The official Bellhorn thread

[stocker323]

I know he's not a DAMN STAR. trust me. but if you want a team full of super stars then you sound like a Yankee fan. he's a valuable team player and does what he can for the team. it's just amazing to me how quickly people forget all the good players have done and want them shipped out. it's a little ridiculous.

 

and I'm fully aware of what Manny can do. but he should start doing it. he gets paid a hell of a lot more than Mark and that's why I jump all over him for not producing, sorry.

He's not a superstar your right, but he is a below average 2nd baseman. His career highs are that of a below 2nd baseman, so while he may be approaching his career average, it is a mediocre average. Is it too much like a Yankee fan to ask for an above average 2nd baseman? Not a great one, just above average.

[soxie thefangirl]

as far as defense he was the best last year. it's not like I'm gonna convince all the Bellhorn haters out there to change their minds so I'm just gonna drop this. I'm far too annoyed by people picking on people like Bellhorn when this whole team is just falling apart to the point that they're replacing Manny in tonight's lineup with Millar.

[stocker323]

as far as defense he was the best last year. it's not like I'm gonna convince all the Bellhorn haters out there to change their minds so I'm just gonna drop this. I'm far too annoyed by people picking on people like Bellhorn when this whole team is just falling apart to the point that they're replacing Manny in tonight's lineup with Millar.

I don't know why Tito is doing this. Manny just had a freaking 9 game hit streak broken in which he hit .395. He may not have the power numbers lately, but he has been performing. I just don't see how Manny has been "struggling" lately.

[soxie thefangirl]

he loves to ground into double plays. not as much as Rent-A-Wreck, but close enough. and he wants to give Millar time AB since he got some heat. whatever works. obviously we're losing now, two games in a row and as much as everyone would like to blame for the losses somehow, he actually was productive over the 2 games. we'll see what Millar does.

[RedSoxRooter]

I've always stood by Bellhorn :wetodd:.

[Soxfan1]

I think we should trade for juinor spiver. The brewerers are looking to trade him and I don't think they'd expect much in return anyway.

[stocker323]

Well Polanco was apparently available but he just got traded to Detroit, would have like to see the Sox take a shot with him. I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit looked to trade him again.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Mark Bellhorn is a good player...if we were a small martket team like the freakin devil rays.

 

Just to compare Manny and Bellhorn over the past 10 days, so we can cut this "bellhorn has been better then manny and other guys!!" thing.

 

Bellhorn:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

37 7 10 0 3 5 11 0 .270

 

Manny:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

40 6 15 0 5 1 8 0 .375

 

OWNED.

 

Now for some other guys.

 

Nixon:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

30 2 6 0 3 4 1 1 .200

 

Damon:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

40 4 15 0 8 1 2 2 .375

 

Millar:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

37 6 12 2 4 0 5 0 .324

 

Mueller:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

32 7 7 0 2 5 3 0 .219

 

Renteria:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

42 8 12 2 7 1 7 0 .286

 

Ortiz:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

37 5 14 3 12 6 9 0 .378

 

Varitek:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

29 3 8 1 5 4 7 0 .276

 

Payton:

AB R H HR RBI BB SO SB AVG

23 7 8 1 3 2 0 0 .348

 

 

So everyone with the exception of Mueller and Nixon and maybe Varitek if you want to stretch it, is doing better, Bellhorn is crap. Thank good Damon is better so i don't have to see another day of Bellhorn leading off. If i had to see bellhorn lead off again i'll throw up and hopefully choke to death on my own vomit. My god even Payton, a freakin backup, is better.

 

 

Female fans can anger me sometimes. They like one guy and never seem to be able to accept that the guy is complete crap, and just back them up because she thinks he's "Cute" or "cool" or a "leader".

[soxie thefangirl]

thanks for the insult. but I know all there is to know about baseball and thanks for making it seem like I like a certain player because he is cute. typical of some guys I guess.

[YanksHater213]

You see while Bellhorn might not be the best, he is valuable this team. Hes doesnt blab in the media, and he is a fairly decent hitter. Come on guys, give him a chance. Next year though, I'd like to see either Hanley or Pedroia.

[ClementRulez30]

No offense ClementRulez, but I can understand your point without all the exclamation marks.

AHAHAHAHAHA its because my period button is busted i cant use it

[ClementRulez30]

he loves to ground into double plays. not as much as Rent-A-Wreck, but close enough. and he wants to give Millar time AB since he got some heat. whatever works. obviously we're losing now, two games in a row and as much as everyone would like to blame for the losses somehow, he actually was productive over the 2 games. we'll see what Millar does.

 

Hey, soxie the fan girl, i like your loyality but bellhorn really has to go! I mean he sucks~

[RedSoxGirl320]

I also love Bellhorn. I mean yeah he isnt the greatest red sox player but he is still good.

[RedSoxGirl320]

Female fans can anger me sometimes. They like one guy and never seem to be able to accept that the guy is complete crap, and just back them up because she thinks he's "Cute" or "cool" or a "leader".

 

Ok yeah i think Bellhorn is hott but yes he is kinda bad. But i like how she sticks by Bellhorn. I love him and would hate to see him go but if its his time to go then he will go.

 

And the Female-Fans just them not the males?

 

~*Katie

[RedSoxRooter]

Wow. Never thought I'd see the day where I would actually defend the guy, but here goes.

 

Bellhorn is a freak. He really is. Wasn't he like the best offensive 2nd baseman last year in a lot of categories? He's certainly good for 15 HRs a year if he plays full time.

 

I have him figured out. The guy, like almost all MLB hitters, can hit a fastball over the plate. Anything, including fastballs, off the plate he takes. It really is uncanny how well he does this. The problem is when a pitcher can throw something other than a fastball for a strike. He can't hit anything but a fastball over the plate. Period. If you can throw a slider over, he's going to K or pop up.

 

He's not a gold glove 2nd baseman, but he can turn the DP and throw accurately to 1b. Actually, I can't remember the last bad throw he's made (and that's with Millar at first). There is no way that Todd Walker is a better second baseman defensively.

 

The strike outs kill, but you also know he's going to get on base once or twice a game and from the number 9 slot, that's damn good. HE SHOULD NEVER LEAD OFF. EVER.

 

He's quiet, makes next to peanuts and is a team player.

 

If he could bat .270 and K less, I'd actually be quite happy with him.

 

The more significant problems with this team include:

 

Not having Schilling. His return, if he's close to being as effective as last year, will stablize the entire rotation. The starters will all improve.

 

The bullpen will not be overused (except in Wells starts) and will be more effective too.

 

Wells. Fatboy is no better than a #5. I was completely wrong in assessing him over the winter. The guy sucks monkey nutz and should be released if Schilling comes back healthy. The fat f***. I hope he chokes on a donut, the ex-Yankee bastard.

 

Manny. He is really starting to worry me. I'm sure he'll come around, but maybe this is life without steriods. :dunno: Or is he "unhappy" again?

 

Renteria. He has got to make the adjustment to the AL. I'll give him time, but he just doesn't look like a 10 million dollar player.

 

Question: You have two outs in the 9th, bases loaded, tying run on 3rd. Who would you rather see at the plate? Renteria or Bellhorn?

[soxie thefangirl]

thanks. well put.

 

I'd say Bellhorn but I'm biased. but honestly, the chances of Edgar grounding out are way too good. at least Bellhorn might walk or hit a double, he rarely ever grounds out.

[PeskysPole49]

As much as bellhorn sucks, I can't imagine seeing someone other than Bellhorns 12 out there. Plus, he did give some clutch hits when we needed him last year

[DOrtiz4prez]

As much as bellhorn sucks, I can't imagine seeing someone other than Bellhorns 12 out there. Plus, he did give some clutch hits when we needed him last year

 

Like against the Yankees baby.

[PeskysPole49]

Wow. Never thought I'd see the day where I would actually defend the guy, but here goes.

 

Bellhorn is a freak. He really is. Wasn't he like the best offensive 2nd baseman last year in a lot of categories? He's certainly good for 15 HRs a year if he plays full time.

 

I have him figured out. The guy, like almost all MLB hitters, can hit a fastball over the plate. Anything, including fastballs, off the plate he takes. It really is uncanny how well he does this. The problem is when a pitcher can throw something other than a fastball for a strike. He can't hit anything but a fastball over the plate. Period. If you can throw a slider over, he's going to K or pop up.

 

He's not a gold glove 2nd baseman, but he can turn the DP and throw accurately to 1b. Actually, I can't remember the last bad throw he's made (and that's with Millar at first). There is no way that Todd Walker is a better second baseman defensively.

 

The strike outs kill, but you also know he's going to get on base once or twice a game and from the number 9 slot, that's damn good. HE SHOULD NEVER LEAD OFF. EVER.

 

He's quiet, makes next to peanuts and is a team player.

 

If he could bat .270 and K less, I'd actually be quite happy with him.

 

The more significant problems with this team include:

 

Not having Schilling. His return, if he's close to being as effective as last year, will stablize the entire rotation. The starters will all improve.

 

The bullpen will not be overused (except in Wells starts) and will be more effective too.

 

Wells. Fatboy is no better than a #5. I was completely wrong in assessing him over the winter. The guy sucks monkey nutz and should be released if Schilling comes back healthy. The fat f***. I hope he chokes on a donut, the ex-Yankee bastard.

 

Manny. He is really starting to worry me. I'm sure he'll come around, but maybe this is life without steriods. :dunno: Or is he "unhappy" again?

 

Renteria. He has got to make the adjustment to the AL. I'll give him time, but he just doesn't look like a 10 million dollar player.

 

Question: You have two outs in the 9th, bases loaded, tying run on 3rd. Who would you rather see at the plate? Renteria or Bellhorn?

nicely put!

[RedSoxRooter]

And a big hit against the Cardinals (Pole shot).

 

I so love being World Series Champs. I was telling a guy today "yeah, St. Louis is kicking our ass right now, but ya know what? IT DOESN'T f***ING MATTER BECAUSE WE SWEPT THEM IN THE MOTHERf***ING WORLD f***ING SERIES, *******"

 

God that felt great.

[Manny Goes Boom]

Ive been watching this unfold for awhile now (Bellhorn argument), and this wont seem to die. I mean guys struggle...but what bugged me was comparing him to Manny (hence my username) and we all (at least the Bellhorn fans) seem to glorify his walks, and he doesnt even lead the team (and Papi has ONE IBB so dont give me that), but lets look at the stats shall we...

 

M Bellhorn

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

BOS 2B 53 176 26 43 15 0 2 15 64 30 64 1 0 .353 .364 .244

 

M Ramirez

BOS OF 56 205 32 52 11 1 11 43 98 26 47 1 0 .345 .478 .254

 

D Ortiz

BOS DH 58 222 38 66 17 0 13 46 122 31 45 0 0 .381 .550 .297

 

E Renteria

BOS SS 53 217 30 59 8 2 4 21 83 14 32 3 0 .316 .382 .272

 

So, you Bellhorn lovers, don't bash Renteria again EVER, cause the only thing Bellhorn has on Renteria is his walks, OBP (Cause of the walks) and OPS (AGAIN, the walks), and 2B ( and copmparing him to Manny is FOOLISH because Manny has him in every MAJOR offensive category except doubles and OBP (cause of his walks). Yes Manny is scuffling, but as a few others have said before, we are NOT worried because he is much better than this...

 

OH, and if you say bellhorn turns the BEST double play, or his fielding is great (I'll admit he is a good fielder, but certainly not the BEST) take a look at these...

 

Player TEAM POS G GS INN TC PO A E DP PB SB CS RF FPCT

1. B Boone SEA 2B 57 57 494.2 246 100 139 7 29 --- --- --- 4.35 .972

2. J Spivey MIL 2B 47 45 395.0 212 92 113 7 26 --- --- --- 4.67 .967

3. C Counsell ARI 2B 52 52 460.0 294 110 178 6 37 --- --- --- 5.63 .980

4. M Bellhorn BOS 2B 51 50 435.2 259 91 164 4 38 --- --- --- 5.27 .985

5. L Castillo FLA 2B 36 36 310.0 209 83 124 2 38 --- --- --- 6.01 .990

 

Defensively, he may be up there among the "best" ( I picked four pretty good ones, and ones mentioned on here to replace him with) but lets look at the same five guys offensive production this season...

 

Player TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG

1. B Boone SEA 2B 57 211 22 52 13 2 5 29 84 17 38 3 1 .310 .398 .246

2. C Counsell ARI 2B 54 204 33 60 18 0 3 20 87 32 22 9 3 .399 .426 .294

3. J Spivey MIL 2B 48 178 21 42 8 1 5 17 67 18 56 7 3 .310 .376 .236

4. M Bellhorn BOS 2B 53 176 26 43 15 0 2 15 64 30 64 1 0 .353 .364 .244

5. L Castillo FLA 2B 37 131 27 41 3 2 0 8 48 24 9 5 3 .419 .366 .313

 

So, he's got some defense, (he doesn't lead these specific five) but hes up there. I'll give him that.

 

And, AGAIN, the only thing he leads these five in is walks and is third in runs socred (but look at it this way, he walked 12 more times than Spivey and 13 more times than Boone, think how many more runs scored they would have) granted that has some to do with our scuffling offense as a whole, (so many walks and not as many runs) were not like we should be so that I wont concern myself with in regards to this. So all I have to say is, he is a mediocre second baseman who did some huge things LAST YEAR (Which I am VERY grateful), but hasn't done much this year. Yes he does walk (DUH) but he also strikes out ALOT. So besides walks and some runs scored and productive defense (best word to describe it if you ask me), whats his production to the 2005 Boston Red Sox?

[Sox fan in Tex]

How can this thread get 120 responses? And what has Bellhorn done to get some many people to like him? He's not what you would call the fan favorite. More like the fan punching bag.

[Manny Goes Boom]

I wouldn't say that "so many" people are liking him on here, this is more like a few vs. many argument and your not helping the how did this thread get 120 responses...LOL

[Sox fan in Tex]

Wait, what were you saying about Rent? He just gave us a key run against the Cardinals giving us some extra run support. Hey Bellhorn, what have you done for me lately?

[Manny Goes Boom]

Rent, Ive been in his corner since we've signed him...

 

I was just saying that those who seem to try to compare Bellhorn to Rent are nuts and that his numbers are far superior to Bellhorn's and that NOBODY should compare those two (or Manny and Bellhorn), because its not even close. But I LOVE Rent, Im glad hes playing well

[Sox fan in Tex]

Yeah, that 'what were you saying about Rent' was for whoever called him 'Rent-a-wreck' and also compared Edgar to Blowhorn. Hey, I got a comparison. Let's compare "flip em off" Kim to Bellhorn.

[Sox fan in Tex]

To add more numbers to the equation of why we should bench Bellhorn, here you go (numbers prior to the St. Louis series):

 

76% of the time Bellhorn gets up to bat he's an out. Of that 76%, 32% is a strikeout and 11% being a walk. How horrible is that?

[ClementRulez30]

Bellhorn hasn't done jackshit! Manny was just in a slump. Renteria you shouldn't expect him to have great at bats all the time, because he he isn't a great power hitter.

[ClementRulez30]

thanks. well put.

 

I'd say Bellhorn but I'm biased. but honestly, the chances of Edgar grounding out are way too good. at least Bellhorn might walk or hit a double, he rarely ever grounds out.

 

Well.... the reason he rarely hits the ball is because he normally strikesout, and, yes he need have some clutch hits last year, but there are better 2nd basemans who can hit better than him.

[BellhornLove]

I Love Bellhorn They should keep him:

 

He does strike out a lot but he also gets some good clutch hits. I think a strikeout is the same as a ground out (unless you have runners on base) and I'vve noticed Ortiz strikes out a lot too. Bellhorn is a great infeilder as well. He does make some errors but so does Edgar, Millar and Mueller. Maybe not as much as Bellhorn but it happens.

 

Keep him