Now thats Classy

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I think you are missing the point. A 1.000 OPS from a DH/1B is quite common. Thome' date=' Howard, Ortiz, Pujols, Hafner, and Berkman all are above 1.000. A .900 OPS from a MIF is actually more rare. Only 3 are doing it now (Jeter, Guillen, Durham ).[/quote']

 

No I understand and I'm not dismissing the fact he is doing very well. However, David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Ryan Howard, Albert Pujols, Travis Hafner, and Lance Berkman are all better hitters than Derek Jeter. How about Carlos Guillen....his numbers are right up there with Derek Jeter....why isn't he involved in the MVP talks....oh because he is not on the Yankees.

 

It just wouldn't make sense to anyone other than NY Yankee fans why Derek Jeter would be the MVP.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

No I understand and I'm not dismissing the fact he is doing very well. However, David Ortiz, Jim Thome, Ryan Howard, Albert Pujols, Travis Hafner, and Lance Berkman are all better hitters than Derek Jeter. How about Carlos Guillen....his numbers are right up there with Derek Jeter....why isn't he involved in the MVP talks....oh because he is not on the Yankees.

 

It just wouldn't make sense to anyone other than NY Yankee fans why Derek Jeter would be the MVP.

 

They might be better hitters but if we are talking about value it is harder to find a middle of the field type player (Jeter and Mauer) with 900+ OPS then DH/1B/OF with OPS near or over 1.000. Thus making them valuable.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

They might be better hitters but if we are talking about value it is harder to find a middle of the field type player (Jeter and Mauer) with 900+ OPS then DH/1B/OF with OPS near or over 1.000. Thus making them valuable.

 

Either way they are still better. Look at Miguel Tejada and Alex Rodriguez and the numbers they needed to put up in order to win an MVP at that position. Think about Nomar and the years he put up at SS and didn't win an MVP award. He was the batting champion twice and never won it. I can't put Derek Jeter's 2006 season in the same category at those guys and the years they were able to put together at SS.

 

Add Soriano to the list as well and the 30-30 seasons he was able to have without winning an MVP award.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Either way they are still better. Look at Miguel Tejada and Alex Rodriguez and the numbers they needed to put up in order to win an MVP at that position. Think about Nomar and the years he put up at SS and didn't win an MVP award. He was the batting champion twice and never won it. I can put Derek Jeter's 2006 season in the same category at those guys and the years they were able to put together at SS.

 

A-Rod should have won the MVP every single year he was in Texas. Believe it or not but Tejada has never put up an OPS as high as Jeter has this year. In fact Tejada has never had a year like Jeter's best season (1999 which you can also make a strong case he should have won it then).

[ORS]

A-Rod should have won the MVP every single year he was in Texas. Believe it or not but Tejada has never put up an OPS as high as Jeter has this year. In fact Tejada has never had a year like Jeter's best season (1999 which you can also make a strong case he should have won it then).

Yeah, '99 was highway robbery, but not from Jeter. Petey should have won that award hands down. He lost because two NY writers didn't even put him on the ballot -- 1st, 2nd, or 3rd -- with one saying he doesn't vote for pitchers. Of course, someone looks it up and finds out he voted for a pitcher to win it in the past. This is just more of a reason to not give two-shits about these awards. Some of the voters go in with agendas, not recognizing greatness, in mind.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Yeah' date=' '99 was highway robbery, but not from Jeter. Petey should have won that award hands down. He lost because two NY writers didn't even put him on the ballot -- 1st, 2nd, or 3rd -- with one saying he doesn't vote for pitchers. Of course, someone looks it up and finds out he voted for a pitcher to win it in the past. This is just more of a reason to not give two-shits about these awards. Some of the voters go in with agendas, not recognizing greatness, in mind.[/quote']

 

I was thinking about position players. I believe it was George King that left him off the ballot which caused him to not win it. BTW who won it in 99? Was it Juan Gone? Like I said sports writers are morons. The GG is a joke, the Cy Young is pretty much who ever wins the most games.

[Cocos Disciples]

I was thinking about position players. I believe it was George King that left him off the ballot which caused him to not win it. BTW who won it in 99? Was it Juan Gone? Like I said sports writers are morons. The GG is a joke' date=' the [b']Cy Young is pretty much who ever wins the most games[/b].

 

 

Yeah, last year was ridiculous, Santana had Colon beat in every stat except wins.

[a700hitter]

I think you are missing the point. A 1.000 OPS from a DH/1B is quite common. Thome' date=' Howard, Ortiz, Pujols, Hafner, and Berkman all are above 1.000. A .900 OPS from a MIF is actually more rare. Only 3 are doing it now (Jeter, Guillen, Durham ).[/quote']And more OF's are in the HOF than middle infielders. That doesn't mean that the bar should be lower for MIFs.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Yeah' date=' last year was ridiculous, Santana had Colon beat in every stat except wins.[/quote']

 

Last year was the only time it ever really drove me nuts. Thank god Santana leads the league in wins this year.

[ORS]

I think you should be judged against your peers when assessing career greatness or seasonal value. Your peers are those that play the same position as you. OF's and CIF's can do impressive things that MIF's can't, and vice versa.

[Jon_Papelboner]

26 in a row. Jeter's all but locked it up.

[CrespoBlows]

The MVP trophy should reside in Minnesota after the year. Mauer, Morneau, Santana, you can't really go wrong.

[Jon_Papelboner]

The MVP trophy should reside in Minnesota after the year. Mauer' date=' Morneau, Santana, you can't really go wrong.[/quote']

 

Yeah, maybe. But it's jeter's to lose.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I was thinking about position players. I believe it was George King that left him off the ballot which caused him to not win it. BTW who won it in 99? Was it Juan Gone? Like I said sports writers are morons. The GG is a joke' date=' the Cy Young is pretty much who ever wins the most games.[/quote']

 

I'll agree with you on all points made in this post. The awards for other sports make much more sense but a majority of that is based on the fact the stats are more easy to determine the best player. Hockey, Football, Basketball....the stats tell the story for the most part where in baseball you have to determine a guys OPS, OBP, AVG, HRs, RBI, etc etc etc.....and in the end its left to retards making a pick that make no sense.

[BudLight]

We talk about Jeter and Ortiz for MVP, how about Frank Thomas. He is undoubtedly the main reason the A's are in first place in the AL West. He is carrying that team and has been for over a month now. Adjusting his number of at bats to equal Ortiz and his AB to HR ratio, he would trail Papi by two homers right now and adjusting his AB to RBI he would have 130 right now. He is definitely the comeback player of the year in the AL and IMO deserves serious consideration for MVP along with Ortiz, Mauer, Morneau and Dye.

[rician blast]

We talk about Jeter and Ortiz for MVP' date=' how about Frank Thomas. He is undoubtedly the main reason the A's are in first place in the AL West. He is carrying that team and has been for over a month now. Adjusting his number of at bats to equal Ortiz and his AB to HR ratio, he would trail Papi by two homers right now and adjusting his AB to RBI he would have 130 right now. He is definitely the comeback player of the year in the AL and IMO deserves serious consideration for MVP along with Ortiz, Mauer, Morneau and Dye.[/quote']

 

Thomas has been good...the issue you'd get with him is that he's a DH and as Papi said that'll be held against you.

 

Also doing the same math your doing, the projection for Hafner would be 48 HRs and 134 RBIs, but he's hitting 28 pts higher than Thomas, so I think Thomas will fall short, because even Hafner gets very little real consideration for this award.

 

If I really pick it apart, I'm inclined to say that Dye is having the best offensive-stat year. His OPS is second only to Papi in the AL, he's hitting HRs, driving in runs, and also hitting for average....the one thing I see glaring with him is he has only about 1/2 the BB's as Ortiz, Hafner, Thome and Giambi. How much of that is a product of lack of discipline versus the line-up each is in I don't know....given Thome hits behind him, that may, on the surface, seem to explain why he gets pitched to more often...but then again, Ortiz has Manny behind him and still walks a lot.

 

Personally if I didn't hear all the Jeter for MVP discussion recently he wouldn't even have entered my mind, unless I was trying to see who I thought should be 3rd or 4th in the voting. I'm obviously missing something here, because although he's having a great year, I don't see, in terms of past years voting, how he is garnering such consideration.

 

I should also point out that I really don't give a sh*t who wins it so I'm coming at this pretty objectively. So why Jeter?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

So why Jeter?

 

He has over a .900 OPS and plays for the Yankees. Thats all I've been able to get out of people.....its a great argument.

[ORS]

Thomas has been good...the issue you'd get with him is that he's a DH and as Papi said that'll be held against you.

 

Also doing the same math your doing, the projection for Hafner would be 48 HRs and 134 RBIs, but he's hitting 28 pts higher than Thomas, so I think Thomas will fall short, because even Hafner gets very little real consideration for this award.

 

If I really pick it apart, I'm inclined to say that Dye is having the best offensive-stat year. His OPS is second only to Papi in the AL, he's hitting HRs, driving in runs, and also hitting for average....the one thing I see glaring with him is he has only about 1/2 the BB's as Ortiz, Hafner, Thome and Giambi. How much of that is a product of lack of discipline versus the line-up each is in I don't know....given Thome hits behind him, that may, on the surface, seem to explain why he gets pitched to more often...but then again, Ortiz has Manny behind him and still walks a lot.

 

Personally if I didn't hear all the Jeter for MVP discussion recently he wouldn't even have entered my mind, unless I was trying to see who I thought should be 3rd or 4th in the voting. I'm obviously missing something here, because although he's having a great year, I don't see, in terms of past years voting, how he is garnering such consideration.

 

I should also point out that I really don't give a sh*t who wins it so I'm coming at this pretty objectively. So why Jeter?

Dye was hitting 5th with Pierzynski behind him for about the first 4 months of the year. His lack of walks is all his, not lineup protection.

[rdsxfan4eva]

That is baseball. To me it sounds like he is pissed off about the wholw thing, but like you said it is very hard for a dh to get the mvp.

[rician blast]

Dye was hitting 5th with Pierzynski behind him for about the first 4 months of the year. His lack of walks is all his' date=' not lineup protection.[/quote']

 

Wow, didn't realize that...in my mind that's an important stat, but of course all of this can be overanalyzed sometimes, as I'm probably doing right now.

 

As for Jetes, he lacks the power numbers you'd typically expect for an MVP. Look at the last four:

 

2005 Alex Rodriguez New York

2004 Vladimir Guerrero Anaheim

2003 Alex Rodriguez Texas

2002 Miguel Tejada Oakland

 

All of these guys awards were predicated upon a combination of avg., HRs and RBIs...big numbers...each hit at least 34 HRs the year they won it. In 2001 it was Ichiro, who only hit 8 HRs, but had 242 hits, a .350 Avg., 56 SB's, and scored 127 times. Ichiro beat out some guys with monster years in 2001 (ARod and Giambi, Thome, etc.) mainly because his team had the best record in MLB with 116 wins.

 

This friggin award is based upon to much ancillary crap...which I think is why Jeter can somehow be sold to the writers as a leading candidate based on certain specific issues in lieu of monster-year numbers (i.e. the "look what he did for them when had all those injuries" line of thinking, the .900 OPS by a shortstop, etc.).

[BudLight]

To start I guess we would have to agree on the criteria for MVP. Power, team standing, hits, obp, ops, avg????

 

Here's a snapshot:

 

Avg R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB OBP SLG OPS TB

 

Jeter 0.341 107 197 36 3 13 93 66 95 31 0.416 0.481 0.897 278

 

Ortiz 0.283 107 148 28 2 49 129 107 108 1 0.405 0.625 1.031 327

 

Mauer 0.344 79 165 32 4 11 79 77 46 8 0.431 0.497 0.928 238

 

Dye 0.32 95 163 27 3 42 117 55 112 7 0.387 0.633 1.02 322

 

Thomas 0.28 73 120 10 0 38 105 74 73 0 0.39 0.57 0.96 244

 

Morneau 0.32 88 172 34 1 33 123 50 83 3 0.376 0.571 0.946 307

[rician blast]

To start I guess we would have to agree on the criteria for MVP. Power, team standing, hits, obp, ops, avg????

 

Here's a snapshot:

 

Avg R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB OBP SLG OPS TB

 

Jeter 0.341 107 197 36 3 13 93 66 95 31 0.416 0.481 0.897 278

 

Ortiz 0.283 107 148 28 2 49 129 107 108 1 0.405 0.625 1.031 327

 

Mauer 0.344 79 165 32 4 11 79 77 46 8 0.431 0.497 0.928 238

 

Dye 0.32 95 163 27 3 42 117 55 112 7 0.387 0.633 1.02 322

 

Thomas 0.28 73 120 10 0 38 105 74 73 0 0.39 0.57 0.96 244

 

Morneau 0.32 88 172 34 1 33 123 50 83 3 0.376 0.571 0.946 307

 

 

meanwhile HAfner has Dye's numbers but has double Dye's walks, which pumps up his OBP and OPS...if the Guardians didn't suck he'd be right there.

[BudLight]

No doubt Hafner deserves serious consideration, I was just listing those players whose names seem to be getting thrown into the MVP consideration pot with more regularity by the media. After all, the media decides.

[Mr Crunchy]

nobody has longer eyelashes than derek jeter

that and his creamy coco butter like skin should clinch it for him

[HeadOfSoxNation]

nobody has longer eyelashes than derek jeter

that and his creamy coco butter like skin should clinch it for him

 

I laughed out loud at this, and I'm sitting in class. My teacher asked me what was so funny, and I had to make something up about finding the accounting equation hysterical. Thanks for getting me in trouble. :thumbsup:

[BudLight]

Okay, I stated before, Jeter deserves consideration for MVP along with a host of others. However, the argument here always comes back to, nobody can provide any justification for Jeter being considered for MVP. So here goes: He will accumulate over 200 hits again this year (along with Tejada, Young and Suzuki). He leads AL shortstops in Avg, OPS, OBP and Runs. He was a constant offensive threat in a lineup this year that lost two starters for most of the season who bat nearly .300 and drive in a lot of runs. His team is solidly in first place in their division with a 10 game lead this late in the season. Does this give him the edge for MVP, NO, but it sure does mean he deserves serious consideration.

[rician blast]

Okay' date=' I stated before, Jeter deserves consideration for MVP along with a host of others. However, the argument here always comes back to, nobody can provide any justification for Jeter being considered for MVP. So here goes: He will accumulate over 200 hits again this year (along with Tejada, Young and Suzuki). He leads AL shortstops in Avg, OPS, OBP and Runs. He was a constant offensive threat in a lineup this year that lost two starters for most of the season who bat nearly .300 and drive in a lot of runs. His team is solidly in first place in their division with a 10 game lead this late in the season. Does this give him the edge for MVP, NO, but it sure does mean he deserves serious consideration.[/quote']

 

 

When both Matsui and Sheffield were out, the line-up probably went as follows:

 

Damon

Jeter

Giambi

ARod

Posada

Williams Cabrera

 

I'd say that's still one of the best lineups in the AL so I don't think Jeter's numbers have been that negatively impacted by these losses.

 

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned his SB numbers...I think he's like 32 of 35...that's pretty damn good, no?

 

Yeah he's a candidate, he's having a great year, and his TEAM is having a great year, which will help him out...which all goes to show how subjective the voting is. The more I think o fit, the more I understand Papi's comments, and the less this award means.

[Mr Crunchy]

barry bonds 1 year almost won the triple crown and they gave the mvp to terry pendleton,a nice ballplayer on a nice brave team in 1991-92 maybe

pendleton didnt have 20hrs id bet??

pedro gets more 1st place votes than anyone and 2 writers refused to give him top 10 consideration in 99? i think

he lost out

 

albert belle had 50hrs and 50 dbls in 95

on a team that went to the world series

but

because he was a world class *******

he got beat by mo vaughn

and as a boston fan

i will admit didnt deserve it

 

its a popularity contest with as much merit as the allstar game selections

none

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

52 HRs for David Ortiz....more reason he should be the MVP....amazing he can do this without Manny batting behind him.

[a700hitter]

If he didn't miss the time with the heart arrhythmia he would might have had a chance at 60.