Barry Zito to Red Sox?

[26 to 6]

Whats everyones infatuation with Marte? Honestly. Has he done anything yet to justify this "BEST PROSPECT EVER LIKE OMG" label?

He hasnt done anything for the Red Sox, but im sure he didnt get that distinction while in the Braves system just sucking his thumb or bobbing for apples. Im sure he did something. Looked pretty good to me last year.

[example1]

"LIKE OMG"??? Seriously?

 

Are you trying to belittle everyone on this site who happens to think Andy Marte is a good prospect by making us sound like a bunch of valley girls? That's weird.

[guapo34]

Whats everyones infatuation with Marte? Honestly. Has he done anything yet to justify this "BEST PROSPECT EVER LIKE OMG" label?

 

In a pitchers league in a pitchers park he put up a .506 slugging % in AAA while being young for the league along with a .372 obp while playing good defense.

[a700hitter]

There has been a lot of hype over this guy. How many people of have seen him play? Yet, we have strong opinions that we don't want him included in various trades. I think it is a legitimate to ask what these strong opinions are based upon. I can hardly wait to see this guy in ST, although it will be very difficult for the kid to live up to the hype.

[bigpappi2004]

The Red Sox traded their so-called "BEST PROSPECT" to the marlins. I've heard a lot about Marte, but when the Sox made the renteria trade, I was like "Wow this sucks!"

 

What about sending like Wells Marte and Clement to the A's for a possible Jay Payton Barry Zito deal?

[elsrbueno]

I think people's infatuation with Andy Marte is two-fold.

 

#1: They can't be infatuated with Hanley Ramirez anymore because he's a Marlin.

#2: We traded our starting shortstop for him straight up. He's got to be good, right?

 

Personally I think it's silly to say about ANYONE "We're not trading him no matter what." I think there's a price for every player, and if a team meets that price, why the hell not?

 

I have never seen the man play. It's true. He does have a lot of things working in his favor though:

 

He's young. He's cheap. At the same age as the beloved Hanley Ramirez he put up BETTER numbers in a harder league. As a right handed run producing corner infielder he has some serious value.

 

Go back and look at my posts. I have been one of the biggest "don't trade Marte" supporters but usually that's attached with a specific trade in mind.

 

Is Lugo worth Marte? No. Is Lugo AND Gathright worth Marte? No.

 

Is Jeremy Reed worth Marte? Not in my mind.

 

Is Coco Crisp worth Marte AND Mota? Absolutely not.

 

The key question for this thread: Is Barry Zito worth Andy Marte? In the right trade, maybe. I don't see Clement, Wells, and Marte for Payton and Zito. Personally I think that's too much. I'd much rather talk about sending Youk to Oakland and throw Marte into the first base platoon.

[DrewDaGreat]

The Red Sox traded their so-called "BEST PROSPECT" to the marlins. I've heard a lot about Marte, but when the Sox made the renteria trade, I was like "Wow this sucks!"

 

What about sending like Wells Marte and Clement to the A's for a possible Jay Payton Barry Zito deal?

 

 

Hanley wasn't even our best middle infield prospect.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Hanley wasn't even our best middle infield prospect.

 

He had the highest ceiling of our infield prospects but certainly Dustin Pedroia was showing more production which is all that counts. Its up to Hanley to really show his talent but so far he hasn't really done it.

[jsinger121]

The Red Sox probably sold high on Hanley Ramirez. Great tools guy but at some point you need to back up all those tools with statistics and he has yet to do it.

[Ray10]

To be honest I think Oakland would want more than that. The would want a number one pitching prospect such as Papelbon, Lester or even Hansen who is going to be a top notch closer some day in the big leagues to go along with Youklis Marte and Arroyo if they are going to deal away their best pitcher.

[krazeebrainz]

I think that Barry Zito's best years are behind him. for starters, the guy is a surfer and would probably suffer mentally if he pitched on the east coast. Secondly, he is a space cadet...He definitely has a few screws loose. With this being said, I think that he would have a difficult time in Boston. I just can't see him being receptive to the scrutiny of Boston/New England media.

 

It just seems as though people have learned how to hit him. Because his fastball is typically in the mid-to-high 80s, you can sit on it. Though his curve ball remains incredible, he has had some control issues which forces him to utilize his fastball on a more consistent basis. This has definitely made him more hittable.

 

On that note, I think that he would be a decent pick-up at best. I just think that you'd have to give up too much for a pitcher that seems to have limited upside. I'd rather see the Sox shop around and leave Zito in Oakland.

 

-krazeebrainz

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Atlanta got Tim Hudson for Charles Thomas, Juan Cruz, and Dan Meyer

 

St. Louis got Mark Mulder for Dan Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton

 

My own opinion is that Tim Hudson is the best followed by Mark Mulder then Barry Zito. All three are good so I would expect Oakland to ask for something along those lines. Unfortunatly I don't think our prospects match up. The players involved in past trades are not equal to the talent of Andy Marte. Both Jonathan Papelbon and Jon Lester have a better arsenal of pitches and with time have a chance to be better than Zito so that is not a match. Craig Hansen is a special case because we saw what Houston Street was capable of....some scouts feel Hansen has better stuff. Dustin Pedroia could be moved but why would Oakland want him when they have Bobby Crosby and Mark Ellis?

 

If we were to deal Andy Marte here is what I suggest:

 

Barry Zito and Mark Kotsay for Andy Marte and Matt Clement

[Cityofchampions33]

the guy is a surfer and would probably suffer mentally if he pitched on the east coast. Secondly, he is a space cadet...He definitely has a few screws loose. With this being said, I think that he would have a difficult time in Boston. I just can't see him being receptive to the scrutiny of Boston/New England media.

 

Zito attends/attended the Berklee College of Music so he's been here already. Also he has been known to want to come to Boston for reasons I cannot remember. Also the media is made to be more relentless than it really is. Players have gotten away with not talking to the media and getting respect off of pure talent, ala Manny (minus his stupidity). Also he is not exactly what i would call a "space cadet", a space cadet is more along the lines of Carl Everett. As for the surfing issue, he can surf on the East Coast also, we got an ocean here too. Even if he doesn't surf here, he can go to the West Coast during the Offseason.

[krazeebrainz]

Granted, we do have the ocean on the east coast, but the east coast isn't exactly known as "surfing country." I also remember hearing that he often surfs between starts to clear his head.

 

On a different note, the only starting Oakland pitcher that I would be willing to trade for is Rich Harden. I think that the benefit-to-cost ratio for Zito just doesn't make sense for the Sox. If I am going to give-up good, young talent then I'd rather get a young kid on the rise as opposed to one that is seemingly on his way down.

 

-krazeebrainz

[kreinbihl34]

I for one thinkwe should. First trade a couple a low spects for Craig Wilson. Turn around trade him and youk to A's for Zito. A's get a power corner outfeilder and a ok young player. We get one of the best left handers in beaseball.

[a700hitter]

I for one thinkwe should. First trade a couple a low spects for Craig Wilson. Turn around trade him and youk to A's for Zito. A's get a power corner outfeilder and a ok young player. We get one of the best left handers in beaseball.

I like the idea of getting Craig Wilson to be a 4th outfielder and the right handed complement to Nixon. Neither Wilson nor Youk would seem to be needed by the A's. They are set at 1B and in the OF. Plus, the Sox would create another hole at 1B if they trade Youk.

[krazeebrainz]

Here are some of Zito's cummulative E.R.A.s against various teams in the A.L.from 2005

vs. BAL 5.11 vs. NYY 7.59

vs. SEA 2.63 vs. BOS 5.73

vs. TEX 4.29 vs. LAA 2.68

vs. ATL 5.40 vs. CWS 2.91

vs. WAS 3.00 vs. CLE 4.42

vs. PHI 7.50 vs. DET 1.46

vs. SF 2.45 vs. KC 2.57

vs. TB 7.84 vs. MIN 1.26

 

What strikes me is that against teams with slightly better to noteworthy offenses, he really didn't do all that well. The only impressive teams that he threw well against were the Angels and the White Sox.

 

Plus, he hasn't thrown exceptionally well at Fenway Park. Granted, he was facing a potent Red Sox lineup that traditionally does well at home but isn't good pitching supposed to fare well against good hitting?

 

Just some thoughts,

 

-krazeebrainz:dunno:

[MANNYHOF24]

NYY 7.59:thumbdown

 

thats not what we need

[Cityofchampions33]

7.8 ERA vs. the Rays? No thanks

[spartans]

it wont happen... but zito is nasty.

 

 

if we do that tho, we pick up ANOTHER pitcher and lose ANOTHER 1B

 

We would end up with 8 Starting Pitchers and still no solid SS, no solid 1B, and no solid CF. Were pretty set on pitching. Maybee some bullpen additions, but not another sp

[KeepTheFaith1229]

it wont happen... but zito is nasty.

 

 

if we do that tho, we pick up ANOTHER pitcher and lose ANOTHER 1B

 

We would end up with 8 Starting Pitchers and still no solid SS, no solid 1B, and no solid CF. Were pretty set on pitching. Maybee some bullpen additions, but not another sp

 

 

Actually, we're pretty set in the bullpen.

[ksushi]

Actually, you can't really ever get enough pitching, and I would say Alex Cora is about as capable a defensive SS as any. Offense being a non-issue at that position I think we need CFer and we might be ok to go. 1B is also taken care of as Youk has plus hands over on that corner too. CF is all we need at the moment and with our run on pitching, we'll likely be able to acquire one.

 

Zito is a bit much though, I agree. Beane is going to hold out for a Lester or a Papelbon if he decides to deal with the sox. Andy Marte really isn't the Billy Beane type, but he does love youkilis. Personally, I don't see the sense in giving up a pitching prospect the caliber which beane will ask for in a Zito trade. Zito is bad against good teams and very good against the bad ones as shown in krazees nice splits up a ways. I'll pass on this.

 

My friend dave is a big numbers nerd and he was talking to me a little while ago about a stat in baseball prospectus called 'stuff' Its basically every pitching stat combined into one and it comes out with one convient little number that gives you a pretty accurate judge of how effective the pitcher is. I don't know something like that, but its mostly used for minor league prospects. A 'stuff' rating of 25 is really good, 30 is can't miss. Jon Lester has a 35. Thats all i know about it, but thats awesome. No way do I give that up for Zito.

[krazeebrainz]

I totally agree. The cost-to-aquisition ratio if we were to aquire Zito would be far too great. If we deal Papelbon or Lester, it is going to have to be for someone that is young, proven and ultimately a future HOF-type ball player.

 

Does Curt Schilling for Mike Boddiker (1988) ring a bell? Keep the young talent and pass on those high-priced potentially good ball players. Like I said before, the only Oakland starter that I would have any interest in is Rich Harden...This kid had a 2.53 ERA and struck-out 121 in 128 innings and is only 25 years old...Not too shabby.

 

-krazeebrainz

[elsrbueno]

I totally agree. The cost-to-aquisition ratio if we were to aquire Zito would be far too great. If we deal Papelbon or Lester, it is going to have to be for someone that is young, proven and ultimately a future HOF-type ball player.

 

Does Curt Schilling for Mike Boddiker (1988) ring a bell? Keep the young talent and pass on those high-priced potentially good ball players. Like I said before, the only Oakland starter that I would have any interest in is Rich Harden...This kid had a 2.53 ERA and struck-out 121 in 128 innings and is only 25 years old...Not too shabby.

 

-krazeebrainz

 

Does Carl Pavano and Tony Armas for Pedro Martinez ring a bell?

 

Do the names Brian Rose and Juan Pena ring bells?

 

Those are just the names that come off the top of my head. For every Jeff Bagwell or Curt Schilling trade there's at least one trade that makes absolute sense and trading young (unproven) guys doesn't kill you.

 

Like I said earlier in this thread a blanket "don't trade young guys" statement doesn't really work. As far as Barry Zito goes, I wouldn't be surprised if Jon Papelbon is just as good as him this year, and there's a pretty good chance Jon Lester is as good in a couple years. With 7 starters (counting Papelbon) on the club already, it wouldn't make sense to me to trade for Zito.... The fact that he sucks against all the AL East teams (Baltimore, NY, Tampa, and Boston) is certainly an unsettling fact.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

I totally agree. The cost-to-aquisition ratio if we were to aquire Zito would be far too great. If we deal Papelbon or Lester, it is going to have to be for someone that is young, proven and ultimately a future HOF-type ball player.

 

I couldn't agree with you more...Youk is expendable I think. And I think the Sox think so too. As far as Zito goes, I don't think he's deteriorating...but I've said from the very start that it was only a matter of time until big time hitters start waiting on that curve and absolutley housing it. To be honest, I kind of see the same from Foulke. I don't think the change is as easy to read out of the hand as Zito's hook, but I don't think there's enough of a velocity difference between Foulke's heater and his change to have it remain an effect outpitch for years to come.

 

As far as Delcarmen and Lester go...I'd give them up for Harden but not for Zito. One of them, that is. I'd do one of them and Youk for Harden. The kid's tearing it up at 25...I can't think of really, well, anything to be more excited about then having Harden, Beckett, and Paps in the same rotation. It'd give the Sox the best young pitching rotation in the game, hands down. And really, at 25, you can still be considered a prospect because most guys don't hit their potential until 28-29, so losing one of our big ones would kind of be a wash.

 

A real out of left field thought...what's Florida's stance on Dontrelle? I'd imagine if they haven't dealt him yet, they're pretty intent on keeping him. But it seems weird that pretty much EVERYONE else in Miami would be on the trading block and the cutting board except him.

 

And another thing, I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for this, I just don't know what it is. What's with Miguel Cabrera signing for $472,000? What's the story behind this, because obviously he's worth far more then that...

[ORS]

And another thing, I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for this, I just don't know what it is. What's with Miguel Cabrera signing for $472,000? What's the story behind this, because obviously he's worth far more then that...

Next year is Cabrera's first arbitration year. He'll get big bucks then and truck-loads after three years of arbitration when he hits free-agency. If Florida is still in penny-pinch mode next offseason, I can see him getting dealt, but it will take 3-4 very good prospects to get him IMO.

[god is a redsox FAN]

I think this rumor here cuts the cake. No way is zitto coming to boston

[example1]

I hate it when old threads come back to life for no reason!

[Cityofchampions33]

why is it a bad thing?

[ksushi]

Its an annoying thing sort of, not much of a big deal.