Now thats Classy

[He Hate Me]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

 

Admittedly I'm a Yankee fan so I definetely see the downside of Ortiz' making these type of comments. While I don't necessarily disagree with him, I tend to think that maybe having this kind of attitude combined with the comments he made last year during the MVP race, that perhaps his attitude and more importantly his willingness to express his attitude has more of an effect on him not winning it than the fact he's a DH. I guess he thought he was the only key to the 2004 championship and that guys like Orlando Cabrera and Curt Schilling had nothing to do with it. I just want to know Mr. Ortiz, would you have been able to distract Mo in Game 4 enough while your team was on the brink of elimination? I guess Dave Roberts, Orlando Cabrera and everyone else who contributed in 2004 don't realy count since they didn't hit 40 home runs.

 

Again, I think if Ortiz hits a couple more HRs, you have to give him the MVP as much as I love Jeter. There is no need for Ortiz to make such presumptive comments before the balloting. All it does is make him look whatever the opposite of his cultivated "big papi" image is supposed to be.

 

Of particular interest was this gem from "Big Papi"

 

"Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be."

 

That sound you hear is the bus backing up with Big Papi's teammates underneath. Sorry David, not everyone in the lineup gets to hit with Manny batting right behind them.

[a700hitter]

All it does is make him look whatever the opposite of his cultivated "big papi" image is supposed to be.

This somehow makes him look less like a clutch player who is beloved by the fans and feared by opposing pitchers? Really? How so?

[He Hate Me]

"Big Papi" is a term of affection used by hispanic people and from what I understand often means someone who is a lovable person, not a crybaby, which I think anyone can plainly see thats what he comes off as in this gem of an article where he manages to throw his team under the boss and throw out the contributions of every person on your championship team who didn't hit 40 HR and 100 RBI, since he asserts that they're the ones helping the club to win. Apparently he doesn't believe in things like leadership, defense, chemistry...or maybe he does, but the point is he doesn't convey that in his comments, which makes him sound like...a crybaby.

[Optimist]

"But they'll vote for a position player, use that as an excuse. They're talking about [Derek] Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games.

 

The Red Sox are winning games?

[yankeessuck013]

He's right though..let's compare:

 

Red Sox: Manny (only real threat)

Yankees: A-Rod, Giambi, Abreu, Damon, Posada, Cano...Let's not forget Matsui or Sheffield.

[a700hitter]

"Big Papi" is a term of affection used by hispanic people and from what I understand often means someone who is a lovable person' date=' not a crybaby, which I think anyone can plainly see thats what he comes off as in this gem of an article where he manages to throw his team under the boss and throw out the contributions of every person on your championship team who didn't hit 40 HR and 100 RBI, since he asserts that they're the ones helping the club to win. Apparently he doesn't believe in things like leadership, defense, chemistry...or maybe he does, but the point is he doesn't convey that in his comments, which makes him sound like...a crybaby.[/quote']He's making the point that Jeter is not a power guy in the Yankee lineup. He's not responsible for knocking in runs. He depends on the likes of ARod, Giambi and others to drive him in. If he switched places with Ortiz, he'd just be a pop-gun hitter with no one to drive him in, because the opposing pitchers would just walk Manny. It's no secret that the Red Sox lineup is only two guys. The rest are garbage. I am glad someone is finally saying it. Let the FO sit up and take notice regarding what Ortiz is saying--- that without him and Manny they are worse than the Royals. I wish someone on the team would start talking about the pitiful pitching. The writers won't give Papi the MVP. They'll use some trumped up excuse or combination of excuses, such as his team didn't win or he's a DH. It's all bogus. He's the most feared hitter in the league. All sorts of defenses are employed to try to stop him. Nothing has worked. Teams sign pitchers specifically to get him out, e.g Myers. Is anything like that done to defense Jeter? No, because he doesn't compare to Papi with a bat in his hand, and by the way, ARod is not the only guy on the left-side of the Yankee infield that has not fielded very well this year. But he's a skankee, and the Yanke homer writers with man-crushes on Jeter will think of a way to rob Ortiz again.

 

The fielding argument cracks me up. Let me get this straight, fielding is a plus, even if you are a terrible fielder that hurts your team. That just makes no sense at all. I would take the position that Papi is a better fielder than either MVPs Giambi or Frank Thomas. It's just a bogus excuse by people looking to screw the big guy. In the past, I had never heard one word uttered in the MVP debate about the fielding of terrible fielders who were detriments to their team's defense. If someone is an exceptional fielder, it should be factored into the equation, but it shouldn't overcome a huge difference in offense numbers like this year. If a player is an average fielder, it should be only the slightest of factors if the competition is a DH. If a fielder is poor or below average, that should count against him in the voting. I am sorry, but that is the only way to be fair if fielding is going to be a criteria for the voters.

[Cityofchampions33]

In my opinion, I disagree, and don't think Papi's evaluation of what the MVP award is, however it might be twisted with how its been ahndled recently, like with ARod getting it when he was in Texas even though they didnt make any type of season. This season i honestly think Jeter should be MVP. He's been hitting amazing all eyar with little or very unnoticeable slumps and has caried his team at the plate and in the field. However I do agree that he has a much better lineup around him, which should have some sort of affect on how many votes he gets.

[example1]

I think the MVP should be the player who is the msot important player relative to the rest of his team as well as to his team's success within the league. Therefore, if the Guardians had made the playoffs this season I would likely have said Hafner. Since his tremendous performance didn't have the mythical quality of keeping his otherwise mediocre team in the playoff hunt, then he probably doesn't deserve MVP.

 

If he plays on an excellent team then his season doesn't have to be mythical it simply has to be very very good. Jeter is having an MVP caliber season. So is Ortiz. So is Dye.

 

It definitely could go to Ortiz though. He's having a season that's as good as last season, and there is nobody putting up A-Rod type numbers. The sox may not have won enough to make him MVP, but he has done all he can, that's for sure.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Papi has me a little confused here. He thinks Boston falling out of playoff race shouldnt hurt his chances then he says this:

 

 

Ortiz said if he had a vote, he might cast it for Jermaine Dye or Paul Konerko of the Chicago White Sox, or Justin Morneau of the Minnesota Twins.

 

"All depends on who makes the playoffs," he said. "Dye is having an unbelievable season, an incredible year. Konerko, too.

 

Complaining wont get you anywhere Papi.

[empirestrikesback26]

News to Ortez: It is not who hits the most homers and has the most RBI's, it is who helps the team the most. Ortez has no chance at all now that his team is out of it. Just an idiotic thing to say which surprises me. I used to think he was a pretty cool guy, but after saying this, I have all lost respect as a person.

[example1]

News to Ortez: It is not who hits the most homers and has the most RBI's' date=' it is who helps the team the most. Ortez has no chance at all now that his team is out of it. Just an idiotic thing to say which surprises me. I used to think he was a pretty cool guy, but after saying this, I have all lost respect as a person.[/quote']

 

 

A little harsh, don't you think? I suppose if it was that easy then you've never had much respect for him. Athletes who put up a season like that can want an MVP. Is Ryan Howard going to win it in the NL? What if he didn't?

[empirestrikesback26]

A little harsh' date=' don't you think? I suppose if it was that easy then you've never had much respect for him. Athletes who put up a season like that can want an MVP. Is Ryan Howard going to win it in the NL? What if he didn't?[/quote']

 

It's just an ignorant and idiotic thing to say, and I was really dissapointed when I heard it because I didn't think he was like that. Putting down Jeter just because he doesn't have 40 homers and 120 RBI's? Is that all baseball is to him? Sorry but there's more to baseball than the glamor stats.

[a700hitter]

News to Ortez: It is not who hits the most homers and has the most RBI's' date=' it is who helps the team the most. Ortez has no chance at all now that his team is out of it.[/quote']Just as it dropped ARod out of contention when Texas finished in last place or Ernie Banks when the Cubs finished last. The fact is that without Ortiz the Red Sox would have finished last. He kept them in the race for a long time. He's the single most outstanding and feared offensive force in the AL. He should win hands down.

[a700hitter]

It's just an ignorant and idiotic thing to say' date=' and I was really dissapointed when I heard it because I didn't think he was like that. Putting down Jeter just because he doesn't have 40 homers and 120 RBI's? Is that all baseball is to him? Sorry but there's more to baseball than the glamor stats.[/quote']You mean things like intangibles? Plenty of s*** players like Alex Cora, Miguel Cairo etc.provide intangibles. The funny thing is guys that hit 45-50 Hrs and knock in 140+ runs every year don't need to hit behind runners or bunt or work a key walk after fouling off a lot of pitches or executing a hit and run. In fact, if they attempted to do any of that intangible stuff, the manager would call him into his office a ream him out. The 40-50 Hr guy is paid to break games open and wreck pitchers. Lots more guys in the majors can supply the intangibles. Very few can put the ball out of the park and knock in runs as consistently as Ortiz.

[Sox fan in Tex]

The Red Sox are winning games?

 

Jeter plays a good SS?

[empirestrikesback26]

Just as it dropped ARod out of contention when Texas finished in last place or Ernie Banks when the Cubs finished last. The fact is that without Ortiz the Red Sox would have finished last. He kept them in the race for a long time. He's the single most outstanding and feared offensive force in the AL. He should win hands down.

 

Oh he kept them out of last place?!?! What an accomplishment!! Stop while you're ahead, or in this case, just stop before it gets any worse. A rod's stats were far and away better than anybody else while having nobody around him. Ortez is on a good team with manny, and his stats aren't as far away as A rod's were from competition. And on top of that, A rod played a very good SS. Don't even both brining that up, cause it holds no water in the defense of Ortez. He has no chance.

[empirestrikesback26]

You mean things like intangibles? Plenty of s*** players like Alex Cora' date=' Miguel Cairo etc. The funny thing is guys that hit 45-50 Hrs and knock in 140+ runs every year don't need to hit behind runners or bunt or work a key walk after fouling of a lot of pitches or executing a hit and run. In fact, if they attempted to do any of that intangible stuff, the manager would call him into his office a ream him out. The 40-50 Hr guy is paid to break games open and wreck pitchers. Lots more guys in the majors can supply the intangibles. Very few can put the ball out of the park and knock in runs as consistently as Ortiz.[/quote']

 

Dye has a better shot than Ortez if all you want to consider are stats. Dye plays defense and is on a competetive team. In fact, Dye probably has a better chance that Jeter. Right now it's:

 

1. Dye

2. Jeter

3. Mourneau

4. Ortez

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I actually like Mauer alot. a .940 OPS for catcher is quite good.

[RedRuffing15]

Does anyone else feel that him saying 'Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be." is almost like saying everyone on his team sucks?

 

I personally don't care if he wins MVP..becuase I don't care about MVP at all, but the fact that he comes out year after year to say he should, someway or another, I think is a little low, and ultimatly pointless.

[a700hitter]

A rod's stats were far and away better than anybody else while having nobody around him. Ortez is on a good team with manny' date=' and his stats aren't as far away as A rod's were from competition. [/quote']Ortiz' stats are far and away better than Jeter, so your own justification for "Texas ARod's" MVP should eliminate Jeter from contention. Ortiz is first in Homers, RBI, and total bases. He's 2nd in Runs, third in Slugging %, and fourth in OPS. Texas ARod was first in Homers, Runs, and slugging; 2nd in RBI and Total Bases; 3rd in OPS. I don't see how ARod's season was so much more dominant. Also, as far as value as in "Most Valuable", the Rangers could have finished last without ARod, so he apparently had no value to that team. There is no way the Red Sox finish second and contend until mid August without Papi. That is value. Value to a team doesn't necessarily mean first place, but how can there be any value to a team that finishes last?

 

The final word on Ortiz' value to his team is the reaction of the opposing fans when he comes to the plate in a big spot. You all know just how much you s*** yourselves in those spots. He scares you more than anyother hitter. There's no way that you have that feeling when Dye or Morneau come to bat. That's just laughable.

[Joeroafan]

Dye should win MVp

[He Hate Me]

He's making the point that Jeter is not a power guy in the Yankee lineup. blah blah blah blah

 

If you bothered to read my entire post, you woulda seen that I BOLDED the part where I said I agreed with him. My issue isn't with his comments to an extent (I disagree with his comment about the 40-100 thing, I think that's just ignorant).

 

My contention with him is the classless way he's going about promoting himself for the MVP award just exactly the same classless way he promoted himself last year for it. I think that probably affects writers just as much if not more than the fact that he's a DH. I never brought Jeter into the debate nor said he's a better candidate than Ortiz, Dye, etc. Ortiz's numbers speak for themselves, he doesn't need to start crying about Jeter when I personally think that Jeter is at most the #2 - #3 guy this year. This makes him look like an ignorant classless individual, and it goes exaclty against his cultivated "Big Papi" image. You think his teammates like to hear that they suck or that they aren't helping the team win unless they hitting 40-100? How is that any different that Bonds having his own lounge in the locker room? I know Ortiz doesn't do that, but his commenbts clearly point out that he should at the very least have that option.

 

Maybe Damon was more important than the Red Sox FO thought, at the very least he acted as a sort fo buffer for the media, and I'm sure he woulda poked some fun at Ortiz to klep him form getting to the point where he's making these kind of comments that quite frnakly I was very surprised to hear from. All you hear on ESPN is how everyone in the league loves him and that's why he doesn't get dusted. These kinds of comments reveal a mindset that's not deserving of such accolades.

[guapo34]

Any award George King gets to vote for, which i think is all of them but I know includes the MVP, is tainted in my opinion.

[a700hitter]

I never brought Jeter into the debate nor said he's a better candidate than Ortiz' date=' Dye, etc. Ortiz's numbers speak for themselves, he doesn't need to start crying about Jeter when I personally think that Jeter is at most the #2 - #3 guy this year.[/quote']I was directing my remarks to Empire whose post I quoted. He has Jeter finishing 2nd and Ortiz finishing 4th.

This makes him look like an ignorant classless individual' date=' and it goes exaclty against his cultivated "Big Papi" image.[/quote']Please don't talk to me about classless. Do you remember "A Magical Night in Pinstripes" where ARod shamelessly promoted signed baseballs commemorating his May 3-Homer game against the Angels at a time when the Yankees were in last place. He sold something like 100 or more balls for $300/each. Real classy! But whoever said that baseball players are supposed to be classy. Plenty of the greats of the game were classless, crude or worse. Ruth was a crude, rude drunk. What about Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle who was one of the nastier drunks you could meet during his playing days. The same goes for Whitey Ford. Clemens has suffered his entire career from foot in mouth disease, and Wade Boggs engaged in his share of classless selfish behavior. So, who cares about Papi's remarks. He knows he is being setup to be ripped off again this year, so he said something about it. Who cares. Is he supposed to thank his teammates if he wins the award. That would be a bit ridiculous and disingenuous, because they suck. They should be accountable for sucking.

[Moose]

Dye should win MVp

 

Your avatar looks like the last s*** Joe Morgan took.

[empirestrikesback26]

Ortiz' stats are far and away better than Jeter, so your own justification for "Texas ARod's" MVP should eliminate Jeter from contention. Ortiz is first in Homers, RBI, and total bases. He's 2nd in Runs, third in Slugging %, and fourth in OPS. Texas ARod was first in Homers, Runs, and slugging; 2nd in RBI and Total Bases; 3rd in OPS. I don't see how ARod's season was so much more dominant. Also, as far as value as in "Most Valuable", the Rangers could have finished last without ARod, so he apparently had no value to that team. There is no way the Red Sox finish second and contend until mid August without Papi. That is value. Value to a team doesn't necessarily mean first place, but how can there be any value to a team that finishes last?

 

The final word on Ortiz' value to his team is the reaction of the opposing fans when he comes to the plate in a big spot. You all know just how much you s*** yourselves in those spots. He scares you more than anyother hitter. There's no way that you have that feeling when Dye or Morneau come to bat. That's just laughable.

 

He's so valuble that he can take his team all the way to second place. Sorry, the team is not competitive and his stats aren't good enough for a DH to win it. That's that.

[riverside sluggers]

bump

 

just yet another thread started by a yankee fan, knowing well that it will start up another useless red sox vs yankee fans back n forth debacle.

 

Ortiz is just frustrated because his team isnt playing the way it should, the writers shunning him last year, and will be the same this year because he's just a DH utility man & the Sox are

 

EB26, "his stats arent good enough to win MVP as a DH" Ok lets take out the fact that he's a Re Sox, then tell us what you really think. Pray tell what stats you expect a Red Sox DH to have to make MVP?

 

He's becoming the best DH in the history of the game. Jeez youre acting like Ortiz is just an average joe 40 Hr guy. What a schmuck of a player, huh?

[rician blast]

News to Ortez: It is not who hits the most homers and has the most RBI's' date=' [b']it is who helps the team the most[/b].

 

A few thoughts on this issue:

 

(1) If the above truly is the criteria for an MVP....then explain how ARod won it last year.

If this statement were true, why didn't Mariano win about 5 MVP's already?

 

ARod won last year based on his numbers, not his value to the team relative to other players.

 

(2) I don't like what Ortiz said, I'd prefer Sox players be humble and take the high road, but I think there was a lot of truth to his statements.

 

(3) In the case of Jeter, he is having a terrific season, but IS helped by that line-up. Tejada, another AL SS, is at .330 vs. Jeter's .346, has almost as many runs, has struck out less, has more HRs....despite being in a s***** lineup. So extend Ortiz's thought regarding the impact of a lineup to Tejada..i.e. stick him in the Yankees line-up and imagine what his numbers would be?

 

(4) One thing I think Ortiz has failed to consider is that he is blessed to have Manny hit behind him...reverse the 3 and 4 spots in the order and I bet Manny is at 40 HRs, .330 and 110-120 RBIs and is an MVP candidate.

[Mr Crunchy]

johnny damon is slugging higher than jetsey

really

why are sox fans arguing with the nitwits who'd have ortiz 4th

christ almighty

the yankee fans with any f***ing sense die 100000 deaths every time ortiz comes up when it matters

us sox fans embrace arod and jetsey in the later innings

this is what MVP means

yanks fans s*** green when they see ortiz

 

sox fans

dont amuse these fukin twats with a response that dont include ""yo mama""

[He Hate Me]

For everyone who brough Jeter into the debate please refer to my original opening post where I BOLDED my agreement with Ortiz's comments. The point of this thread was to point out Ortiz's behavior and its effect on voters. I merely wanted to point out that his self-campaigning last year didn't work for him and that I don't think it'll work for him this year either. Any arguments you make for Ortiz I mostly already agreed with, so stop regurgitatng his wonderful stats and focus on the fact that there are certain ways to act in life, and these statements made by Ortiz is not one of them IMO. Have there been other classless sports figures? Of course, and you can bet I would talk about them also if they were playing today, but the ones you mentioned aren't except for ARod (whom I have a severe disregard for due to what I feel is his phony persona and have made numerous posts commenting on such).

 

If you're going to talk about being a leader (which Ortiz has done numerous times in the past), you don't make comments like try seeing how well he does batting in my lineup, or his 40 HR 100 RBI remark. Leaders don't make comments like that. Can you imagine Varitek making a comment like "yeah Posada's doing better against base stealers than me this year, but let's see how he does with the picthes on my staff who don't know how to hold a runner close to first"? No he would never say anything like that, and until recently, I never Ortiz to make those kind of comments either.