John Smoltz??

[Mr Crunchy]

I'm all for making deals, but not this one. Why not trade Pedroia for Kenny Rogers or Kevin Millwood

 

if youre comparing smoltz to kenny rogers or kevin millwood youre the one who needs to get a grip

THEY,meaning theo....traded a stud in freddy sanchez for jeff suppan who wont be confused for a good pitcher any time soon...so THEY will do it if they can.

smoltz is 16-4 in the playoffs

he pitched a pretty good game against us sunday evening and is the definition of a clutch pitcher,maybe the best clutch pitcher the games seen since koufax retired

 

hes still pitching with power if you believe the radar gun

his slider is lites out still

if you put him out there in october you can expect 7ip 3orless earned 7-10ks and no bbs unless HE wants to walk somebody and you'll be in every game he starts

plus he wants the ball

plus he can still go on 3days rest

plus he was a lites out closer when given the chance

 

schill wont be here forever,beckett has yet to step up and shine like he should

wake is wake,a career enigma,even he dont know whats happening in his next start.

nows the time to make a move for this man

i dont care if hes 40

schills pushing 40

clemens is pushing 45

rj is pushing 43 and david wells is 44..mussina is over 38

 

all these guys won 15 last year i think?

 

i understand the anxiety of the league changes,i really do

but we're not talking about soft servers like maddox and glavine here

we're talking about 92-95mph heat and a 3-8 slider thats awesome and a new changeup he developed this offseason

last year he threw 230 innings with an era of 3 and 169 ks

 

he shouldnt be disrespected by being mentioned in the same breath as kenny""coward of the bronx"" rogers and the other guy..

 

smoltz is an alltime great and would be huge for us down the stretch

[jsinger121]

Freddy Sanchez was not not a stud prospect.....he was never rated that high and was only listed as one of the better sox prospects because the sox had a weak farm system. and besides he playing way above his head right now.

[TheKilo]

Freddy Sanchez was not not a stud prospect.....he was never rated that high and was only listed as one of the better sox prospects because the sox had a weak farm system. and besides he playing way above his head right now.

 

 

H'es played way over his head for two and a half months?

 

When does it stop being an accident and start becoming habit?

 

 

BTW, we ripped off Atlanta earlier this offseason in the Marte for Renteria trade.

[CrespoBlows]

H'es played way over his head for two and a half months?

 

When does it stop being an accident and start becoming habit?

 

 

BTW, we ripped off Atlanta earlier this offseason in the Marte for Renteria trade.

 

Players have done that before. Look at Aaron Small or Shawn Chacon.

 

I think Sanchez is a .300 hitter, but he isn't going to hit for a lot of power, or get on base a lot. But he's a decent player.

[Mr Crunchy]

he wasnt rated that high??

who does these ratings??

helen keller?

dont believe everything you read

i tried to explain this to the rivernator and he never could understand that the game is played on the field and not the computer

where did they rank kevin youkillis who duquette drafted in the 8th round??

anyways

when we brought sanchez up from pawtucket in 03 he was leading the international league in hitting ...

just as hes leading the national league today

 

http://www.overthemonster.com/story/2006/6/9/113115/6443

 

i live in the same town as rick asadorian who the sox gave 1.75M to as a bonus while they wouldnt give the same money to mark texeira

whos rick asadorian you may ask and rightly so

wheres he playing today??....his cousin says hes in chatanooga

 

he was a cant miss 5 tool blah blah fukin blah stud

 

wasnt calvin schiraldi projected to be a better talent than roger clemens?

wasnt brad klontz the next coming of joe dimaggiao??

where have you gone tony tarasco??

d'angelo jimenez and jose cruz were both untouchable at 1 point

i remember the fabulous sports babe screaming

JOSE CRUZ JR IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE

meanwhile lou pinella lost game after game with the likes of norm charlton bobby ayala and others who couldnt hold a lead

that seattle team was always a closer away

 

my point is these pencil necks who determine where these guys go in the draft couldnt pick their asses never mind prospects

[CrespoBlows]

he wasnt rated that high??

who does these ratings??

helen keller?

dont believe everything you read

 

Sanchez was projected to be a .300 hitter with littler power, little OBP, and below average defense. So far, he's fufilled all of these projects.

 

You can't seriously believe that Freddy Sanchez will .350 all year? He's a nice player, but he's no Ichiro.

[CrespoBlows]

i tried to explain this to the rivernator and he never could understand that the game is played on the field and not the computer

where did they rank kevin youkillis who duquette drafted in the 8th round??

 

The same guys who value sabermetrics emanicapated Kevin Youkilis. Most scouts believed Youkilis was too fat, and too slow to be an everyday player. Theo Epstein and Billy Beane believed other wise.

 

i live in the same town as rick asadorian who the sox gave 1.75M to as a bonus while they wouldnt give the same money to mark texeira

whos rick asadorian you may ask and rightly so

wheres he playing today??....his cousin says hes in chatanooga

 

Scouts make mistakes?

 

he was a cant miss 5 tool blah blah fukin blah stud

wasnt calvin schiraldi projected to be a better talent than roger clemens?

wasnt brad klontz the next coming of joe dimaggiao??

where have you gone tony tarasco??

d'angelo jimenez and jose cruz were both untouchable at 1 point

i remember the fabulous sports babe screaming

JOSE CRUZ JR IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE

meanwhile lou pinella lost game after game with the likes of norm charlton bobby ayala and others who couldnt hold a lead

that seattle team was always a closer away

 

A closer away? They got pasted by the Orioles in that ALDS. A closer wouldn't have done s***. They ran into Mike Mussina who outpitched Randy Johnson twice.

 

Oh, and Cruz WAS TRADED for Mike Timlin. So they did try to make a move for a closer. Did it work? Nope. Cruz went on to hit 22 HR's a year for Toronto, and 31 and 34 in 2000 and 2001. Move backfired on Seattle.

 

Cruz would have looked better then Glellean Hill and Brian Hunter the next two years, no?

 

my point is these pencil necks who determine where these guys go in the draft couldnt pick their asses never mind prospects

 

I believe scouts pick prospects as well? That's where the tools come in to play. Which side are you against, scouts or sabermetrics. You seem to go back and forth.

[a700hitter]

You guys are all insane. Smoltz is good for one, two years at the MOST.

 

He is not the type of guy to push a team over the top, and even if he were he won't be around in a year. The sox are not the type of team to give away a Bucholz and Pedroia for a 40 year old pitcher. They just aren't. They would give up a Bucholtz and Pedroia for a good YOUNG arm (i.e., Josh Beckett), but not an old man close to retirement.

 

The only reason the sox went after Clemens is that he could be had with only $$$, and if the same were true with Smoltz I'd be all for it.

 

I don't trust the AL--> NL move. I don't trust his age, and I don't think we're going to trade Pedroia for a guy like Smoltz. i just don't see it happening.

 

Also, most of you were all in favor of the "retooling" process during the offseason. Now its all about winning this year... guess what? We're close to winning this year already. We can beat most teams, and I have plenty of faith in wakefield as a #3 in the playoffs (if we get there).

 

I'm all for making deals, but not this one. Why not trade Pedroia for Kenny Rogers or Kevin Millwood?

Getting Smoltz is a win-it-now move. I for one would like to see them win it all again this year. It would be worth a prospect or two as long as it isn't a blue-chipper.

[a700hitter]

Braves don't need Pedroia. what they need is ready made pitching prospects and a few of them. With Scherholtz he is the one who usually rips the other team off. Just look how he got Tim Hudson for 3 stiffs.

So, throw in Edgar Martinez along with Pedroia.

[a700hitter]

9 losses in a row for the Braves. Theo had better beat the Yankees to the punch.

[riverside sluggers]

So, throw in Edgar Martinez along with Pedroia.

 

Jsinger noted again that the Braves have no need for Pedroia with them already having Giles and Betemit. Safe bet to scrap Pedroia from a trade with Atlanta

[Mr Crunchy]

watching the way the lester has pitched against the B league im wondering if we really need to do anything come 7-31

the good thing is we got 6 more weeks to see what he and hansen are really all about and perhaps hansen can eventually bring the same

man theyre both young

 

Quote:

my point is these pencil necks who determine where these guys go in the draft couldnt pick their asses never mind prospects

 

 

I believe scouts pick prospects as well? That's where the tools come in to play. Which side are you against, scouts or sabermetrics. You seem to go back and forth.

 

i dont like the sabermetrics thing quite frankly,reminds me too much of the dan duquette,""Just the facts ma'am"" regime..

scouts tend to see what goes down on the field,they have the feel of the game more so than the guys who plug a players stats and size into a computer and come up with what they feel are the requirements of mlb talent and whether or not a guys got ""it""

 

of course these people know more than i do and its much easier sitting back here and calling the shots after the fact....breaking down their errors is in fact much easier as i dont write the checks or hear the screaming when the #1 draft pix fail...

 

i worked in the same office building in brookline with a shrink who gets hired by all kinds of sports teams,he interviews players before theyre even drafted to get a profile on their mental states....he handled rogelio moret after the fact....remember him??

19 years old,threw absolute fire,won 19 games i believe as a lefty then pulled his car over on the expressway and never spoke another word again,he became completley catatonic

it certainly isnt a perfect science

[example1]

Getting Smoltz is a win-it-now move. I for one would like to see them win it all again this year. It would be worth a prospect or two as long as it isn't a blue-chipper.

 

Fair enough, I guess this is where we differ. I think Pedroia is a blue-chip 2B prospect and we will not regret having a team full of players like him in a year or two. Smoltz is one injury away from retirement.

 

I think that with the planning this FO has done, and their recent drafts, this team has a chance to win it all for the next 10 years (including this year).

[example1]

i dont like the sabermetrics thing quite frankly,reminds me too much of the dan duquette,""Just the facts ma'am"" regime..

 

Okay... I didn't know sabermatricians were the ones who were so good at throwing money down the drain.

 

Scouts can evaluabe a players fluidity and poise, but they can't measure overall production without statistics.

[Mr Crunchy]

the team that won the world series was built by duquette

theo fitted some key components into the scene but the team itself was mostly duquettes

theres no doubt he was an *******

however i think he takes way too much heat for the clemens thing

people dont remember

from 1991-95 clemens was what?

39-40 or 40-41.....

he was the highest paid player in the game at that time.

he wanted 8m per based on that production and toronto paid it

no one else but us were in the ballpark

he also didnt pay mo vaughns 12M per,you dont hear too much about that do you??

i think the mets are still paying some of it

[example1]

the team that won the world series was built by duquette

theo fitted some key components into the scene but the team itself was mostly duquettes

theres no doubt he was an *******

however i think he takes way too much heat for the clemens thing

people dont remember

from 1991-95 clemens was what?

39-40 or 40-41.....

he was the highest paid player in the game at that time.

he wanted 8m per based on that production and toronto paid it

no one else but us were in the ballpark

he also didnt pay mo vaughns 12M per,you dont hear too much about that do you??

i think the mets are still paying some of it

 

I wasn't blaming Duquette for Clemens, was I?

 

You were saying that sabermetrics seem too much like Dan Duquette, and I argued that that was a pretty strange argument given how much he paid to players with low OBP's and a propensity to swing at first pitches. That doesn't mean he didn't get some great players (he did), or that he wasn't somewhat responsible for the WS (although almost all of the role-players were not his doing). You just made a strange argument.

[a700hitter]

Jsinger noted again that the Braves have no need for Pedroia with them already having Giles and Betemit. Safe bet to scrap Pedroia from a trade with Atlanta

They could move Giles to fill other needs.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

They could move Giles to fill other needs.

 

Agreed and if you think about it....we have no need for Dustin Pedroia either.

 

Alex Gonzalez is possibly the best defensive shortstop in the game and Mark Loretta is solid in the field and with a glove. I like having them around to be honest....this is the most solid infield the Red Sox have had since....a long time

 

After tonight we can probably scrap that Anthony Reyes for John Smoltz rumor.

[jsinger121]

Agreed and if you think about it....we have no need for Dustin Pedroia either.

 

Alex Gonzalez is possibly the best defensive shortstop in the game and Mark Loretta is solid in the field and with a glove. I like having them around to be honest....this is the most solid infield the Red Sox have had since....a long time

 

After tonight we can probably scrap that Anthony Reyes for John Smoltz rumor.

 

Mark Loretta is 34 yrs old and is a free agent after the year. Dustin Pedroia is 22 and is basically ready to step in for him. I think its safe to say that Pedroia is the heir to second base as I don't expect Loretta to be back next season when Pedroia can basically give the same production for a fraction of the cost.

[a700hitter]

Mark Loretta is 34 yrs old and is a free agent after the year. Dustin Pedroia is 22 and is basically ready to step in for him. I think its safe to say that Pedroia is the heir to second base as I don't expect Loretta to be back next season when Pedroia can basically give the same production for a fraction of the cost.

I don't doubt that you are right, but it would be a mistake to let Loretta walk unless the cost is prohibitive. After all, the Sox just spent about $1 million garbage trolling for Jason Johnson. I don't think Pedroia cqan step in and replace Loretta's offensive production.

[jsinger121]

I don't doubt that you are right, but it would be a mistake to let Loretta walk unless the cost is prohibitive. After all, the Sox just spent about $1 million garbage trolling for Jason Johnson. I don't think Pedroia cqan step in and replace Loretta's offensive production.

 

Cleveland is helping to pay that garbage....and as loretta hes gonna most likely want 5 million next season and the sox would be better off putting that money towards starting pitching and having pedroia at second because he will be more than ready to play by 2007. I'm pretty sure Pedroia could match Loretta's .729 OPS or even top that given the chance next year.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Cleveland is helping to pay that garbage....and as loretta hes gonna most likely want 5 million next season and the sox would be better off putting that money towards starting pitching and having pedroia at second because he will be more than ready to play by 2007. I'm pretty sure Pedroia could match Loretta's .729 OPS or even top that given the chance next year.

 

I guess the question is: Are we more worried about replacing Mark Loretta for next season or finding a proven starting pitcher to help us win this season??

 

Really no wrong way of answering. You can want to win this year or want to build for next season. I don't see Dustin Pedroia being the next Derek Jeter or David Wright but....who knows.

[Mr Crunchy]

2nd basemen are a dime a dozen

loretta is a damn good ballplayer,so was tony graffanino for that matter

its hard for me to get pumped up over banjo hitting 2nd basemen

with that being said

we havent had a dp combo like loretta and agon in my lifetime and i wouldnt want to f*** with it this summer or next

i take it loretta is a free agent this offseason??

anyone know whats his salary this year?

[jsinger121]

i believe loretta is making about 4 million and that is sure to go up. in my view not worth it for someone who is 34 when the red sox have a 22 yr old that can basically the same things as loretta for a fraction of the cost.

[Mr Crunchy]

i believe loretta is making about 4 million and that is sure to go up. in my view not worth it for someone who is 34 when the red sox have a 22 yr old that can basically the same things as loretta for a fraction of the cost.

 

fair enough

we dont have loretta under contract for next year i take it?

[jsinger121]

Pedroia 3 yr OPS stats in the minors

 

2004

 

Augusta 1.034

Sarasota .940

 

2005

 

.917 Portland

.738 Pawtucket (took a pitch off the wrist and was affected for much of the time there)

 

2006

 

.770 Pawtucket (Strained his right shoulder in spring training and is now fully healthy as the OPS has gone up considerably.

[Mr Crunchy]

tomo okha went 14-0 in pawtucket

brian rose was the international leagues pitcher of the year in 1995or96

rick lancelotti hit 236 homers in the minors

roberto pettagine hit 35 last year?

 

i have yet to see pedroia with my own eyes but i hear hes special

soft hands,quick bat and some speed which we can always use

i guess my point here is i'm more comfortable with the existing status quo and would use this kid to fill this years needs in the starting rotation..

 

with that being said

your points are certainly valid sound and more than reasonable sir

[CrespoBlows]

The Red Sox can let Loretta walk and use the $3.7 million toward another pitcher. Pedroia will probably exceed Loretta's production next year.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

The Red Sox can let Loretta walk and use the $3.7 million toward another pitcher. Pedroia will probably exceed Loretta's production next year.

 

I guess we could just hope Jason Johnson works out then

[Mr Crunchy]

think so crespo?

loretta has played tremendous 2nd base and hit fairly well,.308??

some big clutch hits along the way and great baserunning instincts

pedroia hasnt seen major league pitching yet