Lugo??

[yankeessuck013]

According to BBTN, it would be a multi-team deal and Lugo would be used for pitching help. He wouldn't even be with us. They didn't give any specifics other than that.

 

So, don't get your panties in a bunnch.

[ORS]

... he plays 2nd base. Arm strength is not something you look at for a 2B. His range is not well below average and it's hardly lower than at other points in his career. Please name ... 15-20 2Bs with better range to prove your point.

Sure, the 19 that are ahead of him in RF out of 22 qualified players.

 

2B Range Factor

 

I think you are seriously overrating a good but not great baseball player.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I'm just curious if anyone has at all thought of the consideration of trying to bring in a closer. Not just any closer, but a proven closer. I know Lidge has had his struggles, but I still believe that he has the stuff to be dominant again, as we've seen in the past. Houston has made it clear that he is available. And I'm not just talking about him, just using him as an example. I know it was rumored that Hansen, our supposed closer of the future, could possibly be on the move (there was a rumor regarding DTrain a while back)...if we could deal Hansen and some prospects and get a starter, and then somehow make another deal for a closer, we could shift Papelbon back into the rotation where he was supposed to be all along. Papelbon has been lights out this year, and don't get me wrong, I'm not usually for messing with success...but something's gotta be done about the back end of this rotation. I really don't think Foulke has anything left to go beyond middle or late inning relief; I can't trust him to close anymore.

 

I'm not too sure, but I think one of the reasons that this hasn't even been investigated, if it indeed hasn't, is because they think it would take too long to recondition Paps to throw 6 or 7 innings a game rather than 1 or sometimes 2. Who knows though, just another possible scenario.

[MC Hammer]

Sure, the 19 that are ahead of him in RF out of 22 qualified players.

 

2B Range Factor

 

I think you are seriously overrating a good but not great baseball player.

Range factor has more to do wtih how many balls are hit at you, not how much range you have. They use Zone Rating to get the number you want.

 

He ranks 16th in Zone Rating ... right in the middle.

 

ZR - Zone Rating - The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah that .991 FPCT is so average.

 

Sigh.

 

That only tells us that Loretta makes plays that are hit toward him. It tells us nothing of Loretta's range, or other defensive skills.

 

Scouts say that Loretta makes all the plays that are hit at him, but has problems going into the hole to rob a base hit.

[CrespoBlows]

Range factor has more to do wtih how many balls are hit at you, not how much range you have. They use Zone Rating to get the number you want.

 

He ranks 16th in Zone Rating ... right in the middle.

 

ZR - Zone Rating - The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

 

Or average.

[MC Hammer]

Or average.

And ORS said his range was well below average.

[MC Hammer]

Sigh.

 

That only tells us that Loretta makes plays that are hit toward him. It tells us nothing of Loretta's range, or other defensive skills.

 

Scouts say that Loretta makes all the plays that are hit at him, but has problems going into the hole to rob a base hit.

Yeah and who would want a 2B that catches everything hit to him? Forget that ... I'd rather have a guy who can get his glove on balls up the middle.

[CrespoBlows]

And ORS said his range was well below average.

 

According to baseballprospectus, Loretta is below average.

 

His FRAA is -4.

[MC Hammer]

According to baseballprospectus, Loretta is below average.

 

His FRAA is -4.

I think I'll go ahead and trust Stats Inc. Something about a random internet site just doesn't get my confidence.

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah and who would want a 2B that catches everything hit to him. Forget that ... I'd rather have a guy who can get his glove on balls up the middle.

 

Loretta makes 6 errors a year.

 

Lugo makes 20 errors a year.

 

Statistics show that Lugo gets to about 75 to 100 more balls then Loretta gets to.

 

Therefore, at it's crudest measurement. Lugo has created about 50 more outs then Loretta.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

I think I'll go ahead and trust Stats Inc. Something about a random internet site just doesn't get my confidence.

 

BP is not just a random site buddy boy

[MC Hammer]

BP is not just a random site buddy boy

Really tell me what makes it any different than the 50 million other internet baseball websites. Because the guy who runs it has been on ESPN a few times? Oh Wow. There are millions of sites posting completely different information, and all have a claim to credibility, but none truely have it.

 

Like I said before I'll trust Stats Inc. about stats long before I'll trust a website. And I'll trust official stats ... not a number that comes from a formula some random "baseball expert" made up.

[Cocos Disciples]

Haha, do you even know what BP is?

[MC Hammer]

Yes I know it's a baseball information website ... much like the 50 million others currently on the internet.

[Cocos Disciples]

If I am not mistaken, BP has even created their own statistics to better measure a player's help to his team, not just individual numbers, as in Value over Replacement Player. It gives you a much better understanding of the value and skill of a player.

[MC Hammer]

If I am not mistaken' date=' BP has even created their own statistics to better measure a player's help to his team, not just individual numbers, as in Value over Replacement Player. It gives you a much better understanding of the value and skill of a player.[/quote']

And like I just said ... there are about 50 million sites on the internet right now doing the exact same thing.

 

Oh yeah, and who says their numbers measure a player better? Oh they do ... so it must be true.

[Cocos Disciples]

Whatever, I'll stop, as I prefer not to argue with someone with the approximate intellect of a primate.

[MC Hammer]

Whatever' date=' I'll stop, as I prefer not to argue with someone with the approximate intellect of a primate.[/quote']

Am I the one that believes everything I read on the internet?

[CrespoBlows]

Whatever' date=' I'll stop, as I prefer not to argue with someone with the approximate intellect of a primate.[/quote']

 

You're in position to say that?

 

The guy doesn't like BP, I don't get the correlation of that and stupidity.

[MC Hammer]

You're in position to say that?

 

The guy doesn't like BP, I don't get the correlation of that and stupidity.

No it's not even that I dont like BP. I have no problem with their site, but I will believe ESPN.com, MLB.com, and Stats Inc. before I'll believe BP.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Everyone can argue all they want about the stats and crap but the fact is....this Red Sox team is falling since the All Star break.....this team needs a shake up because right now it doesn't look like a team that has a chance to make the playoffs let alone a chance to win the World Series.

[ORS]

Range factor has more to do wtih how many balls are hit at you, not how much range you have. They use Zone Rating to get the number you want.

 

He ranks 16th in Zone Rating ... right in the middle.

 

ZR - Zone Rating - The percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive "zone," as measured by STATS, Inc.

I know what ZR is. I also know that it is, like errors, a subjective measure since it takes someones determination to assign the zone. Range Factor is completely objective. It looks at the number of plays made in comparison to the number of innings played. Bill James created it, and his argument for it is that in a large enough sample the distribution of balls hit to each position will be about the same. Whatever, though.

 

Average, below average, he doesn't get to enough balls from what I've seen. He's a good player, but he's totally replaceable, and if he goes to bring back pitching, then I'm for it. This team isn't making the playoffs without another decent starter. Wake or Wells could be the answer, but there are no guarantees.

[riverside sluggers]

He's a good player, but he's totally replaceable, and if he goes to bring back pitching, then I'm for it. This team isn't making the playoffs without another decent starter. Wake or Wells could be the answer, but there are no guarantees.

 

It would be foolish if Sox are banking on Wells, Clement & Wakefield coming back on a white horse. A move for at least a decent starting pitcher must be made. Wakefield will still be out for 3 weeks Im gathering. Can anyone be comfortable with Kyle Snyder in the rotation for that long?... I know I cant, he's showing a long reliever at best

[MC Hammer]

I know what ZR is. I also know that it is, like errors, a subjective measure since it takes someones determination to assign the zone. Range Factor is completely objective. It looks at the number of plays made in comparison to the number of innings played. Bill James created it, and his argument for it is that in a large enough sample the distribution of balls hit to each position will be about the same. Whatever, though.

Right but that number could still be subjective because a fielder might be on a team with a lot of fly ball pitchers ... which would reduce the number of balls hit to him and lower his RF eventhough he did nothing wrong.

 

Average, below average, he doesn't get to enough balls from what I've seen. He's a good player, but he's totally replaceable, and if he goes to bring back pitching, then I'm for it. This team isn't making the playoffs without another decent starter. Wake or Wells could be the answer, but there are no guarantees.

Please name one game we lost becasue of him not getting his glove on a ball up the middle. Then I will name 25 games we lost last year because of errors. Like I said before I'll take a guy that catches everything hit to him over a guy who might get his glove on a ball up the middle.

[CrespoBlows]

Please name one game we lost becasue of him not getting his glove on a ball up the middle. Then I will name 25 games we lost last year because of errors.

 

He made an error against Oakland where he couldn't get over to the right.

 

That cost us a game.

 

Of course, you don't see the damage when Loretta doesn't make the play. There is nothing there to judge Loretta on. Think about what happens though. The out not made, the extra pitches thrown, and so on.

 

Like I said before I'll take a guy that catches everything hit to him over a guy who might get his glove on a ball up the middle.

 

 

I guess you'd rather have Mark Loretta then Ozzie Smith, right?

[Texas_Red_Sox_Fan]

Lugo does not bring too much to the table longterm for the Sox. I say NO!

[CrespoBlows]

Lugo does not bring too much to the table longterm for the Sox. I say NO!

 

Except the fact that he's one of the best offensive SS in baseball?

[ORS]

Right but that number could still be subjective because a fielder might be on a team with a lot of fly ball pitchers ... which would reduce the number of balls hit to him and lower his RF eventhough he did nothing wrong.

 

 

Please name one game we lost becasue of him not getting his glove on a ball up the middle. Then I will name 25 games we lost last year because of errors. Like I said before I'll take a guy that catches everything hit to him over a guy who might get his glove on a ball up the middle.

No doubt, RF isn't perfect. FRAA is a better stat, and it uses a combination of RF, ZR, and F% in it's calculation........but you don't believe in FRAA -- although you do believe in its components -- still having a tough time with that one. Again, I'll concede he's average to alleviate your angst. That doesn't change my mind about his expendability, though. He's the least vital cog to the lineup, IMO. And, the fatal flaw to this team is starting pitching. If he is part of a package that brings back an impact starter, then "Nice knowing you, Mark. Sorry we had to let you go."

[riverside sluggers]

The Providence Journal's Sean McAdam said on WEEI radio that the Red Sox have been in contact with Julio Lugo's agents to discuss a contract extension.

 

If that's the case, Boston and Tampa Bay must have agreed on the players in a deal that may or may not include additional teams. Lugo was believed to be asking for $40 million over five years from the Rays.