So Who Wins the East?

[schillingouttheks]

Why havent the yankees won in 5 years?

Because of luck- gonzo's hit in 2001

Are you f***ing serious? The Yankees got beat in 2001. That was not luck. That was good hitting by Gonzo, and the Yankees getting too happy, too early.

 

Your other reasons are correct, as the Yankees did simply just get outplayed, as you said.

[jsinger121]

i would say luck got the yanks to the 7th game. if the dbacks had they had a real closer would have finished them off in 5 games.

[TheRivernator]

Are you f***ing serious? The Yankees got beat in 2001. That was not luck. That was good hitting by Gonzo, and the Yankees getting too happy, too early.

 

Your other reasons are correct, as the Yankees did simply just get outplayed, as you said.

 

 

not just gonzo's hit, but how many times does Mo throw to the wrong side of the bag, how many times will tony womack handle a Mo cutter on the hands, how many times with a broken bat texas leaguer fall in. Having your bat shattered is not good hitting, no matter how you slice it. The dbacks had luck on their side and played well to boot in 2001. They earned it, but dont discount how much luck they had to have....

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Are you f***ing serious? The Yankees got beat in 2001. That was not luck. That was good hitting by Gonzo, and the Yankees getting too happy, too early.

 

Your other reasons are correct, as the Yankees did simply just get outplayed, as you said.

You can look at it a couple of different ways. One way is If the infield was playing back its an easy flare to Jeter. I doubt the Yankees were "getting too happy". This is the same team that won the 4 titles prior to that so they were around the block a few times.

[TheRivernator]

i would say luck got the yanks to the 7th game. if the dbacks had they had a real closer would have finished them off in 5 games.

 

so true. BTW, that was quite possibly the best WS I have ever seen...

[ORS]

ORS here is what Schilling said after one of his starts:

 

In postgame interviews Schilling said "Tonight was a night I had the stuff to win and I didn't execute," saying he had a good fastball, felt good physically, but failed to command his pitches when he needed to. He also said he didn't throw his first splitter until the ninth hitter of the game, something he believes cost him, and he pointed to it as a pitch he must improve on and regain confidence in moving forward.

 

He got hammered but had good velocity. What was the problem then?

 

http://www.masslive.com/weblogs/leftfield/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mass_outofleftfield/archives/2005_08.html

I know he needs his splitter to be effective. I've never said he doesn't. You are the one who said his velocity is immaterial, which is bogus considering the way he pitches.

 

The thing that sapped his power and hurt his mechanics on the splitter was his ankle. He couldn't drop and drive like he was used to because he wasn't fully healed. According to doctors, and Curt himself in recent interviews, he's fully healed now and his ankle feels like normal again. And, he's had an entire offseason to work on those mechanics (something he couldn't do last year since he was on crutches).

 

Every Yankee fan I knew was saying Giambi will be back while every Sox fan said he was cooked prior to last year. I tried warning them that is was very unlikely that he'd still be a .220 hitter with little power after he kicked the bug and got some reps. Now it is the polar opposite. You mentioned doubts about the effectiveness of this surgical procedure since Jamal Lewis is the only other major sport athlete to have it done. Curt is pitcher, Jamal is a RB, and is still a good one at that. If it can allow an NFL RB to return to form, I'm pretty confident that it would allow a pitcher to push off the rubber 100-120 times every 5th day.

[jsinger121]

for me the 2004 WS was better

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

i would say luck got the yanks to the 7th game. if the dbacks had they had a real closer would have finished them off in 5 games.

excellent point, the yankees if you look at the stats were outplayed. It was kinda like the 1960 Yankees-Pirates series. The Yankees destroyed the Pirates in 3 of those games but the Pirates were able to pull out 4 games.

[schillingouttheks]

Well then, like jsinger said, it's only fair to say the Yanks even got to the 7th game. How often do you see a closer on a world series comepting team blow games that much?

[TheRivernator]

NFL running backs need power and quickness. MLB pitchers need power and the ability to repeat a fine movement 100-150 times a night. Big difference....

[riverside sluggers]

I seriously think people are not addressing the yankee offense this yr, and I hope it bites them in the ass. Those who did not watch them did not notice the huge flaw that they had and how their offense was feast or famine over consistency. Damon will help us in that area. It should be a great yr....

 

I have not addressed their offense because I do realize that they are set to have the best offense of baseball, so its a non-issue

[schillingouttheks]

NFL running backs need power and quickness. MLB pitchers need power and the ability to repeat a fine movement 100-150 times a night. Big difference....

No one said anything about teh NFL....

[Cityofchampions33]

Well I'd say chemistry has SOMETHING to do with baseball, maybe not as much as other sports, but it does help. For example, if a catcher and pitcher hate each otehr, than they will most likely throw the wrong pitches and not communicate. If tehre's a double play situation a SS and 2B need to know the style of each other's play in order to execute it to it's fastest. If there's a fly ball to LF/CF than they need to know what the f***'s up.

 

Also the reasons you gave for the Yanks losing aren't exactly dead on

 

2001- Great pitching (Schill, Johnson)

2002- Great overall (good starters, killer bullpen, good offense)

2003- Great pitching/defense (terrific starters, gg defense)

2004- Plain old choke

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I know he needs his splitter to be effective. I've never said he doesn't. You are the one who said his velocity is immaterial, which is bogus considering the way he pitches.

I stopped reading after this. I coulda swore I DIDNT say Velocity was immaterial. Lets take a look back:

When it comes to pitching velocity is the last thing that matters(obv it matters but its not the most important thing). Its all about location and movement.

 

I think I just said "obv it matters". For a power pitcher like Schilling IT MATTERS, my overall point was he wasnt getting his splitter over which was the greater problem. According to Schilling himself it was the greater problem.

[TheRivernator]

I have not addressed their offense because I do realize that they are set to have the best offense of baseball, so its a non-issue

 

They are, I agree. But it is not a non-issue. The yankees had a great offense last yr, but it was flawed. This yr, assuming everyone plays to par, it will not only be better, but it will be more consistent. Think about it this way. When the sox were winning due to offense in august, were they winning one game 12-8 and the next 1-0? No, they were winning all their games with 6-10+ runs. That is consistency. If you looked at the yankees scores last yr, they were a bipolar offense, amassing 15 runs one game and 2 the next. Filling holes, getting more consistent, and manufacturing runs will make the offense smooth out. That means that they'll win more games due to offense this yr and hopefully make this less of a race at the end. I will say this, something that sox fans and yankee fans will agree on. Not being able to set the rotation was a huge downfall to both our teams in the 2005 playoffs. I hope we get to do that this yr, then again, at this point I'd take just being in the playoffs.....

[KeepTheFaith1229]

AND that talent comes with a free bonus of egotistical pricks/cheaters such as Damon, Sheffield, Johnson, Brown, and Giambi.

 

 

You forgot A-Rod. (see: Slappy, 2004 ALCS)

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

No one said anything about teh NFL....

ORS in his post compared Schilling to Jamal Lewis.

[schillingouttheks]

Oh. My bad then.

[Cityofchampions33]

Believe it or not but not everyone is blessed with that kinda of stuff. There are more people with the stuff of Glavine or Moyer then Clemens. Thus makes movement and location more important.

 

I seriosuly doubt there's been s survey or count up of how many power to finesse pitchers tehre are in the Majors. And yes maybe less people are gifted with the stuff, etc. but they are more likely to make than a guy who throws 80 with good control. I agree control is improtant, but you can't just loft it in and hit it low and wherever and get away with it, you need the speed to deceive or make the batter's swing less effective, a la Mo's cutter.

[Cityofchampions33]

You forgot A-Rod. (see: Slappy, 2004 ALCS)

 

I'm tellin ya, I need more sleep. Actually we both made the same error, I too looked up Slappy in 2004 and got nothing, however I forgot it was under Bitchslappy so there's the answer to my problem.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I seriosuly doubt there's been s survey or count up of how many power to finesse pitchers tehre are in the Majors. And yes maybe less people are gifted with the stuff, etc. but they are more likely to make than a guy who throws 80 with good control. I agree control is improtant, but you can't just loft it in and hit it low and wherever and get away with it, you need the speed to deceive or make the batter's swing less effective, a la Mo's cutter.

IMO Control is the most important think. Just look at Scott Proctor. He throws like 97 MPH. But he cant put the ball where he wants too. Jorge Julio is another one. There are a bunch of examples. I like to use Mike Mussina as an example. He only throws around 88-92 (92 on a good day) but he can put the ball where he wants too. When it comes to velocity its more about changing speeds rather then just rearing back and throwing it by someone.

[Redguitar985]

I think the Jays are way overrated, but then the Yankees and the Sox have a lot of issues too. I'll say the final standings will be 1. Red Sox, 2. Blue Jays, 3. Yankees, 4. Devil Rays, 5. Orioles. The Devil Rays I only put in fourth because I think Baltimore will blow completly. Their time was last year, and they f***ed it up, so I say they go in decline now.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, agreed, you need a decent amount of both to do well.

[jsinger121]

jays have an average to below average infield defense.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Even if he's a Yankee fan, I'm going to have to side with ATG13 on this one, control is a bit more important than velocity. No doubt, velocity is very important, but if you can't throw strikes or hit a location, you're going to get hammered.

[TheRivernator]

the jays will not be there in the end. They got 2 guys who are shady at best for ay too much. They should have held onto their money and waited till 07 when the FA crop will be nice....

[ORS]

I stopped reading after this. I coulda swore I DIDNT say Velocity was immaterial. Lets take a look back:

You said....

 

Curt's big problem wasn't velocity.

 

Which is stated in a clearer fashion here...

 

I think I just said "obv it matters". For a power pitcher like Schilling IT MATTERS, my overall point was he wasnt getting his splitter over which was the greater problem. According to Schilling himself it was the greater problem.

Given the way he pitches, velocity is just as important as his secondary pitches IMO.

[Cityofchampions33]

Even if he's a Yankee fan, I'm going to have to side with ATG13 on this one, control is a bit more important than velocity. No doubt, velocity is very important, but if you can't throw strikes or hit a location, you're going to get hammered.

 

Yeah, totally agreed, but if you have control but throw 70 mph you won't exactly become an ace. It kind of a botomless-pit argument because as just said you need both

[TheRivernator]

You said....

 

 

 

Which is stated in a clearer fashion here...

 

 

Given the way he pitches, velocity is just as important as his secondary pitches IMO.

 

I think Curt could be a solid #3 starter in the AL if he had poor velocity. His MO was power with finesse. Take a look at his walk totals in his career. They were great and fed into why he was effective. Last yr he was wild inside the zone and he got shelled. Nobody knows how he will react, but I think he might let some of you guys down who think last yr was a blip on the radar....

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Yeah, totally agreed, but if you have control but throw 70 mph you won't exactly become an ace. It kind of a botomless-pit argument because as just said you need both

 

Indeedly.

 

Although there aren't too many MLB pitchers with a 70 MPH fastball, except maybe Wake and he can go a little over 70.