Rivalry Dead?

[BigPapiEnFuego]

That Boone HR still pisses me off. I hate it. I can still remember going to sleep when they had the lead late in that game, right before the grady f***up, thinking they were gonna win game 7, then i wake up at 3 in the morning and put on ESPNnews and the first thing i see is that f***ing home run. I punched the t.v and cried. yes, i cried. I'm man enough to admit that i cried over a baseball game.

[element1151]

wanna talk about overkill? the thousands of mentions of aaron f***ing boone after 2003. thats overkill

So now we define overkill as something that was mentioned too much when the Yankess were the victors, but not when the Red Sox were.

 

I'd say the media coverage was about even for both, and I don't see either as overkill.

[RedRuffing15]

That Boone HR still pisses me off. I hate it. I can still remember going to sleep when they had the lead late in that game, right before the grady f***up, thinking they were gonna win game 7, then i wake up at 3 in the morning and put on ESPNnews and the first thing i see is that f***ing home run. I punched the t.v and cried. yes, i cried. I'm man enough to admit that i cried over a baseball game.

 

But, in all seriousness, that was the greatest baseball game that I ever witnessed, I'll admit too, Game 5 or 6(can't remember wich) last year was great,mbut that Game 7 of the ALCS was by far, the greatest baseball game I can remember watching, ever, in almost 10 years of baseball, it is

[sarasoxfan]

overkill, the boone crap is in overkill infancy compared to bucky f***ing dent. the rivalry isnt dead, it's changed and from a sox fan perspective for the better.

 

For far too long the rivalry consisted of us trying to beat the yankees--unsuccessully. It was a clear case of the favorite versus the underdog, with the lovable losers finding new ways to submit to the bully.

That, of course, has all changed and now the easiest way to shut up any yankee is literally tell them to put a bloody sock in their mouth.

 

It is by far the greatest rivalry around but its diifferent now, and I say better. we arent the bitch anymore, we are the champs, and whining little yankee fans can say what they want but they arent the bullies with the big payroll anymore, they are just a team that choked with a big payroll.

 

with that siad I agree with BigPapi...I wasnt so upset as usual friday, becasue I knew we would win saturday and that our lead was large enough that we wouldnt take the old nosedive.

But that doesnt diminish the rivalry--as far as the rest of the sports world caring, who cares. I hate all that is yankee and always will. Of course, they have some good fans and players, but that doesnt mean I cant loathe them.

 

saying the biggest choke in sports history feels as good today as it did last fall.

[sarasoxfan]

oh one more thing.because of the PC attempts by the powers that be to eliminate yankeee suck shirts and things like that--is just that PC overkill. I think the rest of the sports world has their own rivalries to worry about but in terms of baseball and in terms of being a sox fan--this is truly a great rivalry and the mere thought of the yankees not making the playoffs with a 200 million dollar payroll brings me such ghoulish pleasure its hard to describe.

[sarasoxfan]

I'm sorry to post again but this article form the Post sheds some light on what we are talking about. How frustarting it must be to be a yankee fan and have so many redsox fans in your house. There always a few yankee fans in fenway but never enough to be too bothersome.

But this is funny..

 

STADIUM NOW BOSTON COLONY

September 11, 2005 -- THE BALL looked like it had a shot when it left Derek Jeter's bat, but somewhere high above Yankee Stadium it lost a few feet, began to die, began to tumble back to earth, where Trot Nixon was waiting. Nixon stood a step in front of the right-field wall, a step to the right of the yellow W.B. Mason sign, finally squeezed it.

Ballgame. Red Sox 9, Yankees 2.

 

Which is when a strange thing happened:

 

You couldn't hear the first few notes of "New York, New York" (the Liza version, the one they reserve especially for seven-run losses to the Red Sox). You couldn't hear them because there was a deafening spasm of noise spreading through the grandstand now, and just about everywhere you looked inside Yankee Stadium you could see row after row of red shirts, hear chorus after chorus of satisfied cheering.

 

It isn't enough that the Red Sox won Game 7 of last year's ALCS and put an end to whatever metaphysical dominance the Yankees and their fans felt they had over the Sox. It isn't enough that the 5,000 or so Sox fans who scored tickets to that game stayed long and partied loud into that October night.

 

No, now they have become even more emboldened, and they have multiplied wildly. This isn't perception, it is reality: there are more of them now. Time was, finding a visible Red Sox fan inside Yankee Stadium in September was like trying to find a Democrat at a Bush family retreat. And even those who did infiltrate tended to mind their manners unless they were emboldened with a little Anheuser-Busch Courage.

 

Not now. Not anymore. Walking through the concourses at Yankee Stadium during the top of the fourth inning yesterday, there rose a deep, throaty roar from the other side of the walls. Yankee fans scurried to the concession stands to check TV monitors; such a sound could only mean a Yankee had just made a splendid defensive play.

 

 

 

Imagine their surprise, then, when they saw this instead: Red Sox first baseman John Olerud trotting around the base paths after smoking a ball into the right field stands off Shawn Chacon, extending the Sox' lead to 3-0.

 

"Why the hell is everyone cheering?" asked a guy in an Alex Rodriguez jersey, and it's a hell of a good question. We have grown used to the sound of Yankees fans engineering hostile takeovers of Shea Stadium during Subway Series. We have even heard the occasional night in the Bronx when Mets fans can out-shout the natives.

 

But Red Sox fans? Here?

 

Next thing you know there'll be dogs and cats . . . living together . . . total chaos . . .

 

"We're running out of games," Derek Jeter said.

 

Yes. Of all the shocks to the system that the Yankees have absorbed since this rivalry was officially turned on its ear, that's the most pressing right now. The Yankees had all kinds of momentum after Friday night's 8-4 victory. Now that looked and felt and sounded like a vintage Yankees-Red Sox game. No insolent interlopers then. No "Two-ooh thousand!" chants then.

 

"No carryover, I told you guys that," Jeter said. "Every day is a new day, a new game. Yesterday means nothing."

 

Apparently not. Not anymore. The Sox fortified their lead in the East yesterday, and deepened the Yankees' wild-card problems, and did so in an atmosphere that was shockingly visitor friendly.

 

"We have no fear of Yankee Stadium," David Ortiz said — which is pretty obvious, because for most of yesterday the Sox enjoyed all the comforts of home there, right down to shoddy Yankee pitching and sloppy Yankee defense. All that was missing was high-speed Internet in the dugout and hi-def TV in the bullpen.

 

How bad have things gotten? George Steinbrenner, who so sportingly kept the lights on for celebrating Sox fans last October, had zero fight left in him as he departed the Stadium yesterday.

 

"Get out of here, guys," he told the assembled Bossophiles. "Leave me alone."

[Pinstripe_Pride]

Are you proud of the bandwagoners that make red sox fans as a whole look like *******s? Because thats what most of them are, fairweather fans. And trust me, as a yankee fan who enjoys more conversing with red sox fans than stupid bandwagon yankee fans (YES Boards), you don't want everyone and their mother to just become a Red Sox fan.

[ORS]

Are you proud of the bandwagoners that make red sox fans as a whole look like *******s? Because thats what most of them are, fairweather fans. And trust me, as a yankee fan who enjoys more conversing with red sox fans than stupid bandwagon yankee fans (YES Boards), you don't want everyone and their mother to just become a Red Sox fan.

You are 16. Been rooting for the Yankees since you were what, 7 years old? That's 9 years of rooting for your team, putting your first season back in 1996. What's my point?

 

Don't condescend as if you are any better than a fairweather fan if your team has never struggled in your life. How do you know if you are any better? The Yankees haven't been bad so you wouldn't know.

[sarasoxfan]

man, I am so sick of this fairweather fan talk regardless of who says it. who f***ing cares.

I am as devoted a fan as they come and that's just me. It doesnt bother me what anyone else does. that's their business and who I am to judge what they do with their rooting or cheering? Not everyone can follow a team like we do, and as long as they root for the sox, who cares. There are always going to be poeple that only become fans during the playoffs and who will only root for a winner and they are always going to be people who stick it out no matter what.

The bottom line for me is that I have been a sox fan forever, and unlike some fans have suffered through losing season after losing season at the hands of the yankees and everyone else in the american league, and by golly, I spent years waiting to gloat and waiting to have a championship team and if that means taking a few shits on the yankees and their barabaric fan base-then I say so what. Nothing brings me more pleasure than the sox being winners...Nothing brings me more perverse pleasure than seeing the evil empire suffer humilating losses to teams like the devil rays and then internal bickering and name calling that comes with it. I read the new york post to fuel my fire. personally I dont care if your a fairweather fan or a sox lunatic, as long as the sox win and the yankees lose all is right in the world!

 

.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

 

Look at the 542 books that came out, all the cotton wasted on t-shirts (kidding), etc. etc. etc.

 

OVERKILL.

ha, I was at Waldenbooks in SI yesterday and they had a whole section on the "comeback".

[26 to 6]

go to YES boards and tell me again how little hatred there is towards Red Sox fans...

YES Boards dont count...those are stupid, hypocritical, unknowledgabe, bandwagon, fake, know-nothings

[ksushi]

I don't think the orioles will compete next year, no. The devil rays are two or three years away, but they will be a wild card contender in the future yeah. The Jays though, the Jays worry me. That'd be awesome though I would love a close three team race.

[26 to 6]

I feel more hatred coming from Red Sox fans to the Yankees than I feel Yankee fans give toward the Red Sox. Sure both fan bases hate each other, but there aren't anywhere near the amount of Boston Sucks sites as there are Yankees Suck sites. And I know some people who aren't fans of the Red Sox make those sites, but for the most part they are made by RS fans....

 

 

That is EXACTLY true, and it always has. I thought the reason in years past was simply because of their lack of success and a bit of jealousy (its not a knock on Sox fans...anyone would be jealous, i would just imagine that Sox fans would take the jealousy to another degree being that we are your rivals), but now after they won i think its because they (and they're 6 championships) feel superior to us (and our 26 championships) and they want to rub it in.

 

 

 

BTW...I thought it was very interesting when I read that you guys actually have more players who were not home grown...just an example of the ignorance of Red Sox nation because of how they're always telling us that we never produce our own players and always buy our players.

[ksushi]

Jeez, I didn't see there was another page to this, but now that I do, fairweather fans are gonna happen, there just happens to be like 400 million of them in boston. Its annoying, yeah, the last forum i registered at was full of them, threads everywhere like "OMG FIRE EDGAH HES ONLY HITTING .290 OMG" and "OMG I WANT PEDRO BACK BECAUSE CLEMENT HASNT THROWN A PERFECT GAME YET" " I MISS D-LOWE SCHILLING IS POOP" I quit when there was a schilling bashing thread and i got mad and told them all off, because the guy did jeopardize his career (and millions of millions of dollars that he could have had if he lasted until free agency again which he could have) so we could have a world series victory. I mean he could have shut himself down and been ok, but he didnt do that, hes officially the man and should never have to buy a drink in this town again.... ok rant over sorry about all that.

[26 to 6]

That Boone HR still pisses me off. I hate it. I can still remember going to sleep when they had the lead late in that game, right before the grady f***up, thinking they were gonna win game 7, then i wake up at 3 in the morning and put on ESPNnews and the first thing i see is that f***ing home run. I punched the t.v and cried. yes, i cried. I'm man enough to admit that i cried over a baseball game.

I cried in 2001 right after the ball left Gonzo's bat (and I still cry when I see it...hardest loss in my entire life), I cried in 2002 when we lost to the Angels (being so used to winning and having that happen kicked in a sense of reality that I wasnt used to), and I cried last year when the Sox won the World Series (not when they won the ALCS, my emotions following that are rather difficult to describe).

[ksushi]

I cried when boone hit the homerun, that was the toughest loss in my life by a long shot. Even my losses on my baseball teams haven't hurt that much, that one stayed with me for awhile. Oh man, that was hard. I was pretty pissed when we went down 3-o I remember when we lost that first game that schilling pitched and they jumped all over us early, I was pretty mad about that. I hate it when the yanks strike first. I prefer holding them down to chasing them by a mile.

[26 to 6]

Are you proud of the bandwagoners that make red sox fans as a whole look like *******s? Because thats what most of them are, fairweather fans. And trust me, as a yankee fan who enjoys more conversing with red sox fans than stupid bandwagon yankee fans (YES Boards), you don't want everyone and their mother to just become a Red Sox fan.

I feel exactly how you do...its unbelieveable how many people jumped on the RS bandwagon after 2003 (thats when their whole sympathy thing began and they started to emerge into "America's Team" by making us "The Evil Empire") and especially after last year. And like you said PP, we as Yankee fans know a thing or 2 about bandwagoners, and as a Yankee fan for my entire life (went to my first game in 1992) I hated the "fans" of the Yankees that only became fans after we started winning again. Like even still today I cant stand it. Example, Yesterday I was hanging out with 2 of my friends, and my friend's sister had a friend over, and she commented "Mets Suck" because my other friend was wearing a Mets hat. This 13 year old girl who knew nothing about baseball said that only because the Mets were not the ones to win 4 Championships and 6 Pennants over an 8 year span. Point being, true fans of a team usually dont like bandwagoners. In the Red Sox case its unbelieveable the overwhelming number of bandwagoners who act like the history of the Red Sox dates back to 2003. There are so many fans who know nothing about the Sox pre-2003, and those people are usually the "fans" from Oregon, Nevada, Illinois, Ohio, South Carolina, Florida, Oklahoma, etc. And its the same with the Yankees, majority of the fans outside of NY (except maybe Tampa, just due to the fact that the Yankees are sort of based out of Tampa) who arent from NY are frontrunners (I said majority of the people, not all of the people)....And its the same with the Red Sox.

 

 

Well I can spend hours discussing my dislike for frontrunners but i think ill conclude now

[26 to 6]

now I will get to my thoughts on the rivalry being dead or not..

 

How could a rivalry that has spanned 100 years be dead. It CANT. The clostse possible thing to being dead is to be in a state similar to the late 80's or the early 90's, where it wasnt this intense, but there was still definatly a form of tension and dislike among the fans (and maybe even the players, but if so, definately not to the degree that it is now). But I dont even think the rivalry is at that low, I still think the rivalry is flourishing as if it were 2002 or 2003, but just a little different, due to the fact that the Yankees dont have the overwhelming superiority factor over the Sox that they had prior to the 2004 World Series win by the Red Sox. But that right there is the only explanation I could come up for people saying that it is dead, the fact that the Sox have finally accomplished the feat. But even so, this rivalry is still flourishing...it is demonstrated on a daily basis on this very site. In every thread a Sox fan makes an anti-Yankee comment.

 

Anybody who thinks this rivalry is dead is absolutely crazy. I could understand if you think it has lost some "juice", something that I done agree with, but can understand.

[ORS]

I thought it was very interesting when I read that you guys actually have more players who were not home grown...just an example of the ignorance of Red Sox nation because of how they're always telling us that we never produce our own players and always buy our players.

With your posts you provide so much evidence that you are absolutely incapable objectivity that it is hard to take you seriously.

 

That perception about the Yankees has very little to do with how many of their players are from their farm system. It has to do with the number of players acquired that were legitimate stars when the Yankees got them. Brown, Johnson, ARod (you got him because you agreed to pony up the dough, so it is a money issue too), Sheff, Giambi, Mussina, and Pavano were all considered top-shelf talent when the Yankees acquired them. Matsui and Wright missed that list due to Wright's injury prone past and the fact that Matsui was a roll of the dice.

 

For the Sox, only Manny, Curt, Rent, Foulke, and Boomer were in that category when the Sox got them. Clement, Mueller, Wake, Arroyo, Millar, Damon, Ortiz, Miller, and Timlin were all good players but not MLB elite when the Sox put them on the roster.

 

P.S. The fact that the Yankees have more home grown talent will most likely end next year, and once it changes it will stay that way for quite some time.

[Ray10]

The Red Sox-Yankee rivalry is still the best in all of sports.

[26 to 6]

With your posts you provide so much evidence that you are absolutely incapable objectivity that it is hard to take you seriously.

 

That perception about the Yankees has very little to do with how many of their players are from their farm system. It has to do with the number of players acquired that were legitimate stars when the Yankees got them. Brown, Johnson, ARod (you got him because you agreed to pony up the dough, so it is a money issue too), Sheff, Giambi, Mussina, and Pavano were all considered top-shelf talent when the Yankees acquired them. Matsui and Wright missed that list due to Wright's injury prone past and the fact that Matsui was a roll of the dice.

 

For the Sox, only Manny, Curt, Rent, Foulke, and Boomer were in that category when the Sox got them. Clement, Mueller, Wake, Arroyo, Millar, Damon, Ortiz, Miller, and Timlin were all good players but not MLB elite when the Sox put them on the roster.

 

P.S. The fact that the Yankees have more home grown talent will most likely end next year, and once it changes it will stay that way for quite some time.

I doubt it will stay that way for some time as we have Cano and Wang up, Andy Phillips will probably be in the bigs all year next year (as a bench/utility guy of coarse), as will Proctor, and not to mention that we have guys like Hughes, Melky, and Duncan on the rise. But that does not take away from the fact that you guys do have several top-notch prospects, (Pedroia,Hanley, Papelbon, Delcarmen, Hansen, etc..)

 

You are absolutely correct about the guys we bring in being stars when we bring them in..but that works 2 ways; No star is going to want to sign with a team that doesnt win, and yes, the same goes with the Yankees. We werent winning in the 80's or early 90's, so we didnt really didnt have many big stars except for the guys we still had from the 70's championships and Winfield (who signed while we were still considered a winning team not far off our championships). But after we started losing in the 80's the best guys we could get were the Steve Sax, Danny Tartabull, and Jimmy Key's of the world. The biggest player we got during that time period was Rickey Henderson, who was hard to consider a star at the time due to the fact he was only 5 years into the league when we signed him away from Oakland. So back to the point, it took us winning in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000 before all the big stars started flocking to the Yankees. If you think about it, the Moose's, Giambi's, Matsui's, A-Rod's, Sheffields, and Brown's of the world didnt come until after we won those titles, the biggest stars we got DURING the title reign were Clemens, Knoblauch, Justice; who at the time we signed/aquired them were not at the level of the other guys I had listed (exception: Clemens) as opposed to the other guys i listed ( the Moose's, Giambi's, Matsui's, A-Rod's, Sheffields, and Brown's of the world ).

 

So its not only us buying these guys, its them being drawn to us, and us being ABLE to buy something. Lets face it, if you were a millionaire you wouldnt live like a homeless person.

[ORS]

No, but calling RSN ignorant just because the Yankees have 5 farm hands on their roster vs. the Sox 2 is uncalled for and, quite frankly, insulting. Many people in RSN are well aware that the current team is composed primarily of imported talent, yet they still believe the Yankees try to buy their way to victory. Steinbrenner has done very little to dissuade them from that perception.

[Sizzlin22]

The reson that the Yankees really have more home grown players is because of injury this year. wiothout injury would Chien Ming Wang, Aaron Small, or Robinson Cano be on the roster this year? Most likely we wouldn't even know who those guys are.

[26 to 6]

The reson that the Yankees really have more home grown players is because of injury this year. wiothout injury would Chien Ming Wang, Aaron Small, or Robinson Cano be on the roster this year? Most likely we wouldn't even know who those guys are.

Aaron Small is not homegrown, he's a journeyman. And Cano wasnt called up because of injury, he was called up because of lack of production. But I see your point.

 

One Red Seat: Frankly. I cant help to call "Red Sox Nation" ignorant sometimes. Some Sox fans just display it so well. But thats not the picture im trying to paint about every person who roots for Boston, because some aren't that ignorant at all.

[See Red]

Aaron Small is not homegrown, he's a journeyman. And Cano wasnt called up because of injury, he was called up because of lack of production. But I see your point.

 

One Red Seat: Frankly. I cant help to call "Red Sox Nation" ignorant sometimes. Some Sox fans just display it so well. But thats not the picture im trying to paint about every person who roots for Boston, because some aren't that ignorant at all.

 

And what about Yankees fans? Or is knowing only two arguments ("1918!" and "26 to 6"), one of which isn't even valid anymore, some form of genius?

 

Not living anywhere NEAR Boston or New York, and listening to unbiased opinions about the two, the general consensus seems to be Yankees fans are a lot more ignorant.

[Pinstripe_Pride]

Not living anywhere NEAR Boston or New York, and listening to unbiased opinions about the two, the general consensus seems to be Yankees fans are a lot more ignorant.

 

To quote Twain, "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure."

 

I'm only kidding and trying to make light of a conversation that got somewhat heated. I was in no way condescending anyone ORS, and am still confused as to where in the passage you quoted me I seemed to be doing so.

 

It is unfair to say Yankee fans are more ignorant because last time I checked no one surveyed both fanbases on their knowledge, or lack there of, on the team they support and on baseball.

[ARod2212]

It is unfair to say Yankee fans are more ignorant because last time I checked no one surveyed both fanbases on their knowledge, or lack there of, on the team they support and on baseball.

Bingo. In every random sampling of a group of people, you will find ignorant and flat out stupid people. The larger the group (fan base) the more likely it is you will find such people. Ergo, two of the largest fan bases (Yankees, Red Sox) will have people with lack intelligence and an abundance of ignorance. The presence of these people, however does not make the entire group subject to this mental state. And to classify them as such is a stereotype, and one with very little importance.

[26 to 6]

And what about Yankees fans? Or is knowing only two arguments ("1918!" and "26 to 6"), one of which isn't even valid anymore, some form of genius?

 

Not living anywhere NEAR Boston or New York, and listening to unbiased opinions about the two, the general consensus seems to be Yankees fans are a lot more ignorant.

Im not saying that every Red SOx fan is ignorant, but some are. And when we chant "1918" or "Boston Sucks!" or "26 to 6" (which isnt even a chant) its the same as you guys chanting "Yankees Suck!" and whatever else you guys chant (I know I heard a "2000" chant one time).

[ORS]

I was in no way condescending anyone ORS, and am still confused as to where in the passage you quoted me I seemed to be doing so.

Are you proud of the bandwagoners that make red sox fans as a whole look like *******s? Because thats what most of them are, fairweather fans. And trust me, as a yankee fan who enjoys more conversing with red sox fans than stupid bandwagon yankee fans .

Are you not looking down your nose at fairweather fans and bandwagoners? Your statement doesn't lead one to conclude that you view them in a favorable light.

 

My main point is that you haven't been a fan of your team long enough to experience the woe of watching a losing team, and that is not your fault due to your age. If you haven't had to endure a "bad"weather era, then how do you know you aren't a fairweather fan? Before you hold others in contempt, you ought to make sure that you aren't a little like them.

[Pinstripe_Pride]

Are you not looking down your nose at fairweather fans and bandwagoners? Your statement doesn't lead one to conclude that you view them in a favorable light.

 

My main point is that you haven't been a fan of your team long enough to experience the woe of watching a losing team, and that is not your fault due to your age. If you haven't had to endure a "bad"weather era, then how do you know you aren't a fairweather fan? Before you hold others in contempt, you ought to make sure that you aren't a little like them.

 

Do you look at fairweather fans in a favorable light? Would you rather replace a fairweather fan with yourself and let him/her defend a point to a true baseball fan of another team? :dunno:

 

I understand that because I am younger than you you might not think that I have been through enough baseball seasons to love my team through thick and thin, but please, if you knew me, you would know that I bleed pinstripes. Have for ten years and will for the rest of my life.