Who do we keep, who do we trade ?

[ksushi]

but another fact is that you can't just sit a guy who should be starting somewhere for the next three years just because you can, it doesnt make sense to have that value sitting on your bench when you can take it and put it to better use and acquire production. Shoppach isnt part of the big picture and when you have a farm system like ours you can afford to part with young blood, and guess what, hes the first name on the chopping block.

[guapo34]

Three years is too long to leave shoppach in the minors. If he was our Catcher of the future then you don't give Tek 4 years last offseason. He excelled at AAA this year. I'd like to think we can get good value if we moved him, and worry about our next catcher later.

 

I also think we should trade Hanley. Remember reading somewhere his numbers are fairly similar to Donnie Sadlers at the same age. I know there are guys who became stars that also put up similar numbers, but Hanley has yet to hit the ball like people said he would. If his value is as high as it seems, I'd move him.

[ksushi]

Well, they say he hasnt hit this year simply because Hanley is bored and disinterested with AA and maybe the minor leagues in general. I think he sees being in AA as kind of a slap in the face. In the Futures All Star game he played great, he steps up his play to match the level of competition, I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of hitting .260 in the major leagues right now. He's a quality player. I don't think that they could get fair value for him considering how high his ceiling is, but i would trade him for the right price. A good young starter and a reliever is my price. So basically I wouldn't trade him cause no one would give that.

[ksushi]

Well, they say he hasnt hit this year simply because Hanley is bored and disinterested with AA and maybe the minor leagues in general. I think he sees being in AA as kind of a slap in the face. In the Futures All Star game he played great, he steps up his play to match the level of competition, I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of hitting .260 in the major leagues right now. He's a quality player. I don't think that they could get fair value for him considering how high his ceiling is, but i would trade him for the right price. A good young starter and a reliever is my price. So basically I wouldn't trade him cause no one would give that.

[jimmycarter05]

Well, they say he hasnt hit this year simply because Hanley is bored and disinterested with AA and maybe the minor leagues in general. I think he sees being in AA as kind of a slap in the face. In the Futures All Star game he played great, he steps up his play to match the level of competition, I wouldn't be surprised if he was capable of hitting .260 in the major leagues right now. He's a quality player. I don't think that they could get fair value for him considering how high his ceiling is, but i would trade him for the right price. A good young starter and a reliever is my price. So basically I wouldn't trade him cause no one would give that.

 

i like getting chad tracey for him

[Cityofchampions33]

Don't trade Hanley just yet, he's only 21, unless youv'e all forgotten, if he stays interested then he should develop just fine, i say start him at AAA, and see how he does, if he does good then rent may be seeing his job slowly start to slip away.

[ksushi]

Chad Tracey? ... you're kidding. Why trade a guy who could be a franchise player for a guy who is... well, chad tracey.

 

 

(Rent said he'd move to 2nd if hanley came up, so rents job isnt in trouble hes a good player hes not as bad as his last year was)

[riverside sluggers]

i like getting chad tracey for him

 

that makes no sense because I believe Hanley is one of the Sox's "untouchables" prospects. He is in their future. Besides when sox trade for a 1st baseman, the likely candidates to be traded off are Arroyo, Alvarez, and Shoppach or Stern

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

that makes no sense because I believe Hanley is one of the Sox's "untouchables" prospects. He is in their future. Besides when sox trade for a 1st baseman, the likely candidates to be traded off are Arroyo, Alvarez, and Shoppach or Stern

 

I agree. It does the Red Sox no good to trade a top prospect for another teams top prospect. Hanley has the ability to be a fantastic player, come up through the Sox system, and be comfortable with his surroundings that will allow him to produce more. Look at players such as Nomar Garciappara and Trot Nixon. I feel that players who stay with a team and feel a bond with the team will enhance there play and become better players in the end. One thing the Sox have not had in some time now.

[ksushi]

Chad Tracey especially, why give up "untouchables" like anibal sanchez and hanley ramierez for him? especially sanchez since young pitching is so hard to come by

[Cityofchampions33]

Well, there is a possibility we could get a more proven pitcher for any of our top guys. Basically give away future for slightly less future from a team that obviously won't win. In my example, the Tigers, I wouldn't mind giving up Sanchez and Alvarez/Shoppach for Bonderman. Not saying it's gunna even be given thought, just an idea. I preferably would not trade away spects, we've done such a good job gettin back here and theres still room to improve. BTW, Hanley's only 21, he aint goin nowhere.

[riverside sluggers]

id only aprrove sox of deal of Sanchez, Alvarez and Shoppach if it meant to get the Phillies touted 1st baseman Ryan Howard, who has drawn some comparisons to Ortiz in his early days. Not likely it will happen though, Philly knows theyd be wrong to give him up. but its just a thought of mine.

[ksushi]

but if your philly why would you ever give howard away? If your philly and your trade howard (very unlikely but what if...) they would need in return an ace of tim hudson/chris carpenter quality no older then 30 years old, two serious serious prospects like a Lester or a Hanley or a Brandon Wood or a Lastings Milledge, and a high end utility player. You don't give howard away for anything less then that. Hes 25, swings a great stick and is going to be very good for years to come, probably a franchise guy. If the phillies wanted to do sanchez shoppach and arroyo for him I would do it in a second, i'd give them lucchinos wife if they wanted her too.

[Cityofchampions33]

but if your philly why would you ever give howard away? If your philly and your trade howard (very unlikely but what if...) they would need in return an ace of tim hudson/chris carpenter quality no older then 30 years old, two serious serious prospects like a Lester or a Hanley or a Brandon Wood or a Lastings Milledge, and a high end utility player. You don't give howard away for anything less then that. Hes 25, swings a great stick and is going to be very good for years to come, probably a franchise guy. If the phillies wanted to do sanchez shoppach and arroyo for him I would do it in a second, i'd give them lucchinos wife if they wanted her too.

 

Somebody's a tad to literal

 

id only aprrove sox of deal of Sanchez, Alvarez and Shoppach if it meant to get the Phillies touted 1st baseman Ryan Howard, who has drawn some comparisons to Ortiz in his early days. Not likely it will happen though, Philly knows theyd be wrong to give him up. but its just a thought of mine.

[ksushi]

(who cares)...

[guapo34]

but if your philly why would you ever give howard away? If your philly and your trade howard (very unlikely but what if...) they would need in return an ace of tim hudson/chris carpenter quality no older then 30 years old, two serious serious prospects like a Lester or a Hanley or a Brandon Wood or a Lastings Milledge, and a high end utility player. You don't give howard away for anything less then that. Hes 25, swings a great stick and is going to be very good for years to come, probably a franchise guy. If the phillies wanted to do sanchez shoppach and arroyo for him I would do it in a second, i'd give them lucchinos wife if they wanted her too.

 

 

Jim Thome makes 14 million a year. The red sox have had trouble trading Manny and his 20/yr contract, and Manny is at least a top 5 hitter in the american league every year. Thome hit all of 7 home runs last year. They need to trade either him or Howard. You can't sit Thome on the bench for 14 million and you can't sit Howard when you could move him for quality talent. No one is giving an ace young pitcher for him because there simply aren't many of them. An ace young pitcher is far more valuable than a young stud first basemen. I think its definately possible they trade him for two top prospects. If the Sox don't at least offer a package like Hanley and Anibel Sanchez I'd be disapointed.

[riverside sluggers]

I really dont think trading hanley is at all in the cards. Hanley is one of the Sox's untouchables along with Papelbon, DelCarmen, Lester, Hansen, Bucholz, Ellisbury. Im sure there are others as well. My thoughts is that he is set to eventually take the shortstop position, but he is also capable of playing the outfield so center is an option as well.

[ksushi]

I dont think Bucholz and Ellsbury are untouchable at all. I think Sanchez is.

 

And yes, the phills would definetly sit thome, DFA him, or trade him for next to nothing. They won't ever trade Howard because their asking price would never be met. I hope the sox don't offer Sanchez, its not worth it. Ace pitchers are hard to come by and this guy could be one, I'd rather take my chances on him then trade him for a power hitting first basemen that come a dime a dozen.

[guapo34]

I dont think Bucholz and Ellsbury are untouchable at all. I think Sanchez is.

 

And yes, the phills would definetly sit thome, DFA him, or trade him for next to nothing. They won't ever trade Howard because their asking price would never be met. I hope the sox don't offer Sanchez, its not worth it. Ace pitchers are hard to come by and this guy could be one, I'd rather take my chances on him then trade him for a power hitting first basemen that come a dime a dozen.

 

 

So you think it would take an ace pitcher 2 prime prospects and a "super utility player" to get Howard. If you were the phillies GM you wouldn't trade him for anything less. BUT you won't trade Sanchez for him because hw could be an ace pitcher??? Of course if you think a healthy Jim Thome might sit on the Phillies bench next year maybe this isn't worth debating.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I dont think Bucholz and Ellsbury are untouchable at all. I think Sanchez is.

 

Hard to say until they play a season. We may be talking about Buccholz in the same breath with Lester, Papelbon, and Sanchez next season. He has a great arsenal or pitches and he could dominate in Portland by next season. I didn't hear a ton about Sanchez until this season got moving.

 

Ellsbury was one of the best players in the NCAA last season. He did nothing but play great when he showed up for us. Again if he goes to Portland with a batting average over .300 and an OBP around .400....suddenly this kid has the makings of a star lead off hitter. Not to mention he is supposed to be a great club house guy and a leader. Two things you can't teach a player.

 

....really I don't like trading any of these guys until they develop a little more and you get a better idea of how far they can take there talent. Last season we had 1st rounders of Ellsbury, Hansen, Buccholz, Bowden, and Lowrie. 1 of the 5 will be on the team next season with hopefully 2-3 others in Portland. I'm not ready to give up any of them yet.

[ORS]

Ellsbury, Buccholz, and Lowrie all played short-A in Lowell. I don't think any of the them played well enough to skip both high-A and low-A. I think Wilmington is more likely where they start the year, with promotions if they are really producing 2-months into the season. Bowden only pitched a handful of innings in the GCL, so I can see him starting the year in Greenville.

[CrespoBlows]

I dont think Bucholz and Ellsbury are untouchable at all. I think Sanchez is.

 

Actually they are, for now at least. Neither of them can be traded until the draft.

[example1]

Ellisbury should end up being a very good player. He's slightly cocky, very fast, a good fielder with a good OBP. He's also a natural leader in a natural leader's position.

 

While I believe he will start at Wilmington (A), I imagine he'll be at AA by the end of the year. I'm sure the sox are thinking about a Damon deal for 7 years or whatever and just cringing. From what I could gather from paying attention to Oregon State this year (I live in Portland, Oregon), he was a great player in college; not as great as Pedroia at ASU was but overall he was seen as an excellent tools guy. Get's on base, makes things happen. I think the Damon comparisons are valid. He could end up being better than Damon, who knows.

[GabeKaplerluver19]

we gotta keep Jeff Bailey!

[Cityofchampions33]

Bowden's another good pitcher comin up with a high ceiling, jesus, they're poopin up all over the place now, whatever we're doin in the drafts must be workin, and we're just now begining to reep the rewards.

[ahhchon]

Bowden's another good pitcher comin up with a high ceiling, jesus, they're poopin up all over the place now, whatever we're doin in the drafts must be workin, and we're just now begining to reep the rewards.

 

that's because we have guys like bill james on our senior advisor staff instead of "old school" scouts who don't know anything.

 

john

[ksushi]

Actually they are, for now at least. Neither of them can be traded until the draft.

 

 

I'm well aware of the rules when it comes to trading draftees, but once they are elligible to be dealt, I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Hansen would be a guy in that draft to be considered untouchable, not bucholz.

 

Another hot prospect in the sox system: Tommy Hottovy. Amazing stuff had some health issues last year but a very very high ceiling on him

[riverside sluggers]

it seems by now, these prospects of ours wont/shouldnt even cross the thoughts of the Sox Front Office

 

Jonathan Papelbon, Jon Lester, Craig Hansen, Manny DelCarmen, Edgar Martinez, Jacoby Ellisbury. As well as Brandon Moss or David Murphy, look for one of them to be considered to take over right field in 2007.

[MANNYHOF24]

If the front office traded away Papelbon or Hansen i would probally jump off a bridge

[Cityofchampions33]

We have a pretty damn good future team and this is just off teh top of my head

 

C- Shoppach?

1B- Bladgerdon?

2B- Lowrie

3B- Marte

SS- Pedroia

OF- Murton

OF- Ellisbury

OF- Murphy

 

P- Lester

P- Papelbon

P- Hansen

P- Delcarmen

P- Buchholz