05 clement -> 06 beckett

[Teddyballgame10]

I was just thinking about this befor didnt matt clement start off like 9-0 last year and looked greating coming from NL to AL. The after the All Star break he kind of fell apart when the hitters were able to adjust to him. (I dont blame this on the line drive at all.) I know beckett is a much better talent then clement and dont think he will go down the same apth as hitters make adjusments. But I was jsut wondering what do you guys think of that?

[The Monster is my Mom]

Clement is a big pussy and melted down and lost confidence. The same won't happen to Beckett.

[schillingouttheks]

Clement had always had a bad history of breaking down and tiring out during the home stretch of the second half of the season. Beckett has no such history. Beckett had a 0.96 ERA (or something like that) during the '03 playoffs. His dominance can continue way past the end of the first half of the season.

 

Clement is a pussy? What the f***?

[jsinger121]

Beckett has superior stuff to Clement and they should not even be talked about in the same breath

[ksushi]

Nothing. Matt Clement would have continued to be solid had he not got beaned. He wouldn't have kept aceing, but he would have been solid. His stamina was set back a great deal by getting hit, and he became tentative on the hill. Beckett has had ace stuff but has been sidelined before with injury. These are two different beasts. Matt Clement has a history losing his footing in the second half, Beckett has a history of being a beast when he isn't hurt. You can't say that just because one guy went downhill after a good start that here on in any guy who gets off to a good start must be going down that path too. I know you're not saying hes going down that same path, but really there aren't any simliarities. Beckett is a beast. We have a great front of the order. Don't be surprised if the Yankees are looking up at the sox even after mothers day.

[Teddyballgame10]

I really hope so and just hope that hitters dont make adjusments and figure him out

[ksushi]

Beckett has superior stuff to Clement and they should not even be talked about in the same breath

 

I wouldn't be so quick to insult Clements stuff. Clement has ace stuff, make no mistake about it. He loses focus and especially in the second half he runs into big innings. Its more of a mental edge that he loses. His stuff is down right filthy.

[jsinger121]

Beckett throws in the upper 90's with better secondary stuff while Clement pitches in the high 80's to low 90's and his secondary pitches are not as good. Beckett is an ace while Clement is a #3 pitcher.

[yeszir]

Here's hoping Beckett doesn't get drilled in the face. "Pussy"

[ksushi]

I really hope so and just hope that hitters dont make adjusments and figure him out

 

Hitters will make adjustments. Baseball is all about adjustments. He is a major league pitcher and when those adjustments come, Beckett will battle back. His ERA obviously isn't going to stay at 1.29 or whatever it is, but don't be surprised when he has an ace season.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I think that Beckett is a far far superior pitcher to Clement. There's no two ways about it. I think Clement's start last year was a huge surprise, where as we're seeing what Beckett is capable of. Now, I don't think Beckett is going to go bell to bell with an ERA under 2 and a perfect record, but I just think he's more refined then Clement is. Everyone always says "Clement has great stuff" no one really says "Clement is a great pitcher" where as I think Beckett is definitely the latter, he has the stuff and has it refined enough to put together a HUGE year.

[schillingouttheks]

Beckett throws in the upper 90's with better secondary stuff while Clement pitches in the high 80's to low 80's and his secondary pitches are not as good. Beckett is an ace while Clement is a #3 pitcher.

I don't understand how we can go off of a statement such as "his secondary pitches are not as good." Do you have any solid proof of numbers or something that we could see?

 

This wasn't a shot at you, but a serious question.

[ksushi]

Beckett throws in the upper 90's with better secondary stuff while Clement pitches in the high 80's to low 80's and his secondary pitches are not as good. Beckett is an ace while Clement is a #3 pitcher.

 

High to low 80's? What is that? Clement's slider is as good as there is in baseball. Don't kid yourself. Clements fastball is in the high 88's and touches 90, but velocity is only one component in a good fastball. His stuff moves. Clement's mental game puts him as a #3 starter, but he has the pure stuff to be an ace if he went right after hitters. He always nibbles and gets himself in trouble.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Clement had always had a bad history of breaking down and tiring out during the home stretch of the second half of the season. Beckett has no such history. Beckett had a 0.96 ERA (or something like that) during the '03 playoffs. His dominance can continue way past the end of the first half of the season.

 

Clement is a pussy? What the f***?

 

I said that about Clement because even though he has the physical tools, he just loses it upstairs. He lacks confidence up their on the mound.

[jsinger121]

I don't understand how we can go off of a statement such as "his secondary pitches are not as good." Do you have any solid proof of numbers or something that we could see?

 

This wasn't a shot at you, but a serious question.

 

I can see it with my own eyes. Beckett's stuff is superior to Clement's and it is not even close. He has a better curveball hence what we saw to Richie Sexson today. His fastball is completely explosive. I really can't believe people are comparing Beckett to someone like Matt Clement.

[ksushi]

I can see it with my own eyes. Beckett's stuff is superior to Clement's and it is not even close. He has a better curveball hence what we saw to Richie Sexson today. His fastball is completely explosive. I really can't believe people are comparing Beckett to someone like Matt Clement.

 

They have different stuff, but your wrong here. Beckett is a better pitcher, no question about it, but Clement has very very good stuff. Stop putting him down because its the trendy thing to do right now. Clement is a solid pitcher with ace stuff. These are two different pitchers here. Clement relies on different things to get people out, that doesn't mean his stuff isn't as good. Beckett can blow 97 mph heat by people and make them dizzy with a ridiculous curve. While Clement can back you off the plate with his slider, jam you with his fastball, and make you watch his cutter jump into the zone for strike 3. When he is good, that is what he does. They work differently, and yeah Beckett is the better pitcher, but I wouldn't neccessarily make the assumption that Beckett has 'superior' stuff just because he has gotten better results. If Clement had the mental make up of Beckett, its scary to think of the s*** Clement could do.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, Clement's whole rap is that he can't put together a whole season, and that he can't command those nasty pitches. If he ahd control, we'd have a quatro of all-star pitchers in our rotation and 4 potential aces. Beckett is considered worlds beyond him because he has the right mental state, has the same if not a little better stuff and he can CONTROL it. So he ahs 2 pieces Clement doesn't.

[hoefdj18]

The only knock on Clement is when he loses his edge, it's lost.

[kreinbihl34]

I can see it with my own eyes. Beckett's stuff is superior to Clement's and it is not even close. He has a better curveball hence what we saw to Richie Sexson today. His fastball is completely explosive. I really can't believe people are comparing Beckett to someone like Matt Clement.

 

I hope the Yankees hire you.

[Ray10]

Nah Beckett won't be the Clement of last year. He will have a good season not just a good half a year.

[tedred9sox]

Nah Beckett won't be the Clement of last year. He will have a good season not just a good half a year.

 

True, I see Beckett winning 18-19 games ...

[TheRivernator]

Nothing. Matt Clement would have continued to be solid had he not got beaned. He wouldn't have kept aceing, but he would have been solid. His stamina was set back a great deal by getting hit, and he became tentative on the hill. Beckett has had ace stuff but has been sidelined before with injury. These are two different beasts. Matt Clement has a history losing his footing in the second half, Beckett has a history of being a beast when he isn't hurt. You can't say that just because one guy went downhill after a good start that here on in any guy who gets off to a good start must be going down that path too. I know you're not saying hes going down that same path, but really there aren't any simliarities. Beckett is a beast. We have a great front of the order. Don't be surprised if the Yankees are looking up at the sox even after mothers day.

 

ksush, I know you will forever defend the sox, but even you have to see the severity of the reach on this one. Clement is like a schizophrenic on his meds. He seems to do great, but everyone knows the meltdown is coming, it is only a matter of when. I dont think him getting hit in the head meant anything, he just melted.....

[KeepTheFaith1229]

When I first saw the thread name "05 clement -> 06 beckett" I thought the person was saying beckett is better than clement and I was gonna come in here and dish s*** out.

 

I never thought of that though, but I think Beckett will still be lights out come September and October.

[mtbykr]

They are both great pitchers, but i expect to see more out of beckett. I give clement a pass though last year, becuase i think that the melon shot really did affect him---i remember hearing remy talk about how he was "falling off the mound" when he pitched and was very different. Does anyone have the numbers for pre and post melon shot last year?

[riverside sluggers]

Rightfully so, Beckett is the guy you give the ball to in crunch time (September). 23 games in that month, he holds a 2.48 ERA. Also his ERA after the All-Star Break is at 3.26

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Rightfully so, Beckett is the guy you give the ball to in crunch time (September). 23 games in that month, he holds a 2.48 ERA. Also his ERA after the All-Star Break is at 3.26

Agreed, but Schilling isn't to shabby either.

[mtbykr]

Agreed, but Schilling isn't to shabby either.

 

 

True, i thought that NESN (don't remember who, Remy mabey) made a good point yesterday saying that Shill's best 2 seasons were when he was part of a great 1-2 punch. With RJ in Arizona and Pedro in 04---let's hope the trend continues:D

[Sox Fan on Cape]

True, i thought that NESN (don't remember who, Remy mabey) made a good point yesterday saying that Shill's best 2 seasons were when he was part of a great 1-2 punch. With RJ in Arizona and Pedro in 04---let's hope the trend continues:D

I heard that also. I think thats what we have again. Hmm, sounds like 04' again. How lovely !

[riverside sluggers]

Agreed, but Schilling isn't to shabby either.

 

true, as I was relaying why Beckett is the better pitcher than Clement in the 2nd half. But yes, Beckett & Schilling could be a 1-2 force down the stretch.

[a700hitter]

I was just thinking about this befor didnt matt clement start off like 9-0 last year and looked greating coming from NL to AL. The after the All Star break he kind of fell apart when the hitters were able to adjust to him. (I dont blame this on the line drive at all.) I know beckett is a much better talent then clement and dont think he will go down the same apth as hitters make adjusments. But I was jsut wondering what do you guys think of that?

You really worry way too much.