So how much are we really paying for Coco?

[pats55sox45]

we avoided abritration

and are giving him 2.75 this yr, but how much is he really costing us

we had to fork over money to get marte, who we shipped for coco

and in that deal we had to include money too

 

i cant remember the exact dollar amounts per yr in that deal

i think 4 and 1 sound right, but not sure

if thats the case we're really paying him 7.75 mill this yr

does anyone remember the exact dollar amnts

[KeepTheFaith1229]

We sent 11 million in the Renteria for Marte deal.

[pats55sox45]

We sent 11 million in the Renteria for Marte deal.

 

over three yrs?

[riverside sluggers]

From what I can gather, the Sox will be paying Atlanta $11 million straight up. I'll try to find info on the deal to clarify this

[He Hate Me]

forgot you guys had sent in part of Edgar's salary. I can't figure out why he didn't produce in Boston. Very good career numbers. Still young, performed well on the big stage in 97. Any guesses? Was it a mental thing? Or merely too high expectations? Cuz I didnt think his numbers were that bad, then again I didnt have ot watch him every game.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Isn't he suspected of being one of those Hispanic players that is older than everyone thinks he is? Like Furcal.

[pats55sox45]

i thought the 11 mill was over a certain time period

[jsinger121]

i think its like close to 4 mil per season going to atlanta

[ksushi]

It had nothing to do with his age and no he isn't suspected of being older than reported. Furcal is thought? I didn't know that. I know the Sox had some big prospect who did that this past year, and I know one of the A's pitchers did that this year too. Everyone thought he was 23, turned out he was 25, no big deal really.

 

Renteria was just absurdly out of shape which probably led to back problems. You've got to be in tip top shape to range a good way to either side or dive for a ball and renteria rarely got dirty because he just wasn't in good enough shape. I liked Renteria, and I think he did a lot of little things that at the end of the day really payed off, but quietly, but he was out of shape and he fielded well below his ability. I remember reading a couple reports on him coming into spring training and all things seemed good but there were a couple with little caveats saying he was considerably out of shape and that it might prove to be an issue. Man did they hit on the head.

[guapo34]

The $11 million sent to Atlanta was for two reasons.

 

1. Edgar Rentaria was overpaid. In order to get fair value for a player who is overpaid, you should send money.

 

2. Marte was likely to be very underpaid for the first 6 years of major league service.

 

None of this has anything to do with Coco Crisp.

[pats55sox45]

The $11 million sent to Atlanta was for two reasons.

 

1. Edgar Rentaria was overpaid. In order to get fair value for a player who is overpaid, you should send money.

 

2. Marte was likely to be very underpaid for the first 6 years of major league service.

 

None of this has anything to do with Coco Crisp.

 

well it kinda does have to do with coco

cuz in essence we are paying that money that we gave to atlanta for the right to have coco crisp

nobody has answered my question

how much per yr are we paying atl?

[example1]

I don't know why it matters how much per year we are paying atlanta. In any case, we are paying them 11 million. For all I know the money could already have changed hands. What they got in exchange was Marte who we swung for Coco Crisp, a cheap player in an expensive player position, whom we control for the next 4 years.

[guapo34]

well it kinda does have to do with coco

cuz in essence we are paying that money that we gave to atlanta for the right to have coco crisp

nobody has answered my question

how much per yr are we paying atl?

 

The only way you can include the money to get Coco is if you look at it as Rentaria for Coco and remove Marte from the equation, and then the trade looks even better. You can't include both because there was never an option to have that 11 million and still have Marte.

 

If its Edgar Rentaria and 11 million for Coco then you're getting the better player for less money. Coco won't make 19 million over the next 3 years, and thats the difference if take 11 million from Edgar's deal.

[Bruce]

forgot you guys had sent in part of Edgar's salary. I can't figure out why he didn't produce in Boston. Very good career numbers. Still young, performed well on the big stage in 97. Any guesses? Was it a mental thing? Or merely too high expectations? Cuz I didnt think his numbers were that bad, then again I didnt have ot watch him every game.

 

His offensive numbers last year were pretty much right in line with his career numbers. He's never been a particularly good hitter. His inability to play better than replacement level defense came as a surprise.

[pats55sox45]

the reason im asking how much we payed to atl is becuz we were trying to save moiney at cf when we didnt wanna pay jd wat he wanted, and im glad they did what they did

 

what it is, is how much money are we giving up per yr, for the right to have coco crisp on our team

both trades involved money, and without both trades we dont have coco

[kreinbihl34]

It doesn't matter if we are paying Coco the same we are could be paying Jonny. Even though Jonny is a great player now in three years Coco will be better than Jonny ever was. So this was some great moves by the Red Sox

[jsinger121]

i wouldn't say ever was but the chances of him becoming as good as damon or better might favor crisp because of age, home ballpark, working with papa jack.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

i think its like close to 4 mil per season going to atlanta

My understanding was $ 11 million spread out over 3 years. The distribution ( front or back loading or straight line ) wasn't released to the best of my knowledge. I would guess something like: 4,4,3. This was done to : (1) reduce the cost of Renteria's overpaid contract, and to lesson the impact on the Sox both from an operational and luxury tax implications. From an accounting point of view, this cost would then be associated with the acquired player, Marte. Marte was then essentially traded for Crisp. Crisp was signed to a one year contract ( to avoid arbitration and the related ill will that can create ) for $ 2.75 million to this we add the 4 million. Resulting in a cost of $ 6.75 million for this year. Assuming that he produces, his cost will rise, due to the fact he is arbitration eligible the next two years. Therefore, the Sox will either sign him to a new contract or pay the increased cost of arbitration, either way his cost will increase. Personally, I think they (FO ) over paid for Renteria and refused to do this for Damon ( money + years ).

 

Current :

 

Renteria / Marte Deal...... $ 4.00 million

Crisp 1 yr. Contract............ 2.75

 

Cost for Crisp this year.... $ 6.75 million

 

Cost for A. Gonzalez........ $ 3.00

 

 

Total Cost.................... $ 9.75 million

 

 

 

If we kept Renteria & Damon :

 

Damon's current contarct..... $ 13 million

Renteria's contract..................10 million

 

Total Cost........................ $ 23 million

[He Hate Me]

It doesn't matter if we are paying Coco the same we are could be paying Jonny. Even though Jonny is a great player now in three years Coco will be better than Jonny ever was. So this was some great moves by the Red Sox

 

let Coco play one full year in Boston before you make that assessment

[pats55sox45]

Current :

 

Renteria / Marte Deal...... $ 4.00 million

Crisp 1 yr. Contract............ 2.75

 

Cost for Crisp this year.... $ 6.75 million

 

Cost for A. Gonzalez........ $ 3.00

 

 

Total Cost.................... $ 9.75 million

 

 

 

If we kept Renteria & Damon :

 

Damon's current contarct..... $ 13 million

Renteria's contract..................10 million

 

Total Cost........................ $ 23 million

 

thanks sfoc

this is what i wanted to see

although i thought we also gave like one mill in the cleveland trade

but that would only bring coco+agonzalez to 10.75

 

anyway 9.75 or 10.75 as compared to 23 is a great move by the sox

ur getting as good defense in cf, and better defense at ss

ur getting about the same offense at cf, but worse offense at ss

BUT ur saving 12 million dollars

thats a lot of money

and an efficient move by the sox

[Plumpamania]

I love how everyone thinks that b/c our rival is MFY, that we have to spend like them b/c we are a big market team too.

 

There is a difference between spending $$ and spending $$ wisely...

[kreinbihl34]

let Coco play one full year in Boston before you make that assessment

 

I've seen Coco play at Jacobs, I live in Ohio and this guy is a player. I think that he will be better than Damon and if he is not then you guys can ride my ass all you want. I will stand by this statement until Coco proves me wrong.

[example1]

My understanding was $ 11 million spread out over 3 years. The distribution ( front or back loading or straight line ) wasn't released to the best of my knowledge. I would guess something like: 4,4,3. This was done to : (1) reduce the cost of Renteria's overpaid contract, and to lesson the impact on the Sox both from an operational and luxury tax implications. From an accounting point of view, this cost would then be associated with the acquired player, Marte. Marte was then essentially traded for Crisp. Crisp was signed to a one year contract ( to avoid arbitration and the related ill will that can create ) for $ 2.75 million to this we add the 4 million. Resulting in a cost of $ 6.75 million for this year. Assuming that he produces, his cost will rise, due to the fact he is arbitration eligible the next two years. Therefore, the Sox will either sign him to a new contract or pay the increased cost of arbitration, either way his cost will increase. Personally, I think they (FO ) over paid for Renteria and refused to do this for Damon ( money + years ).

 

Current :

 

Renteria / Marte Deal...... $ 4.00 million

Crisp 1 yr. Contract............ 2.75

 

Cost for Crisp this year.... $ 6.75 million

 

Cost for A. Gonzalez........ $ 3.00

 

 

Total Cost.................... $ 9.75 million

 

 

 

If we kept Renteria & Damon :

 

Damon's current contarct..... $ 13 million

Renteria's contract..................10 million

 

Total Cost........................ $ 23 million

 

I think that just about covers it SFOC, thanks.

 

So the redsox are spending about 13 million less... let's see, what could that get the red sox? Knowing their front office and the way they use money, I imagine it could get them TONS. While we may not find another David Ortiz for very cheap, it is likely that there are other really good players out there who can be had for 3-6 million and who will eventually be worth 11 million.

 

I am very happy with how this FO has constructed their team. They took a poorly built, inflexible, overpaid team and turned it into a team deep in talent at up and down the order, on the bench, in the starting rotation and in the pen. With or without Foulke the pen will be quite strong IMO.

[example1]

I've seen Coco play at Jacobs, I live in Ohio and this guy is a player. I think that he will be better than Damon and if he is not then you guys can ride my ass all you want. I will stand by this statement until Coco proves me wrong.

 

I think that Theo said it right when he said that its not really valid to compare these players. they are at different stages of their career and have different specialties. What is important is how well they fit into the team they're on, the players they play with, the city, and the manager. Damon had to fit-in in one time, Crisp will have to do so in another. I think he will be very, very good for the next few years but I don't actually care if he is "better" than Damon. As long as he does everything he is supposed to do I'll be happy with him.

[Manny Goes Boom]

I think that Theo said it right when he said that its not really valid to compare these players. they are at different stages of their career and have different specialties. What is important is how well they fit into the team they're on, the players they play with, the city, and the manager. Damon had to fit-in in one time, Crisp will have to do so in another. I think he will be very, very good for the next few years but I don't actually care if he is "better" than Damon. As long as he does everything he is supposed to do I'll be happy with him.

 

Nicely put. I share that sentiment with you.

[He Hate Me]

I've seen Coco play at Jacobs, I live in Ohio and this guy is a player. I think that he will be better than Damon and if he is not then you guys can ride my ass all you want. I will stand by this statement until Coco proves me wrong.

 

People who do well in other markets have floundered in the Boston/NY scene.

[guapo34]

People who do well in other markets have floundered in the Boston/NY scene.

 

 

And some people who do well in Boston/NY have struggled after leaving. Baseball players performance are a volatile thing. I don't buy into the theory that playing in Boston or New York have anything to do with that.

[MC Hammer]

And some people who do well in Boston/NY have struggled after leaving. Baseball players performance are a volatile thing. I don't buy into the theory that playing in Boston or New York have anything to do with that.

I think it can, but it doesn't affect every player. There are certain players that let mental blocks ruin their careers, and there are others that never let anything get to them. Playing in BOS/NYY puts more pressure on a player, and depending on who that player is, they may thrive or completely implode.

[guapo34]

I think it can, but it doesn't affect every player. There are certain players that let mental blocks ruin their careers, and there are others that never let anything get to them. Playing in BOS/NYY puts more pressure on a player, and depending on who that player is, they may thrive or completely implode.

 

But how can you be so sure that if a player doesn't succeed in Boston or New York its because of pressure and not aging, changing leagues, or they just can't live up to a few career years before they got there.

[He Hate Me]

And some people who do well in Boston/NY have struggled after leaving. Baseball players performance are a volatile thing. I don't buy into the theory that playing in Boston or New York have anything to do with that.

 

Some people respond better to the fishbowl treatment than others. There are those who thrive in it, and there are those who shrivel up in it