What the Red Sox really need

[Off the wall]

We can talk all day about trades and free agents, but this is what the sox reaaly need:

 

A return to the fundamentals, including:

 

1. the sacrifice bunt

 

2. the squeeze play

 

3. a runner advancing from first to third on a single

 

4. tagging, and taking third on a fly ball to right field

 

5. the hit and run

 

6. the stolen base

 

and

 

7. hitting the cut off man

 

8. smarter defensive alignments

 

9. better execution of the DP

 

 

I know that all of this is easier said than done, but consider:

 

the largest payroll in base ball (MFYs) is out of the playoffs.

 

and maybe another home run hitter or starting pitcher could help the sox win 5 more games next year.

 

but a return to the fundamentals with the current roster could accomplish the same or better.

 

So the bottom line is this: we need an upgrade in the coaching and managing of this team more than anything else.

 

my 2 cents worth. . .

 

OFF THE WALL

[MC Hammer]

We can talk all day about trades and free agents, but this is what the sox reaaly need:

 

A return to the fundamentals, including:

 

1. the sacrifice bunt

 

2. the squeeze play

 

3. a runner advancing from first to third on a single

 

4. tagging, and taking third on a fly ball to right field

 

5. the hit and run

 

6. the stolen base

 

Those are the kind of things Rents did all year, but no one seemed to care, or give him any credit for them.

[mosox]

I thought Rent did a good job turning DP's, especially when moving to his left. Another point is many of the baserunning blunders center on the third base coach.

[Rugbyboy_90210]

Seems like someone is jumping to conclusions about small ball in the American League. We didn't do a whole lot of any of that stuff last year and we won big time. I think that the defensive fundamentals are fine but I know you guys will all bitch and moan if you don't score 1000 runs a night. I have been a sox fan my whole life and so has my dad and his dad. We have always based our team around big bats. It makes sense given the stadium.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I agree with Rugbyboy_90210. Just hit the ball...we dont need to play small ball. We need better pitching....there that was easy.

[Cityofchampions33]

I believe I posted that I want more of an NL feel to our offense, that's why I just want to sign Payton to a 1 year contract then get Pierre next year. The reason i want one is that we seemed to be VERY inconsistent when Papi/Manny wasn't hitting and we really had to lean on Papi during easy games vs. Tampa and Toronto. If anything we could create runs and try to bunt for hits. We would catch everyone by suprise and take advantage of AL teams that didn't know how to handle it. It's exactly how the Cardinals killed us when we faced em in the regular season, they out-hustled and out-played us defensively. Imagine, we'd have Pierre, who can bunt and run like hell, steal 2nd, Rent bunt him to 3rd and Papi hit him in/sac fly him in. That's an auto 1 run and could set the tempo for many games.

[riverside sluggers]

I dont think Jay Payton or Red Sox would really think about him coming back. with Payton's outburst in Texas, he pretty much had left on sour notes. I see him being resigned to the A's in 2006 or quite possibly flling the void that will be in right field of the St. Louis Cadinals

[jimmycarter05]

Those are the kind of things Rents did all year, but no one seemed to care, or give him any credit for them.

 

 

oh he did all those things great..except what his problem was making is the hard plays and booting the easy ones

[User Name]

Those are the kind of things Rents did all year, but no one seemed to care, or give him any credit for them.

 

 

I agree, but to those criticisers' credit, he probabl went out the next half inning and made a few errors.

[jimmycarter05]

I believe I posted that I want more of an NL feel to our offense, that's why I just want to sign Payton to a 1 year contract then get Pierre next year. The reason i want one is that we seemed to be VERY inconsistent when Papi/Manny wasn't hitting and we really had to lean on Papi during easy games vs. Tampa and Toronto. If anything we could create runs and try to bunt for hits. We would catch everyone by suprise and take advantage of AL teams that didn't know how to handle it. It's exactly how the Cardinals killed us when we faced em in the regular season, they out-hustled and out-played us defensively. Imagine, we'd have Pierre, who can bunt and run like hell, steal 2nd, Rent bunt him to 3rd and Papi hit him in/sac fly him in. That's an auto 1 run and could set the tempo for many games.

 

 

 

thats what the white sox do with ponsenick, ighci, and konkero

[Cityofchampions33]

my bad, i meant preston wilson

[example1]

I don't know why people pretend this is an either/or situation. THere is no reason the red sox shouldn't be fundamentally sound, able to pull off a suicide squeeze, move a runner into scoring position, take a base when necessary etc.,

 

The sox already do a decent job of sacrifice flies, hitting to the right side, etc., so its not like they have ditched all of "small ball".

 

Ideally, we would let our bats fly for most of the season. But with two guys on and nobody out in the late innings of a tied playoff game, I have NO problem with a suicide squeeze.

 

A good team should be good at doing both. Fundamentals shouldn't be hard to find in a team.

[MC Hammer]

Look I'm not trying to say the guy is perfect, but he did a lot of things for this team that no one else on the roster could do.

 

Next year all of his doubters are going to be eating out of his hand.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I say the hell with small ball, bunting, sacrifice, fly balls, whatever.....thats not how the Red Sox play and thats fine by me. Normally our style of hitting works great. The whole lineup can hit the ball and I like having a lineup of guys who can work a count. Get the pitch count up and get the starter out as soon as possible. Teams are at such a disadvantage if they need to go to the bullpen early. Our main focus should be more power and pitchers who can win when the Sox score 6 runs. It seems like we are always scoring 6 runs...thats what the starter needs to focus on...7 innings and 3er.

 

We could use more speed on the bench if anything so if Ortiz can't get to the plate at the end of the game....we can probably manufacture a run with pinch runners.

[Cityofchampions33]

I say the hell with small ball, bunting, sacrifice, fly balls, whatever.....thats not how the Red Sox play and thats fine by me. Normally our style of hitting works great. The whole lineup can hit the ball and I like having a lineup of guys who can work a count. Get the pitch count up and get the starter out as soon as possible. Teams are at such a disadvantage if they need to go to the bullpen early. Our main focus should be more power and pitchers who can win when the Sox score 6 runs. It seems like we are always scoring 6 runs...thats what the starter needs to focus on...7 innings and 3er.

 

We could use more speed on the bench if anything so if Ortiz can't get to the plate at the end of the game....we can probably manufacture a run with pinch runners.

 

The only problem is that they rely a lot on Manny and Ortiz to do all the dirty work, if the whole lineupd could get on base no matter what and do these funadmentals correctly then we would still score even if papi/Manny weren't hitting. That's why I would like to get Pierre.

[Sizzlin22]

1. the sacrifice bunt

 

2. the squeeze play

 

3. a runner advancing from first to third on a single

 

4. tagging, and taking third on a fly ball to right field

 

5. the hit and run

 

6. the stolen base

 

and

 

7. hitting the cut off man

 

8. smarter defensive alignments

 

9. better execution of the DP

OK:

 

1.We don't play in the NL we have a slugging line up. We've led the league in runs scored 3 years in a row, we don't need to sacrifice.

 

2.Once again unnessacary we have a station to station team, maybe is our offense sucked we would try s*** like this but we don't need it.

 

3.If we had speed we could do that, Kapler and Damon could do that and di that plenty of times. Once again we have a station to station team, and it works, why f*** with it?

 

4. We're a slow team Damon and Kapler could probabaly do that but the other guys can't. Once again we dn't need that unless our offense goes into a tailspin.

 

5. Once again we don't need it, plus we don't have enough guys hwo make enough contact to do that.

 

6.We don't need it.

 

To summerize 1-6 We don't need it. Those things are all for teams who don't have sluggers in thier line ups and need to find other ways to push runs across the plate. We've led the league in runs scored 3 years in a row, why would you want to f*** with that.

 

7. Hitting the cut off man? We do hit the cut off man. None of our outfielders arms are strong enough to get to very far anyways. The only way to get th eball back to the infield was to hit the cut off man.

 

8. Smarter defensive alignment? We put th shift on heavy pulling lefties like most other teams outside of that what else is thier to do?

 

9. We turned the DP fine. I don't see why this si the problem

 

 

7-9 make no sense to me why anyone wuld think they need to be "fixed".

[jimmycarter05]

We can talk all day about trades and free agents, but this is what the sox reaaly need:

 

A return to the fundamentals, including:

 

1. the sacrifice bunt

 

2. the squeeze play

 

3. a runner advancing from first to third on a single

 

4. tagging, and taking third on a fly ball to right field

 

5. the hit and run

 

6. the stolen base

 

and

 

7. hitting the cut off man

 

8. smarter defensive alignments

 

9. better execution of the DP

 

 

I know that all of this is easier said than done, but consider:

 

the largest payroll in base ball (MFYs) is out of the playoffs.

 

and maybe another home run hitter or starting pitcher could help the sox win 5 more games next year.

 

but a return to the fundamentals with the current roster could accomplish the same or better.

 

So the bottom line is this: we need an upgrade in the coaching and managing of this team more than anything else.

 

my 2 cents worth. . .

 

OFF THE WALL

 

 

 

amen thats the future of baseball..get them on, get them over, and get them in...look at the remaining teams in the playoffs; Angels, White Sox, Astros, Cardinals...none of them have explosive lineups(except the Cards with Pujols) and all of them have great pitching and bullpens....we can't count on ortiz or manny to smack a home run every time in the bottom of the 9th because one of our bullpen guys choked or because we didn't manfactuer enough runs...the future of baseball is small ball with your 1 and 2 guys getting on getting over and your 3,4,5 guys getting them in

[example1]

amen thats the future of baseball..get them on, get them over, and get them in...look at the remaining teams in the playoffs; Angels, White Sox, Astros, Cardinals...none of them have explosive lineups(except the Cards with Pujols) and all of them have great pitching and bullpens....we can't count on ortiz or manny to smack a home run every time in the bottom of the 9th because one of our bullpen guys choked or because we didn't manfactuer enough runs...the future of baseball is small ball with your 1 and 2 guys getting on getting over and your 3,4,5 guys getting them in

 

Last year didn't the final four come down to the Yanks, Red Sox, Cardinals and Astros? Not really small ball teams in my opinion. I don't think we should be concerned with "the future of baseball", as baseball has been around for along time, and will be around for a long time. Small ball is nothing new, power is nothing new. What is new is the idea that its either one or the other.

 

Look, here's the thing. I don't see any reason why everyone on the Sox except for their TWO power hitters can't play fundamentally sound baseball. It doesn't mean to never hit homeruns, it doesn't mean that they can't still score 900 runs.

 

I think fundamentally sound baseball consists both of

a) taking pitches when necessary (having good control of the plate)

being able to bunt (i.e., put the ball on the ground)

c) Playing decent defense

d) having good (at least CONSISTENT) relievers.

 

 

If a team has power to hit them in that's great. But why shouldn't guys like Damon or Renteria, Nixon, Varitek or Graffanino be able to draw walks or put down a bunt? Its not like Graffanino is some hulking beast that can hit homeruns on a whim if just told he doesn't have to bunt. Damon isn't a homerun waiting to happen, if anything he gets singles (see his SLG). So why is it so much to ask that when it matters he can bunt? Not such a big deal for millions of dollars a year.

 

I like the "moneyball" approach. But what the Sox do isn't moneyball. In fact, its just "ball" since "money" is really, really not a factor for the sox like it was for Billy Beane. So the sox have the ability to get both fundamentaly sound players AND players who drive in the runs. Its NOT EITHER OR!!!!

 

People that hate moneyball approaches don't understand the point of moneyball... its about getting the most out of very little money. Bang for your buck. I guarentee that if Beane had more money he would not do everything like he does. Small ball is really just an approach to make sure that you score runs. It doesn't guarantee you score a lot of runs, but ot does pretty well to give you the best chance to score a run if someone is on first, with nobody out and average hitters coming up.

 

I don't think this is really much of a debate. The sox mix both, they have the luxury to do that. We're not going to STOP trying to do that, but we should also try to get the most out of our money.

[Off the wall]

I'd like to summarize and re-state the point that I was trying to make when I started this thread:

 

Rather than always looking for a "better player" (via trade or free agent) why can't the Red Sox management invest in better coaches and concentrate on "getting their players to play better?"

 

The culture of the team dosn't need to be changed. 3 run homers are OK. But why do we have only 2 players in the line-up capable of making a sacrifice bunt? Bunting is a basic baseball skill; Every Sox player should have some idea how to do it.

 

A champoinship team should be expected to execute the fundamental skills when they are needed to win the game.

 

Again, the Sox do not need better players. The Sox need players who play better.

 

 

 

Off the wall

[example1]

Agreed completely.

[Sizzlin22]

I'd like to summarize and re-state the point that I was trying to make when I started this thread:

 

Rather than always looking for a "better player" (via trade or free agent) why can't the Red Sox management invest in better coaches and concentrate on "getting their players to play better?"

 

The culture of the team dosn't need to be changed. 3 run homers are OK. But why do we have only 2 players in the line-up capable of making a sacrifice bunt? Bunting is a basic baseball skill; Every Sox player should have some idea how to do it.

 

A champoinship team should be expected to execute the fundamental skills when they are needed to win the game.

 

Again, the Sox do not need better players. The Sox need players who play better.

 

 

 

Off the wall

IT's a good point in theory but in real life it doesn't really work. Things like improving fundamentals in particular players normally happens in the minor leagues. By the time most players get to the majors, they are already set on performing certain tasks.

 

Sure you can do minor things like help a player try to read where balls will go and go from first to third and sutff like that but thats about it. In this era of free agents if you want players who do things like that, you need to go get a player who does things lke that. It is very very hard to internally make guys better at certain things on the major league level.

[jimmycarter05]

I'd like to summarize and re-state the point that I was trying to make when I started this thread:

 

Rather than always looking for a "better player" (via trade or free agent) why can't the Red Sox management invest in better coaches and concentrate on "getting their players to play better?"

 

The culture of the team dosn't need to be changed. 3 run homers are OK. But why do we have only 2 players in the line-up capable of making a sacrifice bunt? Bunting is a basic baseball skill; Every Sox player should have some idea how to do it.

 

A champoinship team should be expected to execute the fundamental skills when they are needed to win the game.

 

Again, the Sox do not need better players. The Sox need players who play better.

 

 

 

Off the wall

 

 

 

and who would we fire and who would we hire?

[ORS]

We scored the most runs in the league for the 3rd straight year (2005 - 910, 2004 - 949, 2003 - 961). We need pitching. Starting, middle relief, and closing. Papelbon and a healthy Curt should really improve the rotation. The middle relief will be improved with Hansen, MDC, and DiNardo. Timlin is close to signing; he's fine as the 8th inning SU. If Foulke comes back healthy and is able to return to form, then we look good for next year. However, if we lose Manny, the pitching will need to improve that much more.

[noonanberg]

First Renteria sucks, can't reiterate that enough waste of $10 million. Second the Sox need a lefty starter (if Wells doesn't return). Any chance they can package Kazmir in with Huff? That'd be nice. Third, yes, they do need to get better at the fundamentals. Bunting, stealing, sacrificing. Not leaving the bases load with no outs. Fourth, a new third base coach wouldn't hurt. Finally, a Dave Roberts type player. The Sox really need some speed.

[example1]

First Renteria sucks, can't reiterate that enough waste of $10 million. Second the Sox need a lefty starter (if Wells doesn't return). Any chance they can package Kazmir in with Huff? That'd be nice. Third, yes, they do need to get better at the fundamentals. Bunting, stealing, sacrificing. Not leaving the bases load with no outs. Fourth, a new third base coach wouldn't hurt. Finally, a Dave Roberts type player. The Sox really need some speed.

 

I agreed with most of what you said, except the part about Renteria. I think you're being too hard on him.

[schillingouttheks]

He's been too hard on him the whole season. He'll shut up during this upcoming one. A-Rod sucked last year too, bud. It's called an adjustment year. Same thing with RJ for the most part this year, then he got used to the league and dominated.

[Cityofchampions33]

First Renteria sucks, can't reiterate that enough waste of $10 million. Second the Sox need a lefty starter (if Wells doesn't return). Any chance they can package Kazmir in with Huff? That'd be nice. Third, yes, they do need to get better at the fundamentals. Bunting, stealing, sacrificing. Not leaving the bases load with no outs. Fourth, a new third base coach wouldn't hurt. Finally, a Dave Roberts type player. The Sox really need some speed.

 

We'd need to give up a lot more than just Arroyo. Also everyone rly needs to lay off Rent, if he does bad next year then you can get on him, but even ARod had a hard time his 1st season. I'm sure he'll have his usual defensive year and will probably hit lead-off w/ Damon gone. He's been good his whole career and all things considered didn't have the worst season possible (though 20+ errors is atrocious). He's been good his whole career, in no way should we judge him on one transition season into the AL.

[Sizzlin22]

First Renteria sucks, can't reiterate that enough waste of $10 million. Second the Sox need a lefty starter (if Wells doesn't return). Any chance they can package Kazmir in with Huff? That'd be nice. Third, yes, they do need to get better at the fundamentals. Bunting, stealing, sacrificing. Not leaving the bases load with no outs. Fourth, a new third base coach wouldn't hurt. Finally, a Dave Roberts type player. The Sox really need some speed.

Ok youre an idiot. You're wrong in everything except the Red Sox need a speed player.

 

1. Renteria doesn't suck, but we won't start with that again.

2.Did the Red Sox have any lefty starter in 2004?

3.Yeah there's great odds the the D-Rays will trade to us the best young pitcher in baseball.

4.We've been over why we don't need fundamentals like bunting stealing and sacrificing, they've lead the league in scoring 3 years in a row. We don't need to play small ball.

 

 

CityofChamions you have probabaly one of the funniest sigs I've seen in awhile.

[example1]

Ok youre an idiot. You're wrong in everything except the Red Sox need a speed player.

 

1. Renteria doesn't suck, but we won't start with that again.

2.Did the Red Sox have any lefty starter in 2004?

3.Yeah there's great odds the the D-Rays will trade to us the best young pitcher in baseball.

4.We've been over why we don't need fundamentals like bunting stealing and sacrificing, they've lead the league in scoring 3 years in a row. We don't need to play small ball.

 

 

CityofChamions you have probabaly one of the funniest sigs I've seen in awhile.

 

 

I pretty much agree with this. Except that Kazmir is not the best young pitcher in baseball in my book. Felix Hernandez gets that crown.

[Sizzlin22]

Felix Hernandez gets that crown.

Felix Hernandez hasn't proven himself to me yet. The guys made a few starts for a last place team and done a great job, but how many times have we seen these hotshot pitchers come in for a half a year and then fizzle out. Kazmir for the past year and a half has pitched consistantly great for the hapless D-Rays.