Hugh2

Not when he's used right. He's a nice bench bat. Outfield is thin and what upgrades exist? Hey we could trade our prospect capital for an outfielder when we need pitchers I suppose.

In no permutation of my future projections is Ref a starter. He doesn't move any needles, he's a nice bench bat.

They have a little bit more than 8 mil to spend. I really really really like Turner, but I really really really like Masa not playing the field too.

Exactly, plus there's nothing in free agency, or very slim pickings on the position side. They really should explore retaining Duval for next year.

Well if Turner walks you can replace him with Yoshida. Now your defense just got 100% better with Duran replacing him in LF and the future GG Rafaela roaming CF. Sox could use a RHH

I agree. So if you expect to compete next year you don't trade Dugo and hope Anthony is his replacement. Still Masa may be even worse in the outfield by then, Duran could turn back into a Pumpkin and Rafaela may never hit. The outfield is THIN. Our outfield depth is similar to our starting pitching depth. Some great options for the BOTRS and the bullpen but not much high-end talent at the MLB level. Unless we are talking about signing Teoscar Hernandez or Cody Bellinger, we really have no business trading Dugo/Ref/Abreu/Duran.

Fair, but if you're trading away that talent and you don't have much to replace it then you're effectively already giving up on the 2024 season. No thank you,

We are really in zero position to be trading outfielders. Have you guys seen next years free-agent class? What do you do if Duran turns into a pumpkin, or someone goes down? I'd be hoarding my outfield depth like humanity depends on it right now.

And how often are we told to ignore milb stats. SO much more at play BUT - He has sucked vs. LHP at the MLB level, which is the only level that scouts. And that matches up verbatim with his scouting. I'll believe in that until proven otherwise. "Starts open and vertical with his hands high and his front foot inverted. Medium high-leg kick. Above-average bat speed. Vertical swing path, makes a lot of contact in the air. Passive approach. Will take a walk, but also strikes out a lot due to working consistent deep counts. Will have to show he can consistently hit high fastballs at the major league level as he has struggled at times with velocity up in the zone in the minors. Does a good job recognizing spin and has shown the ability to make adjustments within an at-bat. Has some platoon splits and seems to see the ball more comfortably against right-handed pitching. Potential below-average hit tool." "Potential up-and-down depth outfielder. Ceiling of a major league platoon outfielder. Development of hit tool will determine his major league potential. Has raw power and will take a walk, but needs to cut down on his swing-and-miss and show he can consistently make contact and impact the baseball against advanced pitching."

How do you expect them to spend the money? there's literally nothing on the position player side. Particularly in positions of need.

There's more fish in the sea. I'm more concerned with getting two top teir guys in. Sell me on another two. Nola/Yama....OK lets do that.

In how many at-bats? 66??? his greater body of work in the minors shows splits and scouts peg him as a platoon bat as well. Not saying he can't improve upon that projection, but I'm not certainly sold yet.

They almost have too. They have money that will be spent and the position player free agent class is historically bad. Yet there's plenty of pitching and the Red Sox need pitching, I will literally be dumbfounded if they do not buy pitching this offseason.

The free agent market for position players is going to be historically bad this offseason. Teams looking to upgrade and get creative would find a lot of value in guys like Abreu, Valdez, and Refsnyder if they believe they can be legit platoon partners and they have the right fit for them on their roster. Main piece? no but they can be part of a bigger deal if the pieces align right.

Bloom may have done a decent job at building the farm, and I don't disapprove of him at the same level as most, but if he doesn't grow the balls to fix the rotation this offseason he's just not the right guy for the job to take this team to the next level. I think he gets fired in the middle of next season if the Sox are serious contenders.

Needing Starting pitchers 1,2,3 is a pretty freaking major. I don't think we need that, I think we need 1 and 3. Bello is your #2. If Sale is healthy you have an elite rotation, but you can't bank on that, you take it as a bonus if it happens and go out and get yourself two starting pitchers this offseason.

Yes, but the Sox have had an affinity to "spread the money around" which is fine, but sometimes you gotta go big.....and they have not done that. Or at the very least, they have done a s*** poor job of building the rotation. The rotation is just a mix of injury concern, unproven younger talent, and BOTR guys. They have 4 guys on the roster that I think could be fine #4 #5 starters, and that's great because you push 2-3 of those guys to the pen where they can be elite. But having all of Whitlock/Houck/Crawford/Pivetta in the rotation is just a recipee for disaster. If I was emperor of the Red Sox, I'm getting two premium starting pitchers this offseason. Or at the very least ONE top teir guy and someone in that close 2nd teir like Sonny Gray. I would not Hate Gray/SNell

It's a small sample size but his splits are spot on with his "platoon projection" .258 OPS VS. LHP .756 OPS VS. RHP Given his subpar D, you'd expect a little bit more from the left side but I think he can improve upon that. That can be a nice player to have depending on your roster, you can only put 26 guys on there so his profile could add a lot of value to a team....or not. It's weird because Abreu fits a similar profile in the outfield, actually, I think he and REF would make a nice platoon. But you can only have so many platoon guys on your roster. I'd like some of those spots to be guys who have positional versatility and plus defense. I don't think both can fit into Boston's future plans.

A realistic view of the 2023 season is it’s over for the Sox. Shut guys down, and start holding tryouts for next years team.

In terms of “farm building” There’s a difference between finishing last and getting a top 5 pick, then finishing last and getting the 19th pick. I agree a strong farm alone does you nothing, but the Mets have shown us you just can’t throw money at the problem either. We should not dismiss the strength of this farm and its implications on the future potential of this team. You have to develop players if you want MLB success, you absolutely HAVE too. Now with that said, you have to make good investments at the MLB level as well. The Sox have failed here, Henry and Bloom can share the blame. They need to make better decisions and not be afraid to spend a little money to buy premium players to plug up positions of need.

I remember being BIG on the Kodai Senga bandwagon. Imagine how much better this team would be with him in the rotation instead of adding Kluber, that would also of pushed one of Houk/Whitlock to the pen and maybe even keeping them more healthy. Probably 4-5 more wins at least and in serious contention for the WC right now. That's ok....I'll take me some Yama

Who said that?

I don't really remember anyone saying that, there were those who were saying if everyone was healthy that the rotation would be crowded and had potential and that was true. Sale got hurt Whitlock got hurt Houck got hurt Kluber got hurt (ok he just sucked) Paxton, not injured but obviously fatigued and slowing down. More than half of their opening-day rotation missed significant time. The way Sale and Paxton were pitching back in June was promising, after a slow start the pitching staff was starting to look really good and then it fell apart. It pretty much looked like what people said could happen WAS happening. I know because I was the captain of that club and I was also very specific to say there was a ton of injury risk to this rotation and we saw exactly that happen throughout the year. So, I don't think anyone sold anyone a false bill of goods here.

Getting more of a luck at Rafaela at the MLB level and you can see how the scouting report fits him. He found himself down 1-2 in a count where he should have been up 3-1, because he just swings at everything. But the contact skills are there, and that may or may not be enough to make up for his inability to lay off bad pitches. Maybe now that he's reached MLB and will face the best pitching he will ever see without having to worry about taking that next step some experience will be useful, or perhaps some guys can rub off on him. Sit him next to Casas.

The question is, what decent starting pitcher could he of signed last year? People will say Eovaldi and Wacha, but um....they were ours that year and we couldn't do crap with them. Also, you're not signing guys to one year. SIgning those guys last year might end up meaning they don't sign a top teir free agent pitcher this year and the pitching class is so much better. I tend to look at things on a long-term horizon. Let's say the Sox go out and sign Yama this offseason, well, his next 5 years may be a LOT better than Verlander will be the next few years. 25>105 People will say "yeah but the Sox won't go out and sign anyone this offseason" and they very well may be right. But if they didn't touch the crop last year to reset and go after better options this year the overall strategy is good and much better to the long-term health of the organization. It's just hard to build goodwill with people after years of underperformance, injury, lackluster signings and the trading away of Betts.