Manny - Version 2006

[ORS]

Edes brought his hachet to work today.

 

Time to close curtain on this act

By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff | September 23, 2006

 

TORONTO -- In 2011, when Manny Ram?rez will be 39 years old, he will start to receive the first installment in 16 years of deferred payments. The checks that year will total slightly less than $2 million, and by the year 2026, when Ram?rez will be 54 and the checks are scheduled to amount to $2.043 million, Ram?rez will have collected close to $32 million in deferred payments, or twice the current payroll of the Florida Marlins.

 

Do you suppose that 20 years from now, Ram?rez will feel even the slightest bit of remorse for the way he quit on his Red Sox teammates in 2006, refusing to honor the code that is an article of faith for Jason Varitek and Mike Lowell, Curt Schilling and Coco Crisp, Trot Nixon and Alex Gonzalez, and Mark Loretta -- even the now-departed fat man, David Wells -- that you do all within your power to play hurt.

 

Barring a midlife conversion experience, I doubt it.

 

While the Red Sox crumbled when Ram?rez went on hiatus -- last night was the 22d game out of 30 Ram?rez has missed since taking himself out of the last game of the Yankee massacre Aug. 21, during which he has been paid $1.918 million (calculated on his base salary of $15 million this season) -- he had the audacity this week, through agent Greg Genske, to reiterate to the Red Sox his desire to be traded this winter.

 

I always thought the current value of money was higher than future value, so the deferred money is a favor to the team in my eye.

 

With the FO so closely integrated with the Globe I wonder if this is the first in a series to turn sentiment against him to prep the fanbase for a trade. Either way, this will be a s*** storm.

 

Good luck replacing the most consistently excellent hitter in the game of the last few decades.

[jsinger121]

Edes loses a lot of respect in my eyes with this article.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Manny Ramirez loses all my repect (the very little he had)

[a700hitter]

Edes brought his hachet to work today.

 

 

 

I always thought the current value of money was higher than future value, so the deferred money is a favor to the team in my eye.

 

With the FO so closely integrated with the Globe I wonder if this is the first in a series to turn sentiment against him to prep the fanbase for a trade. Either way, this will be a s*** storm.

 

Good luck replacing the most consistently excellent hitter in the game of the last few decades.

If they move Manny, be prepared for a third place finish and being out of any realistic playoff race by the end of June. Also, be prepared for Ortiz's production #'s to fall dramatically. Any manager will kick his pitcher in the balls if he gives Papi something to hit. I don't understand why they constantly look to replace the most consistently great RH hitter of our time. He's a nut case. We know that, but he's irreplaceable. It's really appalling that Edes will carry the FO water here if the FO is looking to engage in a smear Manny campaign. Manny hit the s*** out the ball in the Boston Massacre. He came to play. What was obvious in that series was that by starting the series with the "Ultimate Loser" Jason Johnson and the Rookie John Lester in the first two games of the series that the FO had quit on the team. Maybe it became obvious to Manny during the series that his efforts were wasted with such an undermanned squad. He had the bad knee for most of the season. Patelar tendinitis is not a joke. It can quickly turn into a devastating problem. Hey Edes, about some articles about what really happened this year. The FO botched the season from the beginning and quit at the trading deadline. Why don't you call them on that instead of constantly carrying their water. It's funny that outside of Boston, every writer and sports talk show host and knowledgeable fan know s the truth that the FO dismantled the 2004 team prematurely and left us watching a pile of crap. The whole Boston scene is just so incestuous. The Globe, the Herald an WEEI are all in bed with the FO and are afraid to offend them. They only jump on a story after everyone else. BTW: Every Yankee fan that I know would love for the "trade Manny" campaign to be successful. That should tell us something.

[ksushi]

I agree. Gotta keep manny. Unless you can get a hold of some of the young talent in the Anaheim system. If you can get Santana plus a prospect, christ, do it. Otherwise, hold onto Manny.

[a700hitter]

I agree. Gotta keep manny. Unless you can get a hold of some of the young talent in the Anaheim system. If you can get Santana plus a prospect' date=' christ, do it. Otherwise, hold onto Manny.[/quote']Even that would not do it. We'd be finishing third or worse for a minimum of 2-3 years.

[ORS]

Here's what I don't get. The claim is that Manny is unprofessional, a quitter, and a key complaint is about his frequent pleas to be traded because he's not happy here. When you look at his stats, that just doesn't add up. Despite being unhappy here, despite his treatment in the press, despite his feelings about the game/town/FO, he still puts up a 1.000 OPS every year. He's able to look beyond his feelings and excel at his job, which is the very definition of being professional.

 

And, I have to say, I don't blame him for wanting out. The mediots in Boston run rampant. The lunatics are running the assylum.

[a700hitter]

Here's what I don't get. The claim is that Manny is unprofessional, a quitter, and a key complaint is about his frequent pleas to be traded because he's not happy here. When you look at his stats, that just doesn't add up. Despite being unhappy here, despite his treatment in the press, despite his feelings about the game/town/FO, he still puts up a 1.000 OPS every year. He's able to look beyond his feelings and excel at his job, which is the very definition of being professional.

 

And, I have to say, I don't blame him for wanting out. The mediots in Boston run rampant. The lunatics are running the assylum.

ORS, you live outside of Boston like I do. The Yankee fans pray that we get rid of him and the Met fans want to get him. What to non Red Sox baseball fans in your area think about this annual "get rid of Manny" nonsense?

[ORS]

ORS' date=' you live outside of Boston like I do. The Yankee fans pray that we get rid of him and the Met fans want to get him. What to non Red Sox baseball fans in your area think about this annual "get rid of Manny" nonsense?[/quote']

I haven't met anyone who doesn't want him on their team. Well, I take that back, some of the "less than honest" Yankee fans say they don't want him, but I think that's just because they know they aren't getting him so they might as well feign indifference. The guy is one of 10 qualified players with a career OPS over 1.000. Only a liar doesn't want that guy on the team.

[a700hitter]

I haven't met anyone who doesn't want him on their team. Well' date=' I take that back, some of the "less than honest" Yankee fans say they don't want him, but I think that's just because they know they aren't getting him so they might as well feign indifference. The guy is one of 10 qualified players with a career OPS over 1.000. Only a liar doesn't want that guy on the team.[/quote']Even the lying Yankee fans that say they don't want him on their team, don't want him on the Red Sox.

[riverside sluggers]

Maybe thats why of the speculated reports that the Sox are again trying hard to acquire Andruw Jones. It could be a move not to replace Coco (who can play a better left than center), but rather to be a replacement bat for Manny if there ever can be one. :dunno:

[a700hitter]

Maybe thats why of the speculated reports that the Sox are again trying hard to acquire Andruw Jones. It could be a move not to replace Coco (who can play a better left than center)' date=' but rather to be a replacement bat for Manny if there ever can be one. :dunno:[/quote']RH hitters that could replace Manny is a very short list. The only one that comes to mind is Pujols, and that ain't gonna happen.

[ORS]

You have to start exhuming bodies to find people that can replace Manny's bat. Oh, and that stat about him being 1 of 10. If Helton has another year like this year, likely, he drops out and makes Manny 1 of 9. The other 8 are Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Bonds, Pujols, Foxx, Greenberg, Hornsby. I'd say that's good company to keep.

[a700hitter]

You have to start exhuming bodies to find people that can replace Manny's bat. Oh' date=' and that stat about him being 1 of 10. If Helton has another year like this year, likely, he drops out and makes Manny 1 of 9. The other 8 are Ruth, Williams, Gehrig, Bonds, Pujols, Foxx, Greenberg, Hornsby. I'd say that's good company to keep.[/quote']The other 8 were not on the trading block every offseason, not even Bonds with his personality defects and steroid problems. This FO is whacked in the way they use the press to destroy the reputations of HOF players like Manny and Pedro. I used get furious when I would read that Pedro had worn out his welcome in Boston. Whose welcome was worn out... the Press welcome? Whenever he pitched, it was a special event for the fans. They also destroyed Nomar's reputation post-trade through the press. BTW, despite all his injuries, he would have been a pretty good and yes cheap option at 1B this year. Not too many teams try to run bona fide HOF players out of town. There's a reason for that. Great players like Pedro and Manny don't grow on trees. We may not see players like them for another generation or two, if we are lucky.

[example1]

Jones would NOT be a replacement for Manny in my eyes. He would be a supplement to Manny on a good team.

 

The first time the FO was going to trade Manny (pre-04) they were going to replace his production and Nomar's production with A-Rod and Magglio. That would have been pretty good.

 

Honestly, I'm getting sick of the Boston media (and I too live outside the greater boston area)(or the greater new england area for that matter). They hype up any POSSIBLE feeling that fans might be having and are extremely fatalistic. A segment of fans boo a player and suddenly its "Boo birds get on Tavatez" or "Is manny faking it?" It's like a freaking tabloid existence.

 

I'm okay with trading Manny if necessary. He's a tremendous hitter, there's no doubt about that. However, I don't think he's irreplacable with the right combination of talent and positions. Give me Jarrod Weaver, Brandon Wood and Chone Figgins and I'll probably trade Manny. I'm skeptical of Ervin Santana as a major trading piece.

 

Finally, I agree that trading Manny for a collection of blooming stars and top prospects would be the equivalent of hanging it up for the next year or two. Either they make a run at a WS with Ortiz and Manny and Schilling, or we'll have to wait for the next chapter.

[a700hitter]

Jones would NOT be a replacement for Manny in my eyes. He would be a supplement to Manny on a good team.

 

The first time the FO was going to trade Manny (pre-04) they were going to replace his production and Nomar's production with A-Rod and Magglio. That would have been pretty good.

 

Honestly, I'm getting sick of the Boston media (and I too live outside the greater boston area)(or the greater new england area for that matter). They hype up any POSSIBLE feeling that fans might be having and are extremely fatalistic. A segment of fans boo a player and suddenly its "Boo birds get on Tavatez" or "Is manny faking it?" It's like a freaking tabloid existence.

 

I'm okay with trading Manny if necessary. He's a tremendous hitter, there's no doubt about that. However, I don't think he's irreplacable with the right combination of talent and positions. Give me Jarrod Weaver, Brandon Wood and Chone Figgins and I'll probably trade Manny. I'm skeptical of Ervin Santana as a major trading piece.

 

Finally, I agree that trading Manny for a collection of blooming stars and top prospects would be the equivalent of hanging it up for the next year or two. Either they make a run at a WS with Ortiz and Manny and Schilling, or we'll have to wait for the next chapter.

Chone Figgins is every bit the prima donna that manny is with about 1/10th of the talent.

[example1]

Chone Figgins is every bit the prima donna that manny is with about 1/10th of the talent.

 

And 1/10th the salary. I wouldn't mind having him on my team as a super utility player. Imagine a team that has Coco Crisp and Chone Figgins on the bench.

[riverside sluggers]

And 1/10th the salary. I wouldn't mind having him on my team as a super utility player. Imagine a team that has Coco Crisp and Chone Figgins on the bench.

 

Coco Crisp would not be a 4th outfielder for the Sox. Name how many 4th outfielders still have contracts left of 3 years/$15.5 million. Its also highly unlikely Coco would warm to being a bench player. If Sox go after Andruw Jones, and Manny is still on the team, look for Coco to be moved

[a700hitter]

And 1/10th the salary. I wouldn't mind having him on my team as a super utility player. Imagine a team that has Coco Crisp and Chone Figgins on the bench.

Who would protect Ortiz on such a team? You would have an offense with no pop just like the Angels.

[example1]

Coco Crisp would not be a 4th outfielder for the Sox. Name how many 4th outfielders still have contracts left of 3 years/$15.5 million. Its also highly unlikely Coco would warm to being a bench player. If Sox go after Andruw Jones' date=' and Manny is still on the team, look for Coco to be moved[/quote']

 

Right, this was under the assumption that Manny wouldn't still be on the team.

 

If the sox really wanted to spend some money then a great lineup for next year could be something like:

 

Youkilis

Pedroia

Ortiz

Manny

Jones

Ramirez

Pena

Varitek

Gonzo

 

(That's with Pena somehow playing 1B and Youk moving to 3B).

[a700hitter]

Right, this was under the assumption that Manny wouldn't still be on the team.

 

If the sox really wanted to spend some money then a great lineup for next year could be something like:

 

Youkilis

Pedroia

Ortiz

Manny

Jones

Ramirez

Pena

Varitek

Gonzo

 

(That's with Pena somehow playing 1B and Youk moving to 3B).

I am assuming that Ramirez is Aramis Ramirez. Why wouldn't he be playing third with Wily Mo in RF and Youk staying at 1B.

[example1]

I am assuming that Ramirez is Aramis Ramirez. Why wouldn't he be playing third with Wily Mo in RF and Youk staying at 1B.

 

 

Yeah, sorry. You're right. I was basing this off of an MLB-The Show team I'm working right now that has Ellsbury leading off (its the '09 season) and playing CF with A. Jones in RF. I'm an idiot today a700, I apolgize.

 

 

Anyway, that's a pretty sick lineup right there.

 

1B Youkilis

2B Pedroia

DH Ortiz

LF Manny

CF A Jones

3B A Ramirez

RF W Pena

C Varitek

SS Gonzo

 

Youk and Pedroia should be able to get on base over and over again. If either youk or dusty get on base then they have Ortiz, manny, Andruw and Aramis to drive them in. If Ortiz or Manny walks then there's still 2 100+ RBI men behind them.

 

If I'm the sox I'm shooting for this lineup, regardless of the cost. I'll take that lineup with

 

Schilling

Beckett

Papelbon

Wakefield

Tavarez/Lester/FA

 

even if we don't add a Zito/Matsuzaka/Schmidt this is a pretty good team. Hopefully we will add those guys though.

 

In any case, I want to see Manny stick around for as long as he plays baseball. I really like that guy.

[a700hitter]

Yeah, sorry. You're right. I was basing this off of an MLB-The Show team I'm working right now that has Ellsbury leading off (its the '09 season) and playing CF with A. Jones in RF. I'm an idiot today a700, I apolgize.

 

 

Anyway, that's a pretty sick lineup right there.

 

1B Youkilis

2B Pedroia

DH Ortiz

LF Manny

CF A Jones

3B A Ramirez

RF W Pena

C Varitek

SS Gonzo

 

Youk and Pedroia should be able to get on base over and over again. If either youk or dusty get on base then they have Ortiz, manny, Andruw and Aramis to drive them in. If Ortiz or Manny walks then there's still 2 100+ RBI men behind them.

 

If I'm the sox I'm shooting for this lineup, regardless of the cost. I'll take that lineup with

 

Schilling

Beckett

Papelbon

Wakefield

Tavarez/Lester/FA

 

even if we don't add a Zito/Matsuzaka/Schmidt this is a pretty good team. Hopefully we will add those guys though.

 

In any case, I want to see Manny stick around for as long as he plays baseball. I really like that guy.

I like the lineup, but I'd pass on Aramis Ramirez, because I don't think the additional offense that he produces makes up for the D we would lose with Lowell. I'd prefer to keep Loretta in the 2 hole with Pedroia getting action at 2nd, 3rd and SS.

 

In the pitching rotation, I'd prefer to let Wakefield and Tavarez fight it out for the 5th slot while acquiring a top stud through trade or FA to take the first or second slot. I don't think Lester can be counted on for much next season. Has any major sports figure recovered from this specific cancer sufficiently enough to return as a productive professional athletic career?

[example1]

I like the lineup, but I'd pass on Aramis Ramirez, because I don't think the additional offense that he produces makes up for the D we would lose with Lowell. I'd prefer to keep Loretta in the 2 hole with Pedroia getting action at 2nd, 3rd and SS.

 

In the pitching rotation, I'd prefer to let Wakefield and Tavarez fight it out for the 5th slot while acquiring a top stud through trade or FA to take the first or second slot. I don't think Lester can be counted on for much next season. Has any major sports figure recovered from this specific cancer sufficiently enough to return as a productive professional athletic career?

 

Mario Lemieux had Hodgkin's Disease, while Lester has non-hodgkins lymphoma. They are both Lymphomas, but I'm not sure about the differences in severity between the two. He came back productively. Lester is SO young that I imagine IF he survives he will survive and try to pitch.

[a700hitter]

Mario Lemieux had Hodgkin's Disease' date=' while Lester has non-hodgkins lymphoma. They are both Lymphomas, but I'm not sure about the differences in severity between the two. He came back productively. Lester is SO young that I imagine IF he survives he will survive and try to pitch.[/quote']I'm not an MD, but I believe that there is a significant difference between Hodgkins and non-Hodgkins lymphoma. That's why I asked if there has been any precedence for this with athletes. If not, the doctors may not even know his chances of returning as a productive athlete.

[example1]

I'm not an MD' date=' but I believe that there is a significant difference between Hodgkins and non-Hodgkins lymphoma. That's why I asked if there has been any precedence for this with athletes. If not, the doctors may not even know his chances of returning as a productive athlete.[/quote']

 

The form he has is very rare. I doubt its come up before.

[v2freak]

Keep Manny in Boston!

[Teddyballgame10]

Even that would not do it. We'd be finishing third or worse for a minimum of 2-3 years.

 

This is so true

[MANNYHOF24]

O.K first off, Nixon missed a month and so did Varitek, Wells pitched for us like 5 times, yeah they are playing now, but they are healthy again. Why risk further injury to Manny's knee when the games dont count. He did try to come back when we had a still had a "shot". Edes STFU.

[Anuj09]

Andruw Jones is waaayyy too much of a free swinger if we got him i would think that theo would flip him to the Astros like the initialy plan