4-way deal?

[example1]

This is all ridiculuous. I don't see any 4 team deal coming.

 

1) The O's would need to get something else other than Lugo et. al, in any 4 team deal. Milledge would be a good start. What it comes down to, I think, is that the Mets are willing to give up a lot if they end up with Manny in the end. They can afford him and he would be just what they need. Does anyone really think that they will give up Tejada for a few B- players and an A- prospect? I sure don't.

 

2) Tampa has no interest in giving the sox anything they want; they have the sox in the palm of their hand for Julio Lugo. LUGO for crying out loud.

 

3) The impression I get about "why don't the sox just keep manny" is that he is having personal issues that the Sox brass are sympathetic to. Someone called WEEI today and asked the big show guys whether reporters knew what was going on with manny and they were just not willing to talk about it--for personal reasons. The guys both said, essentially, "Yes, most reporters know what's up with him but they don't want to discuss it, its personal". I was surprised by the lack of gossip, but had heard earlier in the day someone mention that his wife REALLY REALLY wanted out. She apparently hates living in Boston and was likely the one that wanted him to sell his apartment. That seems like the type of thing that most GM's/Owners/Players would be sympathetic to: the whole "Family comes first" mantra comes to mind.

 

So perhaps that explains why the sox are willing to try everything they can to trade him, but are unwilling to do it if it costs them greatly.

 

Only a deal along the lines of Tejada for Manny, without it costing the sox a lot of money would suffice IMHO.

 

Anyway, I don't think any of this stuff will happen. I will be happy for Manny and his family if he gets out without it costing the sox 10m a year to make it happen. Get Tejada? Sure. But Baltimore won't do it if they don't get a marquee player in return.

[schillingouttheks]

Wait, wait, wait. Need to edit this post. I forgot there were 2 more pages for me to read before I posted

[Beckett95]

according to mlbtraderumors, the cubs are out of the tejada chase and its only the redsox left

 

 

this from the boston globe...

Dealing Miguel Tejada within the division remains a road the Orioles would rather not go down, but the Red Sox, according to a source with direct knowledge of the team's pursuit of the shortstop, have made a ''pretty good offer" that has positioned them as a legitimate contender for the 2002 American League Most Valuable Player.

 

The Sox, who initially offered Manny Ramírez for Tejada straight up, recently offered Ramírez and righthander Matt Clement, according to the source. However, three stumbling blocks stand between the teams and a deal.

 

1. Baltimore's ownership and management is largely opposed to dealing Tejada within the AL East; 2. Ramírez and Clement are owed approximately $22 million more in guaranteed money than Tejada. (Ramírez is due $57 million over three seasons, Clement $19.25 million over two seasons, and Tejada $48 million over four seasons plus $6 million owed on a prorated signing bonus); 3. Ramírez, who can veto any deal, would have to approve a move to Baltimore.

 

Of those issues, the second appears to be the most vexing to the Orioles.

 

''That's the problem," the source said. ''The money."

 

Whether Ramírez would accept Baltimore as a landing spot remains unknown. His agent, Greg Genske, did not return a phone call last night. But, one major league general manager said yesterday, ''Baltimore is pretty good, for what Manny wants." That want, presumably, is privacy. Added the GM, ''If he doesn't go there, where will he go?"

 

That remains a good question. The source with direct knowledge of the discussions between the Sox and Orioles believes the Mets ''still have interest in Manny, but I don't know if there's a direct match."

 

That could mean that if the Sox and Mets wish to renew discussions over Ramírez, they'd have to involve a third team, presumably Tampa Bay.

 

Meanwhile, the Associated Press, citing a team source, said the Orioles agreed to a two-year deal for between $10 million and $12 million with 36-year-old Jeromy Burnitz, who would play left field and reduce the team's need for Ramírez. The source said the deal is pending a physical and was not finalized.

 

The Tejada situation, which has stalled of late, is expected to regain steam in the coming days. The Orioles are expected to spend the rest of the work week contacting teams and asking for best/last offers, with the intention of pulling the trigger on a deal or resolving to hold on to Tejada by sometime next week.

 

Baltimore and the Cubs were working toward a deal last week but those talks have apparently cooled, as Chicago, at last check, had offered injury-prone pitcher Mark Prior as the key chip in a deal, while the Orioles would prefer rugged righthander Carlos Zambrano. The Cubs, as of last week, had told the Orioles that if they dealt Prior in a multiplayer package to Baltimore they'd want lefthander Erik Bedard to be included along with Tejada.

 

That's what makes the Sox appealing, on multiple levels. Tejada, by himself, could fetch a perennial MVP candidate in Ramírez as well as Clement, who might enjoy better success outside of Boston and working with new Baltimore pitching coach Leo Mazzone.

 

Furthermore, if Tejada is moved the Orioles figure to need a marquee presence in the lineup each night to keep fans coming to Camden Yards. The Orioles, who ranked sixth in the majors in average attendance in 2001, have slipped each season since, to 14th last season, and a more precipitous decline could come soon, if Tejada were dealt and the nearby Nationals continue to improve.

 

Meanwhile, former Marlin Alex González, the top shortstop still on the open market, appears unlikely to sign with any team until Tejada is dealt. If Tejada is moved to the Cubs, the Sox and Orioles would both be in need of a shortstop, enhancing the market for González. The 28-year-old González, who brings a spectacular glove but an average bat (he's a lifetime .245 hitter with a .291 on-base percentage), is believed to be seeking a deal of at least two years for about $5 million per season.

 

But indications are that the Sox prefer Tampa Bay shortstop Julio Lugo to González. Lugo is a better offensive presence and could bat leadoff (he hit .295 with a .362 on-base percentage and 39 stolen bases last season). Tejada, meanwhile, is just about unparalleled offensively at his position. He led shortstops last season in doubles (50), home runs (26), and RBIs (98), though his production was down. In 2004, he cranked 34 homers and knocked in 150 runs.

 

The Sox also continue to seek a new home for David Wells, who like Ramírez has asked out of Boston. Sox president and CEO Larry Lucchino, while home for Christmas in San Diego, met with Padres GM Kevin Towers. But even after that meeting nothing was imminent between the clubs, as the Sox continue to canvass other options on the West Coast. Los Angeles and San Diego still appear to be the likeliest landing spots, though there were indications the last couple of days that Arizona, having cleared Troy Glaus's contract off the books, might pursue Wells.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Seattle Wants Papelbon or Lester:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002709354_mari29.html

An East Coast source said the Mariners are offering pitcher Gil Meche as well as center fielder Jeremy Reed, in an effort to obtain one of Boston's prized pitching prospects, Jon Lester (a Puyallup native) or Jonathan Papelbon, in a trade.

 

 

 

...hell no. Gil Meche? Please.

[He Hate Me]

well they've already traded Hanley, so...

[adam123]

no way we give them paplbon ...and lester is better

[Cityofchampions33]

Looks like Seattle had a talk with TB about who to ask for.

[a700hitter]

the mets might need to include milledge to the orioles for this to even be possible.

Is Milledge ML ready?

[riverside sluggers]

well they've already traded Hanley, so...

 

Be that as it may, the Marlins gave Boston a potential ace in Beckett, a gold glove caliber 3rd baseman in Lowell, and a reliable setup man in Mota.

 

Papelbon, rather than Hanley has proven himself in the majors and is already a lock to be in the rotation or in the bullpen as a setup man. Seattle is offering a center fielder who in his first full season, hit just .254 and 3 HRs. And... Gil Meche, who will tarnish any rotation he enters. His home park has been Safeco Field, a pitcher friendly park as they come. The past 2 seasons he has produced ERA's above 5, I dont even want to imagine him at Fenway Park.

 

Simply put: Reed & Meche for Lester or Papelbon is a big lopsided trade proposal in Seattle's favor, and something even the Sox FO would laugh at when they heard the proposal. "If" actually said happen, there will be riots outside of Fenway Park.

[He Hate Me]

Be that as it may, the Marlins gave Boston a potential ace in Beckett, a gold glove caliber 3rd baseman in Lowell, and a reliable setup man in Mota.

 

Papelbon, rather than Hanley has proven himself in the majors and is already a lock to be in the rotation or in the bullpen as a setup man. Seattle is offering a center fielder who in his first full season, hit just .254 and 3 HRs. And... Gil Meche, who will tarnish any rotation he enters. His home park has been Safeco Field, a pitcher friendly park as they come. The past 2 seasons he has produced ERA's above 5, I dont even want to imagine him at Fenway Park.

 

Simply put: Reed & Meche for Lester or Papelbon is a big lopsided trade proposal in Seattle's favor, and something even the Sox FO would laugh at when they heard the proposal. "If" actually said happen, there will be riots outside of Fenway Park.

 

With the way Hanley was touted and given the fact that we been hearing mark Prior's name in trade rumors, do you think it woulda been better to trade for Mark Prior with a package including Hanley?

[Beckett95]

New manny scenario from mlbtraderumors

 

A source close to the Mets organization has supplied me with a possible trade scenario that is being discussed. It's complicated, but I thought I'd put it out there.

 

Mets trade: Aaron Heilman, Cliff Floyd, Victor Diaz, Brian Bannister

Mets get: Manny Ramirez

 

TB trades: Julio Lugo, Joey Gathright

TB receives: Aaron Heilman, Victor Diaz, Bronson Arroyo

 

Red Sox trade: Manny Ramirez, Bronson Arroyo

Red Sox receive: Julio Lugo, Joey Gathright, Cliff Floyd, Brian Bannister

 

fills all of the holes...

 

idk what to think about it

 

Lugo--SS

Loretta--2nd

Ortiz--DH

Floyd--LF

Lowell--3rd

Nixon--RF

Varitek--C

Youkilis--1B

Gathright--CF

 

i dont like Floyd hitting 4th. I think by this point manny has to stay

[riverside sluggers]

With the way Hanley was touted and given the fact that we been hearing mark Prior's name in trade rumors, do you think it woulda been better to trade for Mark Prior with a package including Hanley?

 

That does put me in a conundrum. Beckett or Prior, Id be happy either way, just cant decide on who Id want more in Boston.

 

----------------------------------

 

another trade scenario? ugh. I cant wait until baseball is on my TV again, every weeknight at 7 pm:(

[riverside sluggers]

ok, who runs this mlbtraderumors site?

 

Arroyo would make a great #2 for TB; I've projected him to lead the Red Sox in wins in 2006.

 

Him leading the rotation including Schilling and Beckett, in wins?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

With the way Hanley was touted and given the fact that we been hearing mark Prior's name in trade rumors, do you think it woulda been better to trade for Mark Prior with a package including Hanley?

 

That is a really though question. Mark Prior does pitch in a more difficult stadium than Beckett did. However Beckett was able to win a World Series. On the other hand I really like how Prior performed in the playoffs a few years back.

 

Overall I think there stuff is too close to call. Based on there attitude I have to go with Josh Beckett. He looks like a gamer and someone with a lot of emotion which he can put into the game. I really like Mark Prior but I would like him more if he showed some attitude.

[ORS]

With the way Hanley was touted and given the fact that we been hearing mark Prior's name in trade rumors, do you think it woulda been better to trade for Mark Prior with a package including Hanley?

Beckett and Prior are so similar that I don't think it really matters. Great stuff, good mechanics, similar velocity, high K rates. And, if anyone is worried about Beckett's health, then they have to be terrified of Prior. He was on the DL twice last season for problems with his right elbow. Beckett's blisters will become callouses. Bad elbows are often never the same again.

[example1]

Not in the slightest. I'm happy with Beckett. Their numbers are so similar that the only difference appears to be a) types of injuries each suffers and Beckett has a playoff-MVP under his belt.

[example1]

New manny scenario from mlbtraderumors

 

 

 

fills all of the holes...

 

idk what to think about it

 

I do, this trade sucks.

 

Lugo--SS

Loretta--2nd

Ortiz--DH

Floyd--LF uhhh, no.

Lowell--3rd

Nixon--RF

Varitek--C

Youkilis--1B

Gathright--CF Can the pitchers just hit in the AL, instead of the CF?

 

i dont like Floyd hitting 4th. I think by this point manny has to stay

 

Manny can still go, but not in this deal. I would rather put our minor leaguers in there (Pedroia and Moss/Murphy/Ellsbury) and let Manny either show up or not show up.

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

what does francona being a better manager than dusty baker have to do with mark prior's injury problems??

 

 

because dusty is notorious for leaving his starters out way too long and making them susceptible to injury...and is part of the reason kerry wood has been a mess since he [baker] got there.

[ACL BoSox]

I wouldn't mind seeing a deal that looked something like this...

 

Orioles get:

 

SP Kris Benson (from NYM)

SP Matt Clement (from Bos)

RF Cliff Floyd (from NYM)

IF/OF Aubrey Huff (from TB)

Cash Considerations (from Bos and/or NYM)

 

Devil Rays get:

 

SP Aaron Heilman (from NYM)

SP Brian Bannister (from NYM)

 

Red Sox get:

 

SS Miguel Tejada (from BAL)

CF Lastings Milledge (from NYM)

 

Mets get:

 

LF Manny Ramirez (from BOS)

RP Jorge Julio (from BAL)

 

Something to that extent. Cause at least we're getting some sort of future replacement for Manny.

[elsrbueno]

I understand that all the rumors are just rumors, and that this particular rumor had a third team involved, but the trade idea I liked most went a little something like this:

 

Manny Ramirez to the Cubs for Mark Prior, Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno.

 

If the Cubs then want to try to spin Manny to Baltimore in persuit of Miguel Tejada then so be it. BUT, my 2 cents:

 

Why the Cubs would do it:

The Cubs have been searching for a big bat since they traded Sammy Sosa. Obviously Jeromy Burnitz isn't that big bat, but Manny Ramirez absolutely would be. They're obviously not enamored with Corey Patterson because they demoted him last season and they are not ready to hand the shortstop job to Ronny Cedeno because they were in heavily on Rafael Furcal and now have interest in Tejada. If they can add a bat like Manny Ramirez they can play Neifi Perez at short and get similar offensive output. They get a huge bat without giving up top prospects Rich Hill or Felix Pie.

 

Why the Red Sox would do it:

They're obviously interested in fulfilling Manny's request, and this package is far greater than anything else out there unless Anaheim gets involved. Mark Prior is an ace-caliber pitcher who would be slotted into the #3 spot in Boston. He's still young and despite his injury troubles, he's damn good when he is on the hill. The Red Sox could afford to be careful with him with and prolong his baseball life. At 25 years old, Prior's best years are ahead of him. I'm a big believer that Corey Patterson is due to bust out. He's hugely talented and despite sub-par strike zone judgement, could seriously benefit by a change of scenery and a new batting coach. This guy's a 30-30 threat and is still just 26. Ladies and gentlemen, our new centerfielder. Ronny Cedeno, as I've already said, is more advanced than the prized Hanley Ramirez at the same age. While Hanley barely kept his head above water in AA, Cedeno was putting up decent numbers in AAA. To me that means this guy is more ready, perhaps to step in right now. The Red Sox fill center field, and add a starter and a shortstop candidate without giving up any prospects or starters.

 

This gives them some serious trade ability-- They'll now have 2 wholes, left field and first base, which can be filled via trade because they can trade 2 starting pitchers (Arroyo, Clement, Wells) and possibly even Graffanino.

 

If it were me, I'd trade Wells to the Dodgers unless San Diego starts offering Adrian Gonzalez. LA has so many extra players that just make sense for Boston (Hee Soep Choi, Edwin Jackson, Yhency Brazoban, Jonathan Broxton, possibly even JD Drew if the Dodgers are looking to dump salary. Personally I'd love to send Wells to LA for Edwin Jackson and Yhency Brazoban, two guys who struggled mightily last year but are still young and talented. That gives the Sox another YOUNG arm who can start-- and at worst he's refining his skills in Pawtucket. Brazoban adds some depth to the bullpen, and with Foulke, Seanez and Mota question marks, and Timlin pushing 40, depth is never a bad thing.

 

s***, you could still deal Arroyo for Crisp and Matt Clement for Jeremy Reed (take on Gil Meche if they're dying to get rid of him) and you're rocking a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Prior, Wakefield, Papelbon/Jackson and a bullpen of Foulke, Timlin, Mota, DiNardo, Brazoban with Hansen and Delcarmen starting the season in AAA but available in case of a disaster. If Meche comes from Seattle, put him in the #5 spot in the rotation and that gives you the ability to put Papelbon in the bullpen. That is AMAZING depth in the pitching staff despite trading off 3 starters. The lineup is not as powerful, but is younger and more athletic than in 2005, and let's face facts: How often does the team with the best offense in baseball win anything meaningful? Usually about as often as that team also has a really good pitching staff.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Lowell, Nixon, Varitek, Youkilis, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

IMO-- It's a crapload better than what we have now, and the 2 weaknesses I see are RH power bat and LH reliever. If DiNardo fails you've got Abe Alvarez and possibly even Jon Lester who could fill that role. Give the kids a shot before wasting resources is what I'd do.

 

Getting a RH power bat could prove difficult, but look you have Graffanino without a role, and Youkilis as a main piece to the deal. With Crisp, Patterson, and Reed all in their mid-20s, it wouldn't kill you to add a David Murphy or the like to a deal like that to get a slugger...... Mike Sweeney maybe?

 

I'f you offered Youkilis, Graffanino, and B level prospect for Mike Sweeney it might be enough to convince the Royals to part with him.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Sweeney , Nixon, Varitek, Lowell, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

That's leaps and bounds above what we have now.

[example1]

I understand that all the rumors are just rumors, and that this particular rumor had a third team involved, but the trade idea I liked most went a little something like this:

 

Manny Ramirez to the Cubs for Mark Prior, Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno.

 

If the Cubs then want to try to spin Manny to Baltimore in persuit of Miguel Tejada then so be it. BUT, my 2 cents:

 

Why the Cubs would do it:

The Cubs have been searching for a big bat since they traded Sammy Sosa. Obviously Jeromy Burnitz isn't that big bat, but Manny Ramirez absolutely would be. They're obviously not enamored with Corey Patterson because they demoted him last season and they are not ready to hand the shortstop job to Ronny Cedeno because they were in heavily on Rafael Furcal and now have interest in Tejada. If they can add a bat like Manny Ramirez they can play Neifi Perez at short and get similar offensive output. They get a huge bat without giving up top prospects Rich Hill or Felix Pie.

 

I understand why both teams would want to do this trade, but why in hell would the cubs give up Prior PLUS patterson PLUS Cedano? I imagine that they view Prior as nearly as valuable as Manny, so why give up anyone else? I could see Prior and Patterson, but I imagine they would ask for more than a three for one deal.

Why the Red Sox would do it:

They're obviously interested in fulfilling Manny's request, and this package is far greater than anything else out there unless Anaheim gets involved. Mark Prior is an ace-caliber pitcher who would be slotted into the #3 spot in Boston. He's still young and despite his injury troubles, he's damn good when he is on the hill. The Red Sox could afford to be careful with him with and prolong his baseball life. At 25 years old, Prior's best years are ahead of him. I'm a big believer that Corey Patterson is due to bust out. He's hugely talented and despite sub-par strike zone judgement, could seriously benefit by a change of scenery and a new batting coach. This guy's a 30-30 threat and is still just 26. Ladies and gentlemen, our new centerfielder. Ronny Cedeno, as I've already said, is more advanced than the prized Hanley Ramirez at the same age. While Hanley barely kept his head above water in AA, Cedeno was putting up decent numbers in AAA. To me that means this guy is more ready, perhaps to step in right now. The Red Sox fill center field, and add a starter and a shortstop candidate without giving up any prospects or starters.

 

It would also placate the fanbase in a unique way--changing the conversation basically. Instead of people saying "we need a top notch CF and SS" people might start saying LOOK AT THAT PITCHING STAFF!! Schilling, Beckett, Prior, Papelbon and Wakefield? Wow!

 

This gives them some serious trade ability-- They'll now have 2 wholes, left field and first base, which can be filled via trade because they can trade 2 starting pitchers (Arroyo, Clement, Wells) and possibly even Graffanino.

 

Yup.

 

If it were me, I'd trade Wells to the Dodgers unless San Diego starts offering Adrian Gonzalez. LA has so many extra players that just make sense for Boston (Hee Soep Choi, Edwin Jackson, Yhency Brazoban, Jonathan Broxton, possibly even JD Drew if the Dodgers are looking to dump salary. Personally I'd love to send Wells to LA for Edwin Jackson and Yhency Brazoban, two guys who struggled mightily last year but are still young and talented. That gives the Sox another YOUNG arm who can start-- and at worst he's refining his skills in Pawtucket. Brazoban adds some depth to the bullpen, and with Foulke, Seanez and Mota question marks, and Timlin pushing 40, depth is never a bad thing.

 

Yup, add depth to the bullpen.

 

 

s***, you could still deal Arroyo for Crisp and Matt Clement for Jeremy Reed (take on Gil Meche if they're dying to get rid of him) and you're rocking a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Prior, Wakefield, Papelbon/Jackson and a bullpen of Foulke, Timlin, Mota, DiNardo, Brazoban with Hansen and Delcarmen starting the season in AAA but available in case of a disaster. If Meche comes from Seattle, put him in the #5 spot in the rotation and that gives you the ability to put Papelbon in the bullpen. That is AMAZING depth in the pitching staff despite trading off 3 starters. The lineup is not as powerful, but is younger and more athletic than in 2005, and let's face facts: How often does the team with the best offense in baseball win anything meaningful? Usually about as often as that team also has a really good pitching staff.

 

I lost ya there. I put Papelbon in the rotation before I take Meche. Second, Cleveland isn't stupid. They want Marte for Crisp, not Arroyo. If it was as simple as Arroyo for Crisp then it would be done by now. Third, Seattle isn't dealing Clement for Reed. They're trying to trade Lester or Papelbon for Reed and Meche. No thanks.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Lowell, Nixon, Varitek, Youkilis, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

No crisp without Marte. No Reed without Paps/Lester. But Patterson is a fine 1-2 year replacement before Murphy/Moss/Ellsbury are ready. There is definitely a hole in the #4 spot... HUGE hole. This team would look a lot like the Cubs have looked the past few years... namely, not very good. Ortiz and Lee cancel each other out. Great pitching, not much offense. I worry about that part of it.

 

 

IMO-- It's a crapload better than what we have now, and the 2 weaknesses I see are RH power bat and LH reliever. If DiNardo fails you've got Abe Alvarez and possibly even Jon Lester who could fill that role. Give the kids a shot before wasting resources is what I'd do.

 

Getting a RH power bat could prove difficult, but look you have Graffanino without a role, and Youkilis as a main piece to the deal. With Crisp, Patterson, and Reed all in their mid-20s, it wouldn't kill you to add a David Murphy or the like to a deal like that to get a slugger...... Mike Sweeney maybe?

 

Its a stretch. Mostly I would say the sox could wait a year and make a hard push for someone via FA, as the above team isn't TOO expensive.

 

I'f you offered Youkilis, Graffanino, and B level prospect for Mike Sweeney it might be enough to convince the Royals to part with him.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Sweeney , Nixon, Varitek, Lowell, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

That's leaps and bounds above what we have now.

 

Perhaps. Good post.

[riverside sluggers]

I really dont like Meche, he hasnt shown anything to even be a proven #5 starter. The last two seasons has produced ERA's of above 5, and his home park is SafeCo field, a pitcher friendly park. I shudder thinking of him pitching half or more of his games at Fenway Park.

 

Im also conifent going into the season with Youk as our everyday 1st baseman. He hasnt really shown to be an error threat at all; theres a reason why he's called an OBP machine; barely strikes out; a full year of starting will increase hitting skills and might be able to mash somewhere from 15 - 20 Hrs.

[riverside sluggers]

This is coming from the New York Daily news, supposedly gaining buzz. I dont know about this rumored trade, I just see big things in Marte calling Fenway his home.

 

4-way Manny frenzy

Execs buzzing over potential Mets megadeal

BY BILL MADDEN

and ANTHONY McCARRON

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITERS

 

The Mets have been engaged in ongoing talks with the Devil Rays about reliever Danys Baez, but, according to multiple baseball sources, those discussions could bloom into a blockbuster four-team trade scenario in which Manny Ramirez winds up at Shea and similarly disgruntled slugger Miguel Tejada lands in Boston.

 

According to sources, both the Red Sox and Orioles have resigned themselves to accommodating the trade requests of Ramirez and Tejada, who want off of their respective teams. But since the Orioles have signed Jeromy Burnitz to complete their outfield, they may not have a match with the Red Sox in a straight-up Tejada-for-Ramirez deal, so several baseball executives said they'd have to get other teams involved. That's where the Mets and Devil Rays come in.

 

The basics of the four-team deal that had the baseball executives buzzing yesterday and would appear to satisfy the needs of all four clubs would have Tejada and Tampa Bay's Joey Gathright going to the Red Sox to fill Boston's holes at shortstop and center field. Ramirez and Baez would go to the Mets, giving them one of the game's best sluggers and a setup man. The Orioles would satisfy their need at shortstop by getting Julio Lugo from Tampa Bay and add pitching by getting Matt Clement from Boston and possibly Kris Benson from the Mets.

 

The Devil Rays, who have always been difficult to deal with, especially in complicated transactions, are seeking top prospects and young pitching and would be satisfied in that regard by getting third baseman Andy Marte from Boston and Jae Seo and Aaron Heilman from the Mets. In addition, the Mets would send Kaz Matsui to Tampa to give the D-Rays a stopgap shortstop replacement until prospect B.J. Upton is ready.

 

An executive with one of the teams called the four-team scenario far-fetched, but an official with another of the teams said he expected to broach such talks. The Mets and GM Omar Minaya long have coveted Ramirez, a nine-time All-Star. Ramirez has said he wants to leave Boston and the Mets are one of the few clubs in baseball that could take on all or part of his monster salary - Ramirez is due $57 million over the next three seasons. Money, of course, could complicate the deal. In addition to Ramirez's hefty price tag, Tejada is owed $48 million and part of a $12 million signing bonus for the next four years.

 

Independently, the Mets have been talking for weeks with the Devil Rays about Baez, who was 5-4 with a 2.86 ERA and 41 saves as a closer last season. Seo and Heilman have been mentioned as possible matches in a potential one-for-one deal, but two Mets sources said yesterday they would "absolutely" not part with Heilman for Baez. However, if talks expand and include bringing Ramirez to the Mets, Heilman might have to be sacrificed.

 

If the Mets got Baez, he would set up for new closer Billy Wagner. But Baez doesn't seem to want to switch jobs. In an interview yesterday with the St. Petersburg Times, he said, "I don't know if I want to be a setup guy. I want to be a closer. "But if they trade me, I don't have a choice. If they want me to be a setup guy, that's what I'll do."

[ACL BoSox]

If we did that deal, would we be getting anything else besides Tejada? I mean, you don't exactly just throw in Marte...

[example1]

If we did that deal, would we be getting anything else besides Tejada? I mean, you don't exactly just throw in Marte...

 

Well, according to the article that you replied to, it would be Joey Gathright who, in everyone's opinion, is the next Willie Mays

 

The sox should get someone else in the deal. Tejada is as valuable as Manny according to VORP/WARP etc., but Gathright is likely nowhere near Marte. I could see Shoppach for Gathright, or even Shoppach and Abe Alvarez, but Tampa turned down a deal for Marte already so they can just suck it.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I dont think thats a good trade for the Sox. Gathright is pretty overrated. Getting Gathright doesnt warrent giving up Marte.

[jsinger121]

the red sox are not going to give up marte for an outfielder that can't hit. tampa bay is vastly overrating gathright. hes not that good. he couldn't even crack their starting lineup. players like gathright are not worth marte. tampa bay just keeps on coming up with ridiculous demands for their players. they should just shut up and take what they can get.

[mosox]

Even if this rumor is true, I doubt the Rays go through with it given their history.

[ksushi]

Why does everyone dislike Gathwright? How old is he?

[jimmycarter05]

I understand that all the rumors are just rumors, and that this particular rumor had a third team involved, but the trade idea I liked most went a little something like this:

 

Manny Ramirez to the Cubs for Mark Prior, Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno.

 

If the Cubs then want to try to spin Manny to Baltimore in persuit of Miguel Tejada then so be it. BUT, my 2 cents:

 

Why the Cubs would do it:

The Cubs have been searching for a big bat since they traded Sammy Sosa. Obviously Jeromy Burnitz isn't that big bat, but Manny Ramirez absolutely would be. They're obviously not enamored with Corey Patterson because they demoted him last season and they are not ready to hand the shortstop job to Ronny Cedeno because they were in heavily on Rafael Furcal and now have interest in Tejada. If they can add a bat like Manny Ramirez they can play Neifi Perez at short and get similar offensive output. They get a huge bat without giving up top prospects Rich Hill or Felix Pie.

 

Why the Red Sox would do it:

They're obviously interested in fulfilling Manny's request, and this package is far greater than anything else out there unless Anaheim gets involved. Mark Prior is an ace-caliber pitcher who would be slotted into the #3 spot in Boston. He's still young and despite his injury troubles, he's damn good when he is on the hill. The Red Sox could afford to be careful with him with and prolong his baseball life. At 25 years old, Prior's best years are ahead of him. I'm a big believer that Corey Patterson is due to bust out. He's hugely talented and despite sub-par strike zone judgement, could seriously benefit by a change of scenery and a new batting coach. This guy's a 30-30 threat and is still just 26. Ladies and gentlemen, our new centerfielder. Ronny Cedeno, as I've already said, is more advanced than the prized Hanley Ramirez at the same age. While Hanley barely kept his head above water in AA, Cedeno was putting up decent numbers in AAA. To me that means this guy is more ready, perhaps to step in right now. The Red Sox fill center field, and add a starter and a shortstop candidate without giving up any prospects or starters.

 

This gives them some serious trade ability-- They'll now have 2 wholes, left field and first base, which can be filled via trade because they can trade 2 starting pitchers (Arroyo, Clement, Wells) and possibly even Graffanino.

 

If it were me, I'd trade Wells to the Dodgers unless San Diego starts offering Adrian Gonzalez. LA has so many extra players that just make sense for Boston (Hee Soep Choi, Edwin Jackson, Yhency Brazoban, Jonathan Broxton, possibly even JD Drew if the Dodgers are looking to dump salary. Personally I'd love to send Wells to LA for Edwin Jackson and Yhency Brazoban, two guys who struggled mightily last year but are still young and talented. That gives the Sox another YOUNG arm who can start-- and at worst he's refining his skills in Pawtucket. Brazoban adds some depth to the bullpen, and with Foulke, Seanez and Mota question marks, and Timlin pushing 40, depth is never a bad thing.

 

s***, you could still deal Arroyo for Crisp and Matt Clement for Jeremy Reed (take on Gil Meche if they're dying to get rid of him) and you're rocking a rotation of Schilling, Beckett, Prior, Wakefield, Papelbon/Jackson and a bullpen of Foulke, Timlin, Mota, DiNardo, Brazoban with Hansen and Delcarmen starting the season in AAA but available in case of a disaster. If Meche comes from Seattle, put him in the #5 spot in the rotation and that gives you the ability to put Papelbon in the bullpen. That is AMAZING depth in the pitching staff despite trading off 3 starters. The lineup is not as powerful, but is younger and more athletic than in 2005, and let's face facts: How often does the team with the best offense in baseball win anything meaningful? Usually about as often as that team also has a really good pitching staff.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Lowell, Nixon, Varitek, Youkilis, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

IMO-- It's a crapload better than what we have now, and the 2 weaknesses I see are RH power bat and LH reliever. If DiNardo fails you've got Abe Alvarez and possibly even Jon Lester who could fill that role. Give the kids a shot before wasting resources is what I'd do.

 

Getting a RH power bat could prove difficult, but look you have Graffanino without a role, and Youkilis as a main piece to the deal. With Crisp, Patterson, and Reed all in their mid-20s, it wouldn't kill you to add a David Murphy or the like to a deal like that to get a slugger...... Mike Sweeney maybe?

 

I'f you offered Youkilis, Graffanino, and B level prospect for Mike Sweeney it might be enough to convince the Royals to part with him.

 

Lineup: Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Sweeney , Nixon, Varitek, Lowell, Patterson/Reed, Cedeno

 

That's leaps and bounds above what we have now.

 

Great post, elbseruo, but I think we would have to add two B level prospects to get that trade done and take all of Sweeny's salary(roughly 11 million), I still have some questions about your trade though, what about the money, would we have to pay some of Manny's salary still and would we take all of Sweeny's salary?