August 6th @ Tampa Bay

[BoSox21]

They should be playing to win every year, and I give them no excuses when they don't

 

whoa, let's still look at the facts. we still have the 4th best record in the majors. this team is still playing to win and this team still has the tools to win

[redsoxrules]

well first of all pedro's replacement was clement who makes 4 mill less , id would have rather paid pedro 14 than clement 10 any time

[MC Hammer]

I undrstand the KC's of the world. But the sox are sold out every night, they have fans all across the world, let alone the US and their pockets are overflowing. Their popularity has tripled since the curse ended. If they lapse back into medicority, they will lose that income. I would think from a business standpoint, it is better to spend an extra 50 to make an extra 50 and increase popularity than to stand pat.

It doesn't matter, It's not you're money, so you have no room to say what they should spend, or should've spent. They will spend what they want because it's their money. I hope your future wife treats you like you and 700 are treating the Sox FO.

 

"Come on honey I want the bigger diamond"

"I really don't want to spend that much"

"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!"

[riverside sluggers]

Torre in his post game interview said there is no team he worries about closing in on them

[MC Hammer]

well first of all pedro's replacement was clement who makes 4 mill less , id would have rather paid pedro 14 than clement 10 any time

Remember all the money you put back on is money that the Sox FO would take off somewhere else. Resigning Pedro would mean that you'd have to take Hansen away, and maybe the Sox FO decides not to eat Lowell's money and we don't get Beckett either. I'll take what we got.

[TheKilo]

Are we going for the playoffs or are we retooling? man-up and tell me. Does the FO know if it is playing to win or not? You can't have it both ways, not with this team that has more FO created holes than swiss cheese. I am also opposed to this notion of retooling with a $120-130 million payroll and the vast financial resource of the Red Sox.

 

But, in a way, didn't you just answer your own question? Can't a team with as many resources as the Red Sox retool but at the same time use the resources in place to contend for the playoffs?

 

They should be playing to win every year, and I give them no excuses when they don't. You want to be a FO toady. That's fine. I'll continue to criticize the management, but I will not throw the winners and stars on the team under the bus as so many of you toadies are ready to do and replace them with unproven minor leaguers as part of a youth movement. Young teams lose. Veteran teams with a few young players win.

 

Next year's Red Sox team will still have plenty of veterans. Varitek, Lowell, Crisp, Youkilis, Ramirez, Ortiz, Schilling, etc. etc. Hopefully they resign Gonzalez.

 

The position players we're arguing to replace are Trot Nixon and Mark Loretta/Alex Cora.

 

Nixon will be replaced because he's on the decline. Look at the stats. His power numbers for a corner outfielder suck. He's decent in RF, but he's an injury risk and is not very fast. Pena has more upside, and I think can become a superstar once he gets regular PT.

 

The talk of Loretta being replaced is not for what he hasn't done, but for what Pedroia HAS done. The kid can absolutely rake, and has succeded at every level of ball he's played in. I wouldn't be opposed to signing Loretta to a one year deal to serve as a mentor and platoon with Pedroia, but I don't think Loretta will agree to a one year deal as it'd be his last big shot at a nice FA contract.

[riverside sluggers]

whoa, let's still look at the facts. we still have the 4th best record in the majors. this team is still playing to win and this team still has the tools to win

 

I hope something or someone lights a fire under their asses. 12-12 since the All-Star break. KC & Baltimore, both teams are supposed to beatable. At least the Sox should take 4 out of those 6 games before they head out on really a brutal schedule

[MC Hammer]

Teams pay far less thanthe Red Sox and put out better teams, eg. the Cardinals. The Mets have been turned around by Minaya, and their payroll is 19 million less.

When's the last time the Mets or Cards won a World Series?

 

So clearly they didn't put together better teams, and how could you say the Cards were better when we sent them home in 4 games?

[jacksonianmarch]

So you are advocatig a trust in the organization while you watch all of the sox champions go off to other teams? Organization trust is built by the loyalty to the fans, winning, and keeping the core of your team together. The sox have upped their ticket prices, they have recking balled a champonship team and tore the core to the ground. Some fan will be upset. Its just a fact of lief.

[BoSox21]

no using NL teams as examples, the NL might as well be AAAA ball

 

besides, the Cards choke every year and the Mets are a team we swept along with the rest of the teams they play all year

[MC Hammer]

Clearly you guys don't understand why baseball has a minor league system. And clearly you don't understand why Theo wanted to build ours. I'm gonna try to make this as clear as possible.

 

Theo sees the Yankees as an old team. He also sees them as our biggest competition in the division. So he had a decision to make ... bring Pedro and Damon back and try to beat the Yankees for 2 or 3 years while those guys are still peaking ... then have to try and unload them, and rebuild. OR let them walk away ... get some high draft picks, and get guys that can help you in a few years, and make the farm system that much stronger. Now, when the Yankees hit that point where there old guys are too old ... we are ready to take over the division with all the guys from that great farm system, and are able to win this division for a decade.

 

Remember the Yankees started their dynasty in the minor leagues, not by resigning aging players. They haven't won many World Series since they went to that plan.

[YanksHater213]

fek we blew this s***. im never making a game thread again.

[MC Hammer]

So you are advocatig a trust in the organization while you watch all of the sox champions go off to other teams? Organization trust is built by the loyalty to the fans, winning, and keeping the core of your team together. The sox have upped their ticket prices, they have recking balled a champonship team and tore the core to the ground. Some fan will be upset. Its just a fact of lief.

I trust a FO that brought us our only championship in 86 years, yes, yes I do.

[jacksonianmarch]

Clearly you guys don't understand why baseball has a minor league system. And clearly you don't understand why Theo wanted to build ours. I'm gonna try to make this as clear as possible.

 

Theo sees the Yankees as an old team. He also sees them as our biggest competition in the division. So he had a decision to make ... bring Pedro and Damon back and try to beat the Yankees for 2 or 3 years while those guys are still peaking ... then have to try and unload them, and rebuild. OR let them walk away ... get some high draft picks, and get guys that can help you in a few years, and make the farm system that much stronger. Now, when the Yankees hit that point where there old guys are too old ... we are ready to take over the division with all the guys from that great farm system, and are able to win this division for a decade.

 

Remember the Yankees started their dynasty in the minor leagues, not by resigning aging players. They haven't won many World Series since they went to that plan.

 

I am still trying to figur out where the yankkes are an old team vs the sox. The Yankees have a 26 yr old pitcher with 13 wins and a sub 4era right now. The sox have one very young kid in Lester who is 5-1 right now and a guy who loves his run rupport in beck who has 13 wins and a 5era. The Yankees also have the big ticket AAA pitcher in Hughes waiting in the wings. As for bullpen, the sox have Paplbon, Hansen, and MDC, the yankees have Proctor, Farnsworth, and the young guys in the minors in Melancon and Cox who will be up within 2 years. In the lineup, the sox have the age advantage with Crisp, Youk and Pena being in their mid 20s, compared to Cano and Melky, but it isnt like the sox best players are young and it isnt like the yankees players are terribly old (most in the 30-32 range). The sox are old as well, and like it or not, they are a right now team.

[jsinger121]

Teams pay far less thanthe Red Sox and put out better teams, eg. the Cardinals. The Mets have been turned around by Minaya, and their payroll is 19 million less.

 

Omar turned around the Mets by overpaying for guys and cleaning out his farm system to do so. And guys like Wright, Reyes, and Milledge were drafted or signed under a previous GM so he can't take all the credit in the world.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I am still trying to figur out where the yankkes are an old team vs the sox. The Yankees have a 26 yr old pitcher with 13 wins and a sub 4era right now. The sox have one very young kid in Lester who is 5-1 right now and a guy who loves his run rupport in beck who has 13 wins and a 5era. The Yankees also have the big ticket AAA pitcher in Hughes waiting in the wings. As for bullpen, the sox have Paplbon, Hansen, and MDC, the yankees have Proctor, Farnsworth, and the young guys in the minors in Melancon and Cox who will be up within 2 years. In the lineup, the sox have the age advantage with Crisp, Youk and Pena being in their mid 20s, compared to Cano and Melky, but it isnt like the sox best players are young and it isnt like the yankees players are terribly old (most in the 30-32 range). The sox are old as well, and like it or not, they are a right now team.

Smart man right here. I think the old thing comes from guys like RJ and Mussina but when you think about it the Red Sox are also carrying Schilling and Wakefield. Mussina is also a FA at the end of the year so they could get younger if they want.

 

EDIT: Rivera also. When he retires the Yankees will be in scramble mode for a closer.

[noonanberg]

the sox have lost 9 of 13 to Tampa. that's f**kin awful. that number at highest should be six. then instead of being behind the yankees, we'd be ahead of them. if they dont sweep KC and take 2 from Baltimore then they're in serious trouble.

[BoSox21]

So you are advocatig a trust in the organization while you watch all of the sox champions go off to other teams? Organization trust is built by the loyalty to the fans, winning, and keeping the core of your team together. The sox have upped their ticket prices, they have recking balled a champonship team and tore the core to the ground. Some fan will be upset. Its just a fact of lief.

 

the organization has one responsibility, to win. there has only been one other champion since the Sox have won. most of the core of the championship team was around last year and we barely snuck into the playoffs and got annihilated in the first round. great organizations are ones that realize that to stay competitive, there has to be a constant evolution with the talent. it means saying goodbye to proven, aging players and welcoming in younger talent with all the ability in the world looking for a chance to prove themselves.

[redsoxrules]

the sox have lost 9 of 13 to Tampa. that's f**kin awful. that number at highest should be six. then instead of being behind the yankees, we'd be ahead of them. if they dont sweep KC and take 2 from Baltimore then they're in serious trouble.

 

WTF are you talking about they are 9-8 against tampa

[CrespoBlows]

Smart man right here. I think the old thing comes from guys like RJ and Mussina but when you think about it the Red Sox are also carrying Shilling and Wakefield. Mussina is also a FA at the end of the year so they could get younger if they want.

 

Bah. He cannot dismiss the fact that Papelbon does not age. Every time he allows a HR, he sheds ten years.

 

Anyway, if you look closer at the rosters, the Red Sox have more impact younger players. I mean, any team can say they're getting younger. They can put a pile of s*** in CF (Crosby), and go "YOUTH MOVEMENT 4 REAL!!"

 

Right now, it looks like the Yankees have: Wang, Hughes, Cano, and maybe Cox and Cabrera as their young talent. The Red Sox on the other hand have: Lester, Papelbon, Beckett, Delcarmen, Hansen, Pena, Crisp, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Murphy. The Red Sox aren't exactly built for now. They can win now, but they can also win in '07 and '08. I'd say the Red Sox have the clear advantedge in the youth department.

 

Last, I wouldn't categorize Proctor, and Farnsworth as "young." Both are 30 years old. Melancon, hasn't thrown one pitch in professional baseball, so I'd wait a bit until you start saying he's going to be up in two years.

[riverside sluggers]

EDIT: Rivera also. Hes he retires the Yankees will be in scramble mode for a closer.

 

A Yankee team without Rivera someday will just seem odd

[yeszir]

A Yankee team without Rivera someday will just seem odd

It's ok, they'll just get Huston Street and BJ Ryan.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Bah. He cannot dismiss the fact that Papelbon does not age. Every time he allows a HR, he sheds ten years.

 

Anyway, if you look closer at the rosters, the Red Sox have more impact younger players. I mean, any team can say they're getting younger. They can put a pile of s*** in CF (Crosby), and go "YOUTH MOVEMENT 4 REAL!!"

 

Right now, it looks like the Yankees have: Wang, Hughes, Cano, and maybe Cox and Cabrera as their young talent. The Red Sox on the other hand have: Lester, Papelbon, Beckett, Delcarmen, Hansen, Pena, Crisp, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Murphy. The Red Sox aren't exactly built for now. They can win now, but they can also win in '07 and '08. I'd say the Red Sox have the clear advantedge in the youth department.

 

Last, I wouldn't categorize Proctor, and Farnsworth as "young." Both are 30 years old. Melancon, hasn't thrown one pitch in professional baseball, so I'd wait a bit until you start saying he's going to be up in two years.

I'd throw Clippard in there too. He has had a very good year considering the start he got off to because of the knee injury. I compare him to a Brad Radke type pitcher. The Yankees clearly rely on the FA market. I would be foolish to not admit that. So when you look at it the Yankees are going to be shedding the contracts of guys like Mussina(Likely to resign), Giambi, RJ, Posada, Abreu and Jaret Wright over the next 2 years. So that payroll will not be 200 mill for long and Cashman has said he intends to get younger over the next couple of years while keeping the core of the team together(A-Rod, Jeter, Matsui, Cano, Melky). I'm only saying this because if you read what MC says he makes it sound like all of the Yankees are 38 and have no future. The Yankees will always be active on the FA market while adding guys like Hughes, Clippard, Duncan (I say sell high on him), Cox and later down the line Tabata.

 

BTW Since when did 30 become old? I'd say they still have some good years ahead.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

A Yankee team without Rivera someday will just seem odd

It does, because hes so good and consistant he seems to be the Yankee everyone takes for granted. When hes gone and we are left sweating out the 9th inning we will then realize the great 10 + years we had.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Its amazing to think we may have the MVP and Cy Young winner....but our "team" is mediocre

[jacksonianmarch]

In 2002, the red sox had 2 legitimit MVP candidates in Manny and Nomar and 2 legit cy young candidates in Pedro and Lowe, yet didnt even make the playoffs.

[jsinger121]

In 2002, the red sox had 2 legitimit MVP candidates in Manny and Nomar and 2 legit cy young candidates in Pedro and Lowe, yet didnt even make the playoffs.

 

manny was also lost for 6 weeks of the season with a thumb injury and the angels and a's both were red hot the 2nd half. had manny not been hurt for that amount of time its quite possible the sox make it to the postseason.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

manny was also lost for 6 weeks of the season with a thumb injury and the angels and a's both were red hot the 2nd half. had manny not been hurt for that amount of time its quite possible the sox make it to the postseason.

Was that the injury when he slid head first into the catcher in Seattle?

[jsinger121]

Was that the injury when he slid head first into the catcher in Seattle?

 

yup that play basically wrecked the season

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

yup that play basically wrecked the season

Wow I have a great memory. No way you could replace Manny.