[Cocos Disciples]

Gonzalez wasn't traded with him, if I am not mistaken he was in the first deal, including Brandon Lyon, who failed his physical, nixing the trade. I'm pretty sure.

 

But, yes, Freddy Sanchez is good. So are Mark Teixiera, Roger Clemens and Jeff Bagwell. But we got Tek and Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb. It's all a crapshoot, nothing you can do about it now.

[Anuj09]

Freddy was a Sox prospect who was traded with Mike Gonzalez for Suppan and a couple of minor leaguers. That is the Bagwell reference' date=' and it's a valid one.[/quote']

 

i was just being sarcastic man

[ORS]

Gonzalez wasn't traded with him, if I am not mistaken he was in the first deal, including Brandon Lyon, who failed his physical, nixing the trade. I'm pretty sure.

 

But, yes, Freddy Sanchez is good. So are Mark Teixiera, Roger Clemens and Jeff Bagwell. But we got Tek and Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb. It's all a crapshoot, nothing you can do about it now.

Freddy Gonzalez @ TheBaseballCube.com

 

Drafted - Selected by Boston Red Sox in 11th Round (332nd overall) of 2000 amateur entry draft (June-Reg) Jun 14,2000 - signed Jul 31,2003 - Traded by Red Sox with Mike Gonzalez and Cash to Pirates for Anastacio Martinez, Jeff Suppan and Brandon Lyon.

[ORS]

i was just being sarcastic man

Sure. Nice try.

[Papelbon58]

i now get the Bagwell reference, just didn't occur to me at the time

[SCM33]

I dont see the Bagwell reference. They are very different players.

 

Sanchez is a gap hitter who never walks and doesnt have the slightest bit of speed playing pretty good D.

 

Bagwell was a complete hitter, one of the best baserunners of his time and a very good fielding 1B.

 

I understand we didnt know that Bagpipes would turn in to the player he did, but with Freddy many people viewed him as a good hitting prospect and thats exactly what he turned in to, a good hitter. Nobody knew that Bagwell would hit .350 with 35 HR's 120 RBIS and walk 80+ times a year.

[RedSoxRooter]

I always forget how old Sanchez. He's 28 - older than Youk.

[ORS]

I dont see the Bagwell reference. They are very different players.

 

Sanchez is a gap hitter who never walks and doesnt have the slightest bit of speed playing pretty good D.

 

Bagwell was a complete hitter, one of the best baserunners of his time and a very good fielding 1B.

 

I understand we didnt know that Bagpipes would turn in to the player he did, but with Freddy many people viewed him as a good hitting prospect and thats exactly what he turned in to, a good hitter. Nobody knew that Bagwell would hit .350 with 35 HR's 120 RBIS and walk 80+ times a year.

The similarity is irrelevant, the fact the we gave up quality talent for utter crap in both cases is.

[jacksonianmarch]

The similarity is irrelevant' date=' the fact the we gave up quality talent for utter crap in both cases is.[/quote']

 

Agreed. The thing is, Theo has his hands on a lot of Bagwellian deals. Thing is, Bags was traded for a guy who actually helped the sox down the stretch. These other trades have been utter disasters.

 

1. Dealing Mike Gonzalez, a guy who did not blow a save all yr and has lightning stuff from the left hand side, along with the NL batting champ and Arizona's closer for 2007 in Lyon for Suppan and Sauerbeck did not help the sox one iota. Also, it kills the sox for the right now too. Sanchez would be the perfect option at SS for next yr with Pedroia at 2b and Youkilis at 3rd while Gonzalez would allow Paps to have a smooth transition to the rotation.

 

2. Name the trade!

Here is who the sox gave up

23 yr old pitcher. 50.2IP, 5-1 1.07ERA, 0.71WHIP, .450OPS against, .170BAA

and

28 yr old catcher who hit .338 with a .943OPS in 231 ABs since the trade for

a 35 yr old catcher who hit .193 with a .603OPS in 161 ABs

Right now Cla Meredith would be huge in the sox pen and Bard would be gearing up to take over for Vtek if they were both in Beantown.

 

3. Beckett for Sanchez and Hanley with 2 more nasty minor league arms on the way.

If Beckett bombs out any further and Lowell walks without giving more in the power department, this may turn out to be the one trade that both hastens the marlins rebirth AND spirals the sox farm system into disarray for the next few yrs. At the time, I thought it was a lot to give up, but may have been a good deal, but hindsight is always 20/20 and this one may be a huge stinker for a long time if Beckett doesnt get his s*** straight.

[ORS]

I think the Beckett trade was one that gets done ten times out of ten. Beckett has tremendous raw talent and is still young. Yeah, they gave up a stud SS and some quality arms, but that deal only looks bad in hindsight, IMO.

 

The Bard/Meredith deal was a pure panic move, and a costly one.

[elsrbueno]

I think the Beckett trade was one that gets done ten times out of ten. Beckett has tremendous raw talent and is still young. Yeah, they gave up a stud SS and some quality arms, but that deal only looks bad in hindsight, IMO.

 

The Bard/Meredith deal was a pure panic move, and a costly one.

 

I agree 100% on both counts. At the time people all over baseball were wondering whether or not Hanley Ramirez had the plate patience and the bat to be a major league player. He was coming off of a pretty mediocre season in AA and even though he was still young, there was some doubt. So far, the doubters look wrong. I'd still like to see how Hanley does after the NL adjusts to him. If he continues to dominate, he can be considered a good player who got away. One season is not enough of a sample size to evaluate a trade.

 

Also, one thing we've got to keep in mind is that Pro Player (or whatever it's called these days) stadium is a COMPLETELY different environment than Fenway park. The opposition is weaker, the fans are indifferent or nonexistant, the park is more pitcher friendly, and there's no DH. Comparing Sanchez to Beckett on numbers alone is pointless and silly. Saying Sanchez would have been the same pitcher in Boston this year as he was in Florida is just plan stupid IMO.

 

SO, in my opinion the jury's still out on that trade.

 

On the Freddy Sanchez deal, I think that's a trade you make every time too. Last year was Freddy Sanchez at his peak performance IMO. He hits for a good average but that's about it. He's unspectacular with the glove and doesn't hit for power or have overwhelming speed. He's a decent player but at the time a decent 25 year old middle infielder with no power and no speed for a serviceable starter and a lefty reliever is a good trade.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that Sanchez is 28 years old, so he's at his peak level (age wise) right now. I don't think he gets any better than this.

[Cocos Disciples]

Freddy Gonzalez @ TheBaseballCube.com

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gonzami02.shtml#TRANS

 

Transactions

June 4, 1996: Drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 17th round of the 1996 amateur draft, but did not sign.

 

June 3, 1997: Drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 30th round of the 1997 amateur draft. Player signed June 24, 1997.

 

July 22, 2003: Traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates with Scott Sauerbeck to the Boston Red Sox for Brandon Lyon and Anastacio Martinez.

 

July 31, 2003: Traded by the Boston Red Sox with Freddy Sanchez and cash to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Brandon Lyon, Jeff Suppan, and Anastacio Martinez.

 

The original deal had to be re-worked.