moonslav59

I spend time in Maine, every summer. I have no interest in meeting up with trolls.

Agreed. JH can save some money by trimming some of the head honchos.

I totally agree. The Theo addition is not going to placate any fans, if we lose. It might help raise some hopes, right now, for some, but if nothing more is added to the roster, this winter, most fans will not be any more joyful.

I get that, but Price, Lackey and Foulke were all signed for multiple years to be just what you want the team to have- year-to-year, recognizable players. The problem was, none of them stayed healthy. None of them came close to giving us consistent production. All of them ate up a chunk of budget space that limited filling other need areas. All contributed to the ups and downs many fans abhor. (We still did okay with Foulke on the '05 and '06 teams, but won just 86 games in '06.)

I defer to your knowledge of pen pieces, and I totally agree on the great need to add one of those SP'ers. Pushing Houck or Crawford to the pen gives it an enormous boost. Not just with the skills they would bring, but more out of the fact that either could pitch 70-100 IP in relief, which might be 15-20% of all the IP needed by the pen in 2024. It would take a big strain of the rest of the pen arms and lessen the deep dives into the farm to find meaningful innings eaters in the pen. Win-win-win-win. (4 wins with one SP signing.)

I don't like that idea, but it is better than nothing. Maybe he thinks he has "backfilled" the pen, already: Campbell Slaten Criswell Fitts (will be a SP'er to begin 2024 in AAA) Weissert The return of Frank German & Noah Song Maybe he thinks better health and full seasons from these returnees will help fill some gaps: Schreiber Bernardino Mata Murphy, Walter... I've never been a fan of quantity over quality for the pitching staff and depth chart, but I do think we look okay in the 6-15 slots (and beyond #15)of the pen. The 1-5 slots can look pretty good, the more tweeners we have in the pen, instead of the rotation, and adding another top 5 RP'ers would help, but I'd still rather add an innings eater SP'er that would allow us to lessen the depth we have to go to in the pen. Last year, we used 33 pitchers, including Reyes in a couple games. We only had 2 pitchers with over 130 IP. That really kills a pen. We had over 655 IP from our pen, which does not count the "opener" IP or "pen game" starter. We used 27 pitchers in the pen, not counting Reyes. We need to try (or hope) we can- go through 2024 using just 15-17 pitchers from the pen. Hopefully, we won't need to demote any SP'ers to the pen, like we did with Pivetta, Kluber and Whitlock in '23. That alone would help reduce the need to go so deep into the system to fill the need for innings from the pen. Maybe Gio can give us over 180 IP, Bello and Pivetta over 170 and whoever our 4 and 5 is, over 150, but that is likely wishful thinking. Last year Wink gave us 83 IP from the pen and only the pen. I hope we keep him in the pen for another 80-100 IP. Pivetta gave us 56 IP from the pen, including some memorable long outings. Replacing his IP in the pen is crucial. (Whitlock?) Matin (48) and Jansen (45) are essential to our pen success in 2024. If they can repeat 2024, our top two slots are set. The rest of the 2023 pen by most IP: 48 Murphy (He may not even give us 10 IP in '24) 45 Schreiber (missed a chunk of '23) 42 Bernardino (joined us mid season) 31 Bleier- GONE 30 Llovera- GONE 25 Jacques- may be the next guy DFA'd 23 Walter- doubtful contributor in '24 22 Crawford- probably our 4 or 5 SP 21 Brasier- GONE 20 Whitlock (would love to see 70-90 IP from the pen in 2024) 19 Ort-GONE 17 Garza- GONE 13 Kluber-GONE 11 Robertson-GONE 11 Joely-GONE 9 Kelly (missed 5 months) 9 Weiss- GONE 8 Bearclaw- GONE 7 Sherriff, 3 Littell & Scott and 2 Lamet & Faria- ALL GONE Maybe we can get by with 500 IP from the pen. This might be the ideal IP breakdown: 90 Wink 80 Whitlock 55 Schreiber 55 Bernardino 45 Martin 45 Jansen 45 Campbell 40 Slaten 45 Others I know this is a pipe dream, even with 100% good health from the pen. Whitlock or Wink will likely be forced to start some games, and some of the RP'ers I listed will struggle and need to be replaced by someone (Mata, Kelly, Fitts, Murphy, Weissert, Guerrero...?)

I think you are totally right, on this, but imagine what this whole Lester narrative would have been like had he decline, got injured or if his cancer returned, right after an extension. I realize most of us wanted him back, at the time, so this is not really hindsight judging, but my guess is, we'd have a whole different take, if that one over 30 pitchers ended up doing like many do: decline.

They were all big keys for a ring season, for sure. It's hard to determine, if it was worth it. To those who prefer consistent winning and don't like the cycle results, I'd think these kind of signings are what helped lead to the ups and downs.

I agree that the tear down was premature and too extreme, but they dragged out the rebuild by playing it half-way, too often. They kept trying to pretend we were going to be competitive, and the success of the 2021 team convinced them it was working. Yes, they should have kept the core together, longer, but had the traded a few more players, earlier, or instead of letting them walk for nothing, the rebuild might have been just 3-5 years long, not 6-8. The comp pick slot drop due to foolishly going over the tax line was unforgivable. The one year we lose two top players for comp picks, we choose to go over the tax line in a failed sham season. The non trades of Sale, when he had moree value, JD, Nate, ERod, JBJ and even lesser players like Hill, Strahm, Wacha and others were all opportunities lost. We all know Bogey had a no-trade clause, but I do believe he'd have agreed to be traded, if they just owned up to him about no extension being possible. If they had convinced themselves they had a shot at extending him, that makes them look even worse. Trying to walk the line of looking respectable while rebuilding makes it hard to do either.

This pretty much sums it all up.

Nothing done seems to be for the here and now, except the Gio signing. He's like all those one year $43-10M deals rolled into one player. I guess one could say O'Neill is, too. The Theo addition seems more about the long term, but maybe with the idea his addition may placate some of the fan unrest.

Agreed, but not bringing back Kimbrell & Kelly was a sign of change, even before the 2019 dip. (Not replacing them was part of the reason for the dip, too.)

I always appreciated your posts, both here and at that other site. Even when we disagreed, you made good points and backed up your positions with supporting details. I wish you'd post here, more, but I can understand wanting to avoid it.

MLBTR... The Red Sox have acquired catcher Tyler Heineman from the Mets, per announcements from both teams. The latter club, who designated Heineman for assignment earlier this week, receive cash considerations in return. The Sox designated right-hander Max Castillo for assignment in a corresponding move.

Maybe Theo will be our next Lucchino.

Houck was the only "tweener" that spent all of his 2023 games in the rotation. He and Pivetta look like the sure bet starters in 2024, along with Bello & Gio. The 5th starter will likely be shuffled during the season, unless the first guy does well enough to hold it down. I'm guessing Crawford has the inside track, but at this point, who knows. Whit & Wink are "being stretched out," so maybe one of them wins the job in ST'ing.

Exactly, and at best, we just shuffled Paxton and Sale for Gio. We didn't add squat.

Makes sense.

Didn't Swihart's Ghost get banned, last year? Someone else got banned for releasing personal information on certain posters, a few years back.

Theo joins Fenway Sports Group! https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/02/theo-epstein-fenway-sports-group-red-sox-owner-advisor.html

Why Beni? We have 26 left fielders, already. He's also washed up.

Plus the 34th pick in the next draft. I can see why teams are asking for the world on 2+ year pitchers.

We should sign a bunch of one year guys, with the idea of trading them at the deadline.

The thing is, I'm okay with overpays, when needed. I thought the Price signing was just what we needed, and thet he was about as "sure a bet" as you could ever hope for in an "overpay."

That happens, a lot, before a sale of a team.