Ballwashers Have It Tough

[a700hitter]

You've officially made me hate this board. Congrats.

You are welcome, but I haven't made you do or feel anything. Your emotions are your own problem and you are the only one in control of them. You shouldn't blame others for what you feel. You can keep trying to irritate me, but it will not work. I don't get irritated by foolishness. I will continue to call you on your foolishness until you stop it or just grow up.

[Mr Crunchy]

jesus .700

sounds like you need a week in sensitivity training...LOL

 

some people on board dont like to hear that the sox front office tanked on us

they dont like different opinions as they prefer the kevin bacon approach

""all is well all is well""

as the titantic approaches the ice berg and the yankees bend us over the kitchen sink

that was a 5 game sweep,you can open your eyes now,its over

 

i didnt want them to sign petey or damon for that matter but i also didnt expect david pauley and the like to be the key components in this seasons pennant run

[Dana Kiecker]

Lets state the obvious here Ladies..

 

 

If hey had signed Vlad when he was a free agent this whole discussion would be a moot point.

 

Thats the biggest FO screwup of the regime.

 

If they get Vlad they dont waste $$ on Dirty Hat, they dont move Arroyo because there is no need for someone to hit for Dirty Hat.. on and on it goes...

 

And by the way that outfield /lineup would have won 3 WS in a row...

 

If you think there has/was a worse move? Id love to hear it.

[Sara]

An interesting read from Bill Simmons (ESPN Page 2) mailbag:

 

Q: Fresh off the most humiliating/frustrating/inconceivable five-game series of my life … where would you say that "Boston Massacre 2: The Empire Strikes the Death Blow" ranks in your all-time, gut-wrenching, makes-you-want-to-heave sports weekends?

--Steve D., Springfield, Mass.

 

SG: Honestly? I was 20 times more upset after the Pats-Broncos game last January. That Pats team had a chance to win the Super Bowl and blew it because of dumb turnovers and terrible officiating. This 2006 Red Sox team got swept by the Yanks because the front office did a crummie job for two straight years and we're finally starting to see the full repercussions. They just aren't very good. Take away interleague play (16-2) and the Orioles (11-1) and they're 11 games under .500 (42-53) against everyone else. They have three reliable hitters in the clutch (Manny, Papi, Youk), one reliable starter (Schilling) and one reliable reliever (Papelbon). That's it. These are the facts. They're a borderline playoff team at best. At least everyone realizes it now.

 

The only negative repercussion: For the first time, annoying Yankee fans are back out in full force. It's almost like when you buy a fly zapper for your backyard (with the 2004 ALCS being the fly zapper) that wipes out every mosquito in your neighborhood, and life is great, and you can sit in the backyard and hang out whenever you want ... and then the fly zapper breaks (the five-game sweep), and suddenly those mosquitoes are swarming around again. I received more taunting e-mails from Yankee fans/friends/readers over the past 96 hours than I received in the previous 22 months combined. They're buzzing around. They're everywhere. And unfortunately, this current front office replaced the reliable 2004 fly zapper with a newer model that shorts out half the time. Bad times all around.

 

Here's what really bothers me: Not only are the Yankees good, not only are they peaking at the perfect time, but their fans know it. So the Yankee fans are getting that old swagger back. Too bad. I just wish the Red Sox could spend as much money as them -- if we only had a billionaire owner, our own TV station, tons of merchandising money, tons of corporate sponsors and a team that sells out every home game. Hey, wait a second. ...

[RedSoxRooter]

jesus .700

sounds like you need a week in sensitivity training...LOL

 

some people on board dont like to hear that the sox front office tanked on us

they dont like different opinions as they prefer the kevin bacon approach

""all is well all is well""

as the titantic approaches the ice berg and the yankees bend us over the kitchen sink

that was a 5 game sweep,you can open your eyes now,its over

 

i didnt want them to sign petey or damon for that matter but i also didnt expect david pauley and the like to be the key components in this seasons pennant run

 

Ok, ok. I get it now. The front office is garbage. They have done nothing for the fans in New England. I'm rather surprised nobody has brought this up yet (probably because it's not talked about on WEEI), but the biggest mistake this year was sending out Josh Bard to bring back Doug Mirabelli.

 

I mean, think about it. First the FO upsets the clubhouse AND Wake by sending Wake's personal catcher off to the Padres for a scrub like Loretta - a guy the FO should have known would be on the bench, hurt on August 25th.

 

Then once they find out Bard can't catch the knuckler, the f'n FO sends Bard to the Pads to bring back Mirabelli - A GUY THEY SHOULDA NEVER GOTTEN RID OF IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! Especially not for an All-Star second baseman!!!@1

 

But it gets worse. Bard winds up batting like .330 and Mirabelli has struggled. And to top it all off the damn FO should have known that Wakefield was going to be on the DL at this point in the season. I mean, knuckleballers break their ribs ALL THE TIME. It's was just a matter of when. SO BRINGING BACK MIRABELLI WAS COMPLETELY POINTLESS TO BEGIN WITH!!!! UGHHHH!!!!

 

So while Wake sits there on the bench, making his 4 Million - (FOUR f***ING MILLION!!!!!!), Bard is tearing up the NL West!!!!! It's unacceptable!!! Fire Theo! Fire them all! We should have never given up on Bard. If we had Josh Bard today, and I was the GM, we'd be 17 games ahead of the Yankees!!!!!!!!2@1!

 

You say, well, what about all the bad starting pitching 2-5? Well, ballwashers, Bard would have fixed that. Josh Bard is that good of a catcher!

 

Anyone who thinks this post is stupid is a pink hat ballwasher! (Ordway says that on eei all the time , and i juss wub the Big Show!).

 

All of this of course wouldn't be so bad, but the Sox haven't won the World Series in 22 months. I mean 22 MONTHS!!!!!!!!! They deserve to treat me better! Those bastards!

 

If I could just randomly insert RETURNS on my keyboard, you'd all understand just how stupid you are! Argh!

[a700hitter]

With all the bad move that the FO has made, this move doesn't make the list. Getting Mirabelli back was a necessity as long as Wakefield is with the team. What is unnecessary is to have a lifetime contract with a 40 year old knuckleballer. That's a stupid move.

[jsinger121]

With all the bad move that the FO has made, this move doesn't make the list. Getting Mirabelli back was a necessity as long as Wakefield is with the team. What is unnecessary is to have a lifetime contract with a 40 year old knuckleballer. That's a stupid move.

 

Its not a lifetime contract. Its a series of 1 year deals the sox can continue to pick up. They can dump wakefield anytime they want to. I love wakefield for what he has done for the sox but pretty much him on the roster is like wasting 2 spots cause you have to carry mirabelli who is bad.

[a700hitter]

Its not a lifetime contract. Its a series of 1 year deals the sox can continue to pick up. They can dump wakefield anytime they want to. I love wakefield for what he has done for the sox but pretty much him on the roster is like wasting 2 spots cause you have to carry mirabelli who is bad.

I am familiar with the renewal feature, but IMO the Sox will continue to renew the contract as long as Wakefield can drag himself to the mound and pitch.500 ball, because $4 million for a starters slot is a bargain by today's standards.

[jsinger121]

I am familiar with the renewal feature, but IMO the Sox will continue to renew the contract as long as Wakefield can drag himself to the mound and pitch.500 ball, because $4 million for a starters slot is a bargain by today's standards.

 

If he can give the team quality innings at 4 million why not bring him back. What they need is someone who can catch a knuckleball who can also hit a bit more than mirabelli.

[a700hitter]

If he can give the team quality innings at 4 million why not bring him back. What they need is someone who can catch a knuckleball who can also hit a bit more than mirabelli.

I don't mind a .500 pitcher in the 5th slot, but not in the 3rd slot.

[Mr Crunchy]

wakefield pitches 200innings a year of 4.5 era ball

thats huge in 2006

we miss him and its taking its toll on the rest of the staff

now

if the sox are moving mirabelli?

then they shouldve moved wakefield

no one else has been able to catch him consistantly and tek is ancient and beat up enuff and struggled catching wake for years on end now..

christ

flaherty retired rather than chase the knuckler

sure

bard wasnt given a chance but

(1) he wasnt gonna beat tek out

(2)he was going to catch 20% of our games,the games wake pitched

and if he couldnt do that then he was of no help to us unless of course we moved wakefield

 

its the end of august

ive said all that needs to be said about the front office and its miserable efforts this summer

come 10/28

they'll start on their never ending to quest to move manny by telling us all how he wants out of here and how his wife is really michelle damons sister and that they belong in ny together

this year

with his contract near over

they may get it done and we can all celebrate losing the greatest right handed hitter ive ever seen and enjoy watching david murphy in left field till the tumbleweeds again blow thru yawkee way

[RedSoxRooter]

I think it was Tom Verducci on EEI who speculated that the Sox will go after Andrew Jones in the offseason. Then send Manny to the Angels and ship Coco out as well.

[riverside sluggers]

wakefield pitches 200innings a year of 4.5 era ball

thats huge in 2006

we miss him and its taking its toll on the rest of the staff

now

if the sox are moving mirabelli?

then they shouldve moved wakefield

no one else has been able to catch him consistantly and tek is ancient and beat up enuff and struggled catching wake for years on end now..

christ

flaherty retired rather than chase the knuckler

sure

bard wasnt given a chance but

(1) he wasnt gonna beat tek out

(2)he was going to catch 20% of our games,the games wake pitched

and if he couldnt do that then he was of no help to us unless of course we moved wakefield

 

The Sox wont move Wakefield. I can guarantee that. Even if they did, lets talk about something called 10/5 rights.. He loves the team, Boston, and he has raised his family here in the hub.

 

if the sox are moving mirabelli?

then they shouldve moved wakefield

 

They traded Belli because they had the chance to get Loretta, any team would do that.

[Mr Crunchy]

belli for loretta was a good deal

but you and the front office forgot that it would make wakefield and his new catchers life miserable and in essence ineffective and wakes #s without mirabelli speak for themselves.

bard,who is a decent catcher,broke records for past balls in a game

hes a tuff kid being able to bounce back from that nightmare

wake had a great era

but couldnt win a game because of pastballs and the ensuing track meet of people running on him

they had no plan for catching wakefield when they traded douggie

as usual they got caught with their pants down

[ORS]

belli for loretta was a good deal

but you and the front office forgot that it would make wakefield and his new catchers life miserable and in essence ineffective and wakes #s without mirabelli speak for themselves.

bard,who is a decent catcher,broke records for past balls in a game

hes a tuff kid being able to bounce back from that nightmare

wake had a great era

but couldnt win a game because of pastballs and the ensuing track meet of people running on him

they had no plan for catching wakefield when they traded douggie

as usual they got caught with their pants down

That's 20/20 hindsight.

 

Bard's a big league ball player. I'm sure the plan was that, given time, he'd adjust to catching the knuckler. What screwed up the plan was when he had a couple of weeks of down time in ST nursing an injury, meaning his acclimation period occured in meaningful games. Sorry, but I can't fault the FO for not predicting injuries.

[Mr Crunchy]

im not arguing about bards ability

im arguing that the front office had nobody to catch wake after flash retired

so they had 2 guys,an untested rookie and a 40 year old hasbeen in line to handle the knuckleball and neither panned out

 

we were discussing this ad nauseum the other nite

i got a friend that says veritek shouldve stepped up and demanded to catch wakefield

as he was the captain and saw the rookie obviously struggling to the point of breaking records for past balls

i was of the opinion that it was theo or titos job and not teks to decide who catches wake

 

in any case

we had a 200+inning knuckler who was turned over to a hasbeen and a never was to start the season and it was a disaster,this isnt up for debate.

anyone who saw wake pitch to the best catcher in the american league(tek) with great difficutly and didnt see a rookie or a hasbeen having troubles handling him shouldnt be in baseball and it has nothing to do with hindsite

[riverside sluggers]

I wouldnt actually say that Josh Bard was an untestesd rookie when he joined the Sox

 

4 seasons (156 games) with Cleveland

[Mr Crunchy]

point taken

however he had as much experience as i did catching the knuckleball

the kid we traded to cleveland has seen a lot of playing time this season as well

hey

its been a disappointing season all around

[ARod2212]

That's 20/20 hindsight.

 

Bard's a big league ball player. I'm sure the plan was that, given time, he'd adjust to catching the knuckler. What screwed up the plan was when he had a couple of weeks of down time in ST nursing an injury, meaning his acclimation period occured in meaningful games. Sorry, but I can't fault the FO for not predicting injuries.

Varitek's a big league ball player too, he couldn't figure out how to catch the knuckleball in ST while Bard was down?

 

I think the biggest problem has been Josh Beckett. I think everyone figured on a 3.50 ERA guy with tons of innings and tons of strikeouts. Not only has he been absolute garbage, but the guys you gave up are producing down in Florida and have them closer to the playoffs than Boston is.

 

I was talking about this before the season started, that you guys didn't know whether or not you were rebuilding or going for it, so you traded some prospects, got some prospects and got some veterans. The mish-mash didn't work.

 

If you wanted to rebuild, I think Hanley Ramirez and Andy Marte would have looked very good next to each other. The FO will be faced with a similar problem this offseason. Are they going to try and go for it, or do they go for the rebuild. And if they do go to rebuild, I think Manny Ramirez' name should be made available, with the Red Sox willing to eat salary. They can get some very, very good young players for Manny if that prohibitive price tag is dropped. Schilling would probably draw less interest due to injury concerns (4.70 ERA, .305 BAA post ASB ), but he should be floated out there too. I would honestly say it is in their best interest to try and do a total rebuild, but I understand the fallout in New England would be huge if they dealt Manny or Schilling. Which may doom them to another "patch it together in the offseason," which didn't work out too well this season. 9th best record vs. the American League doesn't really get it done.

[Jon_Papelboner]

yeah, the indecisive nature of the FO this season is what hurt the sox. You either go one way or the other.

[riverside sluggers]

Varitek's a big league ball player too, he couldn't figure out how to catch the knuckleball in ST while Bard was down?

 

I think the biggest problem has been Josh Beckett. I think everyone figured on a 3.50 ERA guy with tons of innings and tons of strikeouts. Not only has he been absolute garbage, but the guys you gave up are producing down in Florida and have them closer to the playoffs than Boston is.

 

I was talking about this before the season started, that you guys didn't know whether or not you were rebuilding or going for it, so you traded some prospects, got some prospects and got some veterans. The mish-mash didn't work.

 

If you wanted to rebuild, I think Hanley Ramirez and Andy Marte would have looked very good next to each other. The FO will be faced with a similar problem this offseason. Are they going to try and go for it, or do they go for the rebuild. And if they do go to rebuild, I think Manny Ramirez' name should be made available, with the Red Sox willing to eat salary. They can get some very, very good young players for Manny if that prohibitive price tag is dropped. Schilling would probably draw less interest due to injury concerns (4.70 ERA, .305 BAA post ASB ), but he should be floated out there too. I would honestly say it is in their best interest to try and do a total rebuild, but I understand the fallout in New England would be huge if they dealt Manny or Schilling. Which may doom them to another "patch it together in the offseason," which didn't work out too well this season. 9th best record vs. the American League doesn't really get it done.

 

 

--Varitek was out for majority of spring training, the World Baseball Classic

--Schilling will be here in 2007, thats bottom of the barrel for the Sox front office to think about. He's still the ace and has allowed 3 runs or less in 3 out of his last 5 starts including the Yankees.

--2 straight rebuilding offseasons? Thats music to Yankee fans' ears

[ARod2212]

--Varitek was out for majority of spring training, the World Baseball Classic

--Schilling will be here in 2007, thats bottom of the barrel for the Sox front office to think about. He's still the ace and has allowed 3 runs or less in 3 out of his last 5 starts including the Yankees.

--2 straight rebuilding offseasons? Thats music to Yankee fans' ears

Varitek has also been on Wakefield's team for the better part of a decade, and he was still unable to grasp the Knuckleball? Shouldn't the FO have known this before dumping Mirabelli?

 

Holding on to declining players for sentimental purposes is what it (keeping Schilling) seems like, and it is a bad strategy. The Rangers had Brian Leetch, a still productive offensive defenseman who is bound for the HOF and dealt him to Toronto for draft picks, which have turned into a top rated 19 year old prospect, and a center who was the leading scorer in the NYR minor league system. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet and make the move, it works out in the long run.

 

And I'm actually glad you guys aren't rebuilding, I'm all for another season like this one. Little progress being made with young players and finishing the year well out of range. Basically, you are wasting another season in the primes of Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz. Either try to put together a legit contender around those guys, or start over.

[riverside sluggers]

And I'm actually glad you guys aren't rebuilding, I'm all for another season like this one. Little progress being made with young players and finishing the year well out of range. Basically, you are wasting another season in the primes of Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz. Either try to put together a legit contender around those guys, or start over.

 

Well as far as the offense goes- Varitek, Youkilis, Ortiz, Pedroia, Cora, Manny, Wily Mo & Hinske are all but set to still be on team in 2007

 

Shortstop is a question because Sox are said to be intent on getting Julio Lugo this offseason

 

Less than 50% chance Coco is still here, a new player could be manning center field.

 

Rehasing my statement, there will be an overhaul in the pitching staff (specifically bullpen). Say goodbye to Clement, Wells, Timlin, Foulke

 

Yes Sox are holding onto Schilling because he's right now such the declining player for us. Trying to stray from the truth that he is still a solid pitcher for the Sox? Its all about drive, The f*** they are just holding him onto sentimental purposes. Schil will be intent on making his last season in the bigs a good one. Its funny how Yankee fans cant admit he's actually having a good season (but wait haha look at his stats since July) even though 3 out of his last 5 starts he has allowed 3 runs or less including your own team.

 

EDIT: I find it much more appeasing for 2007 to have a 40 year old Schilling than an even more decling pitcher in 44 year old RJ

[Mr Crunchy]

theyre trying to move manny as i type this

as far as schilling goes,

he is their best pitcher and although he isnt on the upside of his career

he has some pretty good #s considering the injury from 04-05 and the big games he pitches in

its tuff keeping an era under 4 when 8 starts or 25% of your games are in the al east

 

this is why i felt they shouldve shot the sherbert and gone for it this season

schill only has a couple yrs left tops,maybe only 1 here in boston

manny will be moved and tek isnt getting any younger

loretta and agon were our best double play comb since remy and the rooster

next year pedroia and ?? will have their hands full trying to duplicate what our middle did this season

 

i think the front office wants to win and i think they also want a limited payroll

you can have both if youre very very lucky

however

luck and this team dont go hand in hand

 

faaaaaaaaaaak

this was the year to get it done but thank god i can still hang my hat on 04

[Mr Crunchy]

as far as the yanks go??

please

theyre more f***ed up than we are as far as their pitching goes

theyre 0 for the century in world series and will be bounced in the 1st round again this year

wang is good

mussina is good

the other starters??

ha

[ARod2212]

Well as far as the offense goes- Varitek, Youkilis, Ortiz, Pedroia, Cora, Manny, Wily Mo & Hinske are all but set to still be on team in 2007

 

Shortstop is a question because Sox are said to be intent on getting Julio Lugo this offseason

 

Less than 50% chance Coco is still here, a new player could be manning center field.

 

Rehasing my statement, there will be an overhaul in the pitching staff (specifically bullpen). Say goodbye to Clement, Wells, Timlin, Foulke

 

Yes Sox are holding onto Schilling because he's right now such the declining player for us. Trying to stray from the truth that he is still a solid pitcher for the Sox? Its all about drive, The f*** they are just holding him onto sentimental purposes. Schil will be intent on making his last season in the bigs a good one. Its funny how Yankee fans cant admit he's actually having a good season (but wait haha look at his stats since July) even though 3 out of his last 5 starts he has allowed 3 runs or less including your own team.

 

EDIT: I find it much more appeasing for 2007 to have a 40 year old Schilling than an even more decling pitcher in 44 year old RJ

 

I wanted to not repsond, since I had 1337 posts, but I have to.

 

de‧cline  a gradual deterioration of the physical powers

 

 

I'm not saying he isn't a decent pitcher. I'm saying he's getting worse (declining) and the sooner the Red Sox try to trade him the better off they'll be in the future. Unless you seriously think the Red Sox will make a run at the World Series before he retires, you absoultely should consider moving him.

 

Schilling is better than Johnson? LOLOL NO WAI! Congratulations, you won an argument against nobody. Of course you'd rather have Schilling, he's a better pitcher. But if you guys are going to legitimately rebuild, you trade him away and get something good back.

 

And ok, bye Wells, Timlin, Clement and Foulke. Hello who, Zito? I just don't see what one player available can put them over the top in an instant. All the more reason to try and deal your older players with value and get some good young players back who can contribute for 15 years.

[He Hate Me]

as far as the yanks go??

please

theyre more f***ed up than we are as far as their pitching goes

 

We outscored you 49-25 or somthing like that and you make a statement like this?

[ORS]

Varitek's a big league ball player too, he couldn't figure out how to catch the knuckleball in ST while Bard was down?

I would bet he could have, but that wasn't the plan, so Huckaby caught him more than anyone in ST. I was a proponent of having Varitek catch him then and during the season so that they didn't need to take his bat out of the lineup if they made the postseason. So, in some sense, I do think the plan was flawed. I just don't think the Bard idea was purely a bad idea because the ST injury played a role in sending the plan awry.

[RedSoxRooter]

We outscored you 49-25 or somthing like that and you make a statement like this?

 

Get your facts straight! It was 49-26.

[riverside sluggers]

My way of thinking for the pitching staff is that they need to keep Papelbon in the closer's role, he's born into that role and besides theres no big closers out on the free agent market this season. Id like to see a Matsuzaka or Jason Schmidt be acquired to help boost the rotation to back up Schilling & hopefully a rebounding Beckett.

 

For relief, top of my list is the Blue Jay Justin Speier. Also send Theo a book called "How to find good relief pitching for Dummies"