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Everything posted by notin
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I would consider that a very likely possibility, even if they bring him back on an MiLB contract. I only mention him as a possibility because he has the singular advantage of already being here...
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Lackey gave the Sox 3 awful years (counting the one he missed) up front, but managed to have a great year at exactly the right time, including some stellar postseason work....
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So did John Lackey and RA Dickey. Are they worth $48 mill for 3 years too? I think for MLB starting pitchers, the seasons 2014 through 2016 can be considered a long time ago...
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For the IP he was available. That Bumgarner alleviated 100 more innings from relievers and sixth starters has significant value, too. Bottom line is both contributed equally over a 3 year stretch. And at 4 years younger, Bumgarner is more likely the greater value going forward...
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From 2017 to 2919, Price was worth 6.2 fWAR in 358 IP. From 20178 to 2019, Madison Bumgarner was worth 6.2 fWAR in 458 IP. From 2017 to 2019, Kyle Gibson was woth 6.2 fWAR in 514 IP From 2017 to 2019, Zack Godley was worth 5.8 fWAR in 425 IP. Bumgarner, 4 years younger than Price, received a 5 year $85mill contract for a $17mill AAV. Gibson, 3 years younger than Price, received a 3 year deal $30 mill offer for a $10mill AAV. Godley, 5 years younger than Price, received a minor league contract. Price was the oldest and least durable of these pitchers. He has a big name, and an excellent resume. But to think he would get the same AAV as the other big name in Bumgarner is probably a bit of a pipe dream, especialyl given the differences in age and IP. It's hard to say exactly where the market would have placed him, but a 3 year $16-17mill AAV is absolutely best case scenario if it was possible at all. The only reason to pay that much for Price is if a GM thinks his name still carries significant PR weight so as to bolster ticket sales...
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LOL I’m guessing it’s time to retire if you’re missing those easy lobs by that much. Might be time to consider shuffleboard...
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I edited as quickly as possible paying no attention to the position of the starters...
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It makes you the next Adam Jones...
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How about this?
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Should I say it again?
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I'm hoping he adds at least two experienced arms to the bullpen...
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I figure on a 4 man bench. If Plawecki and Chavis take two spots, that leaves just two more for a utility INF capable of playing SS (unlike Chavis) and an OF. Munoz, Arroyo and Lin are in the running, possibly for one spot. Lin has the upper has the upper hand with the most OF experience, but Munoz has some corner OF exp. as well. But they might actually want a true outfielder who can play CF in an emergency. Now they might give 2B to one of the, to asve money for other holes. But it is not a given and not necessarily a good idea. Now if they deal Chavis, maybe the bench is Arroyo, Munoz and Lin along with Plawecki. But I have my doubts...
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I don't think the Sox drafted Trey Ball or Dalbec with both paths in mind...
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I actually cannot think of any player that any team ever even tried to develop as a position player and a pitcher at the same time. Brendan McKay is the closest I can think of, and he has not played the field since A-ball. Plenty of these two-way types have switched from hitter to pitcher or vice versa at some point, either in the minors (like Matt Bush, Joe Nathan, Rafael Betancourt, Sean Doolittle, and Trevor Hoffman) or in many cases, the majors (Babe Ruth, Lefty O'Doul, Rick Ankiel). The Sox also drafted current Giants 1B Brandon Belt as a pitcher at one time. Sometimes, having both skills gives a player struggling to advance another path he can follow. In cases like former Red Sox CF/LHRP Ron Mahay, it lead to actually having a Major League career. Former Red Sox farmhand Jordan Weems has managed to make the A's bullpen this season after going nowhere as a catcher for years...
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Well, a lot of guys are two way players in college/high school but they are only developed in one of the two roles professionally. Jon Olerud was named Pac-10 Player of the Century because in his senior year, he hit 23 HRs and went 15-0 on the mound. The Blue Jays drafted him that year, but he never pitched an inning for their organization. And then there is Micah Owings, who is the all time home run leader for the Georgia Bulldogs, but went on professionally as a pitcher. You can't avoid these two way guys, but it's rare to let them actually pursue both paths...
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I think Dalbec and Houck are very likely, even if Houck is in middle/long relief role. Chavis has shown himself to be nothing more than a role player and weakside platoon player. Not that there is no value in that, and he handles that role well, but I don't think he is in line for 600 PA. I think he has a bench role locked up if he is not traded. It would be nice if Arroyo and/or Munoz could step in and take over 2B full time. But I would not count on it. I think either one of them can handle a utility INF role, but if the other one is not viewed as the 2B starter, there may be no room on the 25 man roster for him...
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Probably worth pointing out that 21 catchers, including Vazquez, have more fWAR in that timeframe than James McCann. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=100&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=&enddate= Vazquez ranks fifth in fWAR in that time-frame, and the only catcher of the 4 ranked above him who has been traded is JT Realmuto, who was dealt by the small market Marlins as his arbitration years were winding down. In fact, your count of 4 being traded seems off, as Grandal has not been traded anywhere since 2014. And Molina and Contreras have not been traded at all..
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True, but Carrasco has much more glaring health concerns than Eovaldi. In fact, he has to be number one on the list of "Surprising Non-Opt Outs" this year...
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Did you stop reading after that first sentence?
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Given the number of arms they need, he is absolutely part of the plans barring 1) a catastrophic finish to this season or 2) an injury. If Houck opens the season in the very weak bullpen, it frees up that much more budget space for other additions...
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So you think Price made no difference, despite his being 34 years old and owed $96 million? If you're arguing they took him at half price for nothing, that is possible...
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And that is a legitimate fear, not like the one where we all feared Middlebrooks would be the next Mark Reynolds. I'm not sure why people thought that was such a bad thing....
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I think he could have. But how much more is pure speculation...
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If Houck is the #6 guy, wouldn't he start in the minors waiting to be one of the top 5?
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He has not pitched since college. The minors are loaded with position players who were good pitchers in college, and pitchers who were excellent college hitters. Until recently, no one pursued both paths even in the minors. But we are seeing an occasional player now who does, such as Tampa's Brendan McKay. But even in that case, McKay has not played any 1B since A ball. A few have done so in MLB recently, such as Cincinnati's Michael Lorenzen now plays the outfield on occasion. And Milwaukee had am outfielder in 2003-04 named Brooks Kieschnick who also pitched 96 IP in those years. But I think I'd be surprised if Dalbec ever took the mound in anything beyond a mop up capacity...
