Yankeesrule:

[ORS]

So for the last time, i am not trying to take anything away from the Boston Red Sox and their 2004 Championship, all I am doing is saying that they were not the best team in baseball last year. And because you said that you wouldnt declare the Yankees the best team in baseball for 2005 if they won the World Series, you must agree with me that the team that wins the World Series isnt necessarily the best team in baseball (The 2004 Boston Red Sox).

I'm done with this. While you may have read my post, you obviously didn't get it. I can't argue with someone who is incapable of reading and comprehending.

[redsoxrules]

You're proving my point exactly (the same point ive been trying to make for about 3 pages now), that the best team in baseball doesnt always necessarily win the World Series. The Red Sox were a .500 club for half of the season last year. They didnt even win their division. To me, a team that plays decent ball for a significant part of the season and doesnt even win their division cant be the best team in baseball. But what you guys were argueing for the entire thread is that becase the Sox won the World Series, that they were the best team in the league. Now right here I proposed that if the Yankees win the Series this year that you declare them the best team in the league (just as you did with Boston last year), and you declined. Which I cant blame you, myself being a Yankee fan, it would be ludicrous for anybody to say that they are the best team in the league for the year 2005.

 

So like i've been saying all thread, the Red Sox were not the best team in baseball in the year 2004, however they were the best team in baseball in the postseason

 

And isnt it funny that I was argueing that the Cardinals were the best team in baseball last year, btu all of you said that its not fair to say that because they didnt play AL teams (except for the short interleague season of coarse) and you cant compare, then you come and say right now that the Cardinals are the best team this year.

 

 

So for the last time, i am not trying to take anything away from the Boston Red Sox and their 2004 Championship, all I am doing is saying that they were not the best team in baseball last year. And because you said that you wouldnt declare the Yankees the best team in baseball for 2005 if they won the World Series, you must agree with me that the team that wins the World Series isnt necessarily the best team in baseball (The 2004 Boston Red Sox).

 

WTF are you smoking crack ,thats the stupidest thing ive heard , whoever wins the world series is the best team,boston won cause they were good under pressure ,better clutch hitting and they didnt CHOKE!and the playoffs counts as a season as well, the cardinals had the better record BUT not good under pressure and they choked. a team that CHOKES isnt good like the yanks did last year (get over it that you guys choke and admit boston was the best in 2004) it dont matter if you have the best record in season, cause the playoffs counts as part of the season as well. in the playoffs is when we see who can get the clutch hit ,come back from behind,good pitching , and if you cant do that in the playoffs you aint the f***ing best team,thats like me saying the yankee team that won 4 WS in the late 90 sucked big time, f***ing please ,by me saying that would make me jealous oh wait a min i think 26 to 6 is

[soxie thefangirl]

Who can argue with the fact that the Red Sox were the best last year? Crazy.

[Moose]

It's not the best team who wins the World Series, it's the hottest team who does.

[redsoxrules]

It's not the best team who wins the World Series, it's the hottest team who does.

oh f*** not another one, well im done posting on this topic , people are too jealous that the red sox won last year and cant admit that they were the best team

[Moose]

oh f*** not another one, well im done posting on this topic , people are too jealous that the red sox won last year and cant admit that they were the best team

 

The Cardinals were the best team. The Red Sox were the hottest team. They basically won every series in a sweep. Are you telling me that the 1988 Dodgers were the best team? Or the 1990 Reds? Or the 1997/2003 Marlins?

[riverside sluggers]

in the end, the best team prevails and it wasnt the Cardinals. face it

 

They basically won every series in a sweep.

 

the yanks/sox series wasnt won by a sweep, but as you know coming from behind after dropping first 3 games. something only the best team could be be able to do...

[Moose]

Alright, this may sound better. The best team in the regular season was swept by the best team in the postseason. With that said, the Red Sox were the best team in all of baseball.

[MC Hammer]

The Cardinals were the best team. The Red Sox were the hottest team. They basically won every series in a sweep. Are you telling me that the 1988 Dodgers were the best team? Or the 1990 Reds? Or the 1997/2003 Marlins?

No the Cardinals did not have the best team. How many times must we go over this. Our pitching staff was far superior, and our offense was better, not to mention we had a lights out closer at the time. What else decides how good a team is?

[ORS]

The Cardinals were the best team. The Red Sox were the hottest team. They basically won every series in a sweep. Are you telling me that the 1988 Dodgers were the best team? Or the 1990 Reds? Or the 1997/2003 Marlins?

I think I've made my position on this topic abundantly clear in the thread. Final regular season record matters, but it isn't the be-all end-all determinant for deciding who the best team is. Look at all of the other variables.

[Moose]

That's why I said basically. What I meant by that is that all of their postseason wins were consecutive.

[redsoxrules]

That's why I said basically. What I meant by that is that all of their postseason wins were consecutive.

 

ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE THE f***ING BEST

[riverside sluggers]

not all of the sox wins were consecutive in the post-season

[Moose]

not all of the sox wins were consecutive in the post-season

 

Forgot to add that I meant in each series.

[26 to 6]

WTF are you smoking crack ,thats the stupidest thing ive heard , whoever wins the world series is the best team,boston won cause they were good under pressure ,better clutch hitting and they didnt CHOKE!and the playoffs counts as a season as well, the cardinals had the better record BUT not good under pressure and they choked. a team that CHOKES isnt good like the yanks did last year (get over it that you guys choke and admit boston was the best in 2004) it dont matter if you have the best record in season, cause the playoffs counts as part of the season as well. in the playoffs is when we see who can get the clutch hit ,come back from behind,good pitching , and if you cant do that in the playoffs you aint the f***ing best team,thats like me saying the yankee team that won 4 WS in the late 90 sucked big time, f***ing please ,by me saying that would make me jealous oh wait a min i think 26 to 6 is

Whoever wins the World Series is the best team? Thats fine, I can live with you guys saying that. But when I asked if you guys would say that if the Yankees won the World Series this year, you guys said no. So make up your f***ing mind.

 

It's not the best team who wins the World Series, it's the hottest team who does.

thank you. And Thats exactly what the Red Sox were last year. And because they were hot, they won a championship.

[ARod2212]

WTF are you smoking crack ,thats the stupidest thing ive heard , whoever wins the world series is the best team,boston won cause they were good under pressure ,better clutch hitting and they didnt CHOKE!and the playoffs counts as a season as well, the cardinals had the better record BUT not good under pressure and they choked. a team that CHOKES isnt good like the yanks did last year (get over it that you guys choke and admit boston was the best in 2004) it dont matter if you have the best record in season, cause the playoffs counts as part of the season as well. in the playoffs is when we see who can get the clutch hit ,come back from behind,good pitching , and if you cant do that in the playoffs you aint the f***ing best team,thats like me saying the yankee team that won 4 WS in the late 90 sucked big time, f***ing please ,by me saying that would make me jealous oh wait a min i think 26 to 6 is

First of all, I've never been in favor of death to people, but idiots like you make me reconsider. Rule of thumb, saying choke 35 times doesn't make you right. Perhaps you should look up the grammatical errors of run on sentences, punctuation, capitalization and spelling too. And laughing at your own jokes is a sign of self consciousness and what many qualify as 'loser' behavior.

 

 

Back to the topic-

Boston wasn't even the best team in their division in 2004. The Yankees (yeah them) had a better record of 3 games over a 162 game sample of baseball. The Red Sox had a 1 game advantage over 7 games of baseball. Now which do you think would be a more accurate sample size? Test a theory seven times, or over a dozen if you want to say the whole postseason.. or test it 162 times and see who is best?

 

Any team can go on a hot streak. The Dodgers went on a 12-2 run to start the year. Baltimore was in first for 2 and half months. So just because a team gets hot in October instead of May means they were the best team that year?

 

The USSR hockey team in 1980 was hands down the best hockey team in the world. However, the United States beat them and went on to win the Gold Medal. They weren't better than the Soviets.

 

You ever hear of a team that is built for the playoffs? That was Boston last year, Florida two years ago, Arizona 4 years ago. Teams that have spectacular pitching(Pedro, Schilling) (Beckett, Willis, Pavano) (Johnson, Schilling) at the top and a capable offense. That's because those teams are well designed to go on a hot streak in a short series. The Yankees are built like that this season, and should they make it to the playoffs could win the whole thing. However, I find it comical to believe they were the best team this year, even if they won the whole thing. The last time the best team won the World Series was 1998.

 

 

I'm not cheapening the Championship, but the logic that the best team always wins in October isn't valid.

 

And not that I, nor anyone else cares who the best team was. It's just an argument.

[Moose]

The Mariners were certainly the best team in 2001, who just happened to choke in the playoffs. The best team can either win it all or choke, but the hottest team can only do one thing: win it all.

[26 to 6]

No the Cardinals did not have the best team. How many times must we go over this. Our pitching staff was far superior, and our offense was better, not to mention we had a lights out closer at the time. What else decides how good a team is?

I think its ridiculous that you think the Sox had a better offense.

 

I am going to compare the players with an unbiased judgement.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the overall comparison. Defense, Offense, everything.

C: Matheny

1B: Pujols > Millar/Mientkiewicz (No arguement)

2B: Womack > Bellhorn (Bellhorn had the upperhand with the bat at the time, but not as good defensively as Womack, and Womack was a great leadoff hitter last Year)

3B: Rolen > Mueller (No arguement)

SS: Renteria > Cabrera (argueable, but I think most would agree that Rent is better)

LF: Sanders

CF: Edmonds > Damon (argueable, but Edmonds is better defesively, better arm, hits for power and average. He's the better player)

RF: Walker = Nixon (couldnt really choose one or the other)

DH: Taguchi

 

STL: 5

BOS: 3

 

This is the Offensive comparison.

C: Matheny

1B: Pujols > Millar/Mientkiewicz (No arguement)

2B: Womack

3B: Rolen > Mueller (No arguement)

SS: Renteria > Cabrera (argueable, but mose would agree with me)

LF: Sanders

CF: Edmonds > Damon (Edmonds hits for power, average, and is clutch)

RF: Walker > Nixon (Nixon was out most of the season, and the postseason they were practically even. Has to go to Walker)

DH: Taguchi

 

STL: 5

BOS: 4

 

This is the Defensive comparison.

C: Matheny > Varitek (Seriously...no arguement)

1B: Pujols > Millar (No arguement)

Pujols

Pujols > Ortiz (No arguement)

2B: Womack > Bellhorn (No arguement)

3B: Rolen = Mueller (I say Rolen personally, but its too close to go with one or the other, and if I went with Roled you guys would tear me a new one)

SS: Renteria

LF: Sanders > Ramirez (c'mon RSN, lets be serious, Manny is not a good fielder despite his occasional great catches)

CF: Edmonds > Damon (close, but I go with Edmonds)

RF: Walker = Nixon (again, too close to call with these two)

 

STL: 6

Bos: 2

 

This is the Pitching comparison.

Rotation: Cardinals

Middle Relief/Setup: Cardinal = Red Sox (I think King, Kline, Tavarez is as good as Timlin, Embree, Myers, but you could argue either way)

Closer: Cardinals

 

STL: 0

BOS: 2

 

End Tally

STL: 16

BOS: 11

 

------------------------------------------------

There was probably no point in me posting it because you guys will never accept it, especially since its being posted by a Yankee fan. And you might think it was biased (i dont see how, but im sure you guys will find a way) and Ill probably take a lot of s*** for it, but this is the most nuetral comparison I could think up.

[26 to 6]

I find it comical to believe they were the best team this year, even if they won the whole thing.

As do I, thats why I asked them since they consider Boston the best team last year because they won it all, would they do the same this year if the Yankees won it all and of coarse they said no.

 

Even if the Yankees won the Series it would be ludicrous to declare them the Leagues best team in the year 2005

[ORS]

While your all-star balloting list is impressive, I think perhaps the most important metric in comparing two offenses is blatanly omitted. Total runs scored, which Boston will be leading the league in for the 3rd consecutive year this year.

 

EDIT: I decided to look these up as well. The Sox out performed the Cardinals as a team in all of these categories: OPS, SLG, OBP, BA, HR, 2B, 3B, and scored 94 more runs. Comparing the two is juvenile.

 

If you take total record (regular and post season) the Cardinals were (112-65) and the Sox were (109-67), which is only 2 games better in the loss column over 176 games. The Sox had better pitching, as you admitted, and a much better offense, as I'm claiming. How aren't they the better team? I just don't get the logic.

 

EDIT II: You did a run down of the starting lineups position by position, and I can't argue with your assessment there. To be fair, you'd need to do a pitcher by pitcher comparison. Otherwise, the Sox advantage is grouped together, lessening the effect of a cumulative result.

[26 to 6]

While your all-star balloting list is impressive, I think perhaps the most important metric in comparing two offenses is blatanly omitted. Total runs scored, which Boston will be leading the league in for the 3rd consecutive year this year.

I was just doing a player/player comparrison. I didnt look at any stats or anthing, everything was done quickly off the top of my head, if you would like I could do a more thorough comparison later on tonight.

[ORS]

I already did one, look at my editted post.

[26 to 6]

I already did one, look at my editted post.

youre right that I should do a pitcher by pitcher comparison, but I was just trying to do it quickly. I didnt have the patience to sit there and do all of that, I was barely able to do what I did. Im going to go and relax and hopefully I feel better (still feeling prettycrappy from my surgery 2 fridays ago, the one that caused me to miss the game) and then ill do a more in depth comparison on the pitchers.

[redsoxrules]

Whoever wins the World Series is the best team? Thats fine, I can live with you guys saying that. But when I asked if you guys would say that if the Yankees won the World Series this year, you guys said no. So make up your f***ing mind.

 

i never said that

[26 to 6]

Whoever wins the World Series is the best team? Thats fine, I can live with you guys saying that. But when I asked if you guys would say that if the Yankees won the World Series this year, you guys said no. So make up your f***ing mind.

 

i never said that

did you answer either way??

 

I dont remember

[element1151]

It's not the best team who wins the World Series, it's the hottest team who does.

That doesn't mean the best team can't win the World Series.

 

This is the Pitching comparison.

Rotation: Cardinals

Middle Relief/Setup: Cardinal = Red Sox (I think King, Kline, Tavarez is as good as Timlin, Embree, Myers, but you could argue either way)

Closer: Cardinals

 

STL: 0

BOS: 2

This is where you kill your own argument

Pitching wins championships. How many runs total did the Cardinals score the entire World Series? Only 12 runs, and 9 of those where in the first game. After that, we held the Cards to 2, 1, and 0 runs in game 2, 3, and 4. The rest doesn't really matter if you pitching staff is that dominant.

[element1151]

so you are denying that the Cardinals were the best team in baseball last year? Are you denying that Seattle was the best team in baseball in 2001? You're ridiculous, the team with the best record is the best team of that season (as I said, postseason is a different story)

Yes. Seattle wasn't the best team in 2001. The best regular season team, yes, but they crumbled when it counted. Why did the Yankees beat the Mariners in 2001? Because the Yanks were built for the playoffs and the M's weren't. In my book if you can't win in the postseason, then you shouldn't be considered the best team in the game. The Cardinals are arguable, because they did make the World Series, but a team like the Mariners, no.

[Moose]

That doesn't mean the best team can't win the World Series.

 

The Mariners were certainly the best team in 2001, who just happened to choke in the playoffs. The best team can either win it all or choke, but the hottest team can only do one thing: win it all.

[element1151]

I still disagree that the M's were the best in 01, but I do now realize that you said the same thing.

 

[Retract that part of my post]

[Moose]

Whatever, man.