moonslav59

But when they say "recalled," that can't mean all to the 26, right?

When we traded for Sale, many felt he was minutes from a major injury. His first year, he had 214 IP and 32 GS. He never gave us more tan 158 IP, after that. His 27 GS in 2018 were essential to our record-breaking season, but his 2019 numbers in 25 GS dropped a lot. Nobody is a certain 30+ GS/180+ IP SP'er, but I do think a good GM works to find pitchers who are most likely to do just that. It's almost more important than he skill level- ALMOST. I think Brez tried to do just that with Gio. He swung and missed badly, but how much of it was just hard luck is not easy to determine. The double miss between Gio and Sale was disastrous to our chances, this year. If he just went 1-2, we are likely still playing.

I think it helps adding Gio to the mix, but we subtracted Pivetta, so maybe it's close to a wash. Last full seasons highest fWARs 5.2 Giolito '19, 4.1 in '21 (2.0 in short '20 season) 1.8 in '22 and 0.9 in '23 3.9 Houck '24 2.0 Bello '24 1.9 Crawford '24 (2.4 in '23) 1.1 Criswell '24 0.6 Fitts (4GS) + Priester (1GS) * 1.6 Whitlock '21 (pen)

What might that be? Mayer, Abreu and Dobbins?

Wong was the worst defensive catcher in MLB according to some metrics. He was a plus for batting among catchers, but I think they view him as Teel's eventual back-up who could play 1B or 2B, if needed, and maybe even DH some, if his bat tool improves. He was 26th in Catcher fWAR at 1.7. Since much of fWAR is based on more playing time, his being 13th in PAs by a catcher and 26th ranked is very concerning, to me. That being said, I think we may just add a decent defensive catcher on a 1 year deal to "bridge" to Teel in 2026.

I think MIA will hold off trading Alcantara, in hopes he rebounds and builds up his trade value by the deadline or next winter.

If it wasn't for the high need for a RHB, and let's not fool ourselves about Rafaela's bat vs LHPs being much better than Abreu's, what OF looks best? LF Duran (Ref) CF Anthony (Duran) RF: Abreu (Anthony) or LF: Duran (Ref) CF: Rafaela (Duran/Anthony) RF: Anthony (Ref)

Here is a quick comp between Bloom pitcher additions and Brez pitcher additions (4 years to 1.) Bloom: Whitlock, Pivetta, Wink, Schreiber, Bernardino (Barnes extension & Blier trade) Ottavino Kluber, Richards, Perez I & II, Wacha, Hill, Paxton I Jansen, Martin, Strahm, Kelly, Diekman, Robles, Davis, P Valdez, Sawamura, Andriese Brez: Gios, Criswell, Fitts, Priester, Sandlin Slaten, Weissert, I Campbell, Horn, Anderson, Keller, Uwasawa, garcia, Sims, Paxton II, Hill II Draft (bonus $) Bloom: (Nobody over $600K and one over $500K) 600K Drohan '20 300-600K: E R-C '21, Rogers '22, Dean '22, Duffy '23, Early'23 200-300K Wu-Yelland '20, Olds '21, Ehrlicher '22 Brez: $2M Tolle $1.25M Cason $700K Neely $400K Clarke $300K Aita &Tygart $250K Futrell $200K Brooks I'm pretty sure Brez spent more in bonus money on pitchers over $200M in one year than Bloom did in 4 years combined. There looks to be a marked difference in strategy.

Adding one for depth is okay, but it can't be the be-all-end-all, anymore. Plus, we already have more than our fair share with Gio, Whitlock, Hendriks and Fulmer all considered opening day roster pitchers. That's 4 out of 13.

Agreed, and although the Gio signing did not work, I applauded the effort to attempt to add a durable SP'er, for once. (Again, I was not high on Gio's skills, but I thought his durability was what we needed.) I really like his other attempts at adding to the staff and farm staffs more than Bloom's attempts. Bloom hit on Pivetta and to some extent on Wink, Schreiber, Bernardino and at least Perez gave us innings, but he was supposed to be the "gem in the rough" GM. In less than a full year, Brez has already added close to equal to 4 years of Bloom's best additions. Slaten, Fitts, Priester, Criswell, Sandlin, Weissert, I Campbell, Judice and more pitching draftees than any Bloom draft. Some of these guys have yet to prove they are better than Bloom's additions, and a few downright sucked, this year, but I still like the I Campbell deal and think Weissert is better than some here seem to think he is. I'm hopeful, we start to see better results from the shift in strategy, and maybe the Hendriks & Fulmer stabs in the dark end up helping us in '25. Of course, Gio will be the big determinator.

I think Slaten can hit 99 mph, but I'm not sure I'd say he's elite, just yet. Penrod hits 98, but he has a lot to prove. Whitlock touched 97 and has some nasty complimentary pitches. We have a bunch of pen arms in the 93-96 range, including Wink & Kelly, but they all seem far from elite. I'm really low on our 5-8 slot RP'ers. I think they'd all make very nice 9-12 slot guys in AAA.

deGrom was not "cheap," but your point is valid. Had Kluber been healthy for 2-3 years, he'd have gotten more than $10M/1. I am totally aware of why we signed them and why they were cheaper than healthy pitchers. I'm just sick of this being our only strategy, and now we are doing it for RP'ers, like hendriks and Fulmer. Someday, maybe we strike gold. We ended up doing okay with Wacha, although he missed time, when we needed him most. Even the Sale and Nate deals were injury-risk deals. The Price and porcello deals seem like the last ones we gave to "healthy" pitchers, although both had maxed out their IP totals for several years, beforehand. Porcello started maxing our IP'd at a very early age. It's not about misunderstanding why injury prone pitchers are cheaper: it's about me being sick and tired of that being our only strategy. Many of us were fine with the Kluber signing, as long as it wasn't the only SP'er addition we made. Same with the Richards and Paxton deals. It seems like this was our only strategy until the Gio signing. I fully realize it was a byproduct of tight budgets imposed by JH.

I think some were on the IL or "inactive," and there is no IL list after the season. Maybe it has to do with setting your 26 and 40 man roster for the winter. Don't 26 man roster players get paid more?

The Sox have two players who both led the league in something in 2023 and 2024. Who are they and what did they lead in? Hint: both are pitchers and are under team control for 2025.

I'm all for trading for a SP'er, and there is a better chance of getting a younger one, which normally means less chance of injury or already pitching 180 innings for 5-6 years. I also agree on signing RP'ers as FAs.

Abreu's splits vs LHPs is so awful, I just don't see how he plays over Anthony. I will say that Rafaela being a RHB is not such a big advantage over Abreu, since Rafaela sucks vs RHPs and LHPs. While Rafaela is a great defensive CF'er, Abreu is no slouch on D in RF. I've suggested trading Abreu many times, recently, but trading Rafaela and going with Anthony in CF, Abreu-O'Neill in RF and DH might work out better.

I almost just posted the same exact thought. Even if Gio had an ERA of 4.30, if he gave us 180+ IP, we might have made the dance. Criswell would have gotten way more pen IP, over guys like Chase Anderson and Uwasawa,

I can see this reasoning, but the worst part is, he never recovered from the injury, enough to come near his former glory. Who are the "least (injury) risky" FA SP'ers on the market, this winter? I'm wondering if a guy like Flaherty, with not a ton of IP over his career, but 28-29 GS'd the last 2 years and who just turns 29, next week. I realize he is not the "ace" many of us crave, but maybe he can be a solid #2/3 type guy. (3.89 FIP '23-'24 and 10K/9, but 3 BB/9) I will say, it doesn't make me feel any better than we signed a durable guy like Gio, last winter, only to see him with no starts, but I applaud the effort. (I had concerns about just how good Gio was, more than any injury worry.)

IMO, the Braves knew no more than the Sox, and maybe even less. They took a flyer on Sale and gave up a duplicated value player who had no place to play. They guessed right. We guessed wrong. We rolled the dice 4-5 years in a row and came up short. They rolled the dice and hit bigtime on year one. What made things go from terrible to horrific was Grissom's failure and Gio's season ending injury.

Yup, and more can be added to the list. I'd rather take a chance on someone like them than 7 consecutive one year deals to guys like Kluber.

I get that. The Giolito signing was supposed to be a departure from the high injury-risk signings. Nothing is ever certain in baseball, but our recent history, other than Gio, has been signing higher risk pitchers, and just about all of them missed significant time or just plain sucked- or both. The thing about Yamo is his age. He will likely still give some value. When you sign injury prone pitchers to 1 year deals, sometimes with no recent high IP seasons, the dynamic is different.

There are none, but are you trying to make the point that adding pitchers like deGrom, Kluber, Richards, Paxton, Hendriks, Paxton II, Wacha and Hill are on the same level as adding pitchers with little or no injury history? I'm fed up with these type of signings. I'm not letting the Gio-Sale outcomes make me think it is totally random.

There was also a chance Kluber and Richards could find their old glory days, again. I'm tired of these false hopes. Just because Sale's "false hope" turned into a truth doesn't change the equation, for me. We keep rolling the dice while betting on snake eyes. Instead, we get snake-bitten.

Like maybe... Yoshida ($54M/3), $10M cash and Abreu for Gausman ($44M/2)

Okay, make it 69 IP and that changes everything. The similarities to Sale are remarkable, except he has not had a 2024 type Sale season in a very long time. The success of Sale, this year does not improve the odds on deGrom. $37M was a gross overpay, just as $25M per year for Sale turned out to be. The Sox have made a habit out of having injured SP'ers, and our solution should not be to add another one.