moonslav59

Again, total agreement. The other big plus about adding SP'ers that can go deep in games to save the pen, is that it would push some of our starters that do fibe for 2-3 innings into the long roles in the pen (over guys like Chase Anderson and Keller.) This allows for a few early yanks in bad games and still "saves" the set up men and closer for only key situations, and hopefully not 2 times every 3 games. To me, this could be a good pen: Closer: Addition Set UP: Slaten, Hendriks and add a Sewald type or LHP Mid-Long Relief: Whitlock, Crawford, Criswell That's 7 out of 8 RP'ers. I think we can find one from the long list to fill the 8 slot, well enough. Instead, we start Whit and Crawford, which hurts the pen in several ways.

Probably. It all depends on Mayer, since nobody else can be an even average defensive SS.

We have to plan for not needing pitching at the deadline, even with 3+ on the 60 day IL. I know that sounds like a pipe dream, but needing 3 pitchers every deadline, when the cost is higher is not a sound plan. I know Brez tried to add more pitchers (Gio, Criswell, Slaten, Weissert, I Campbell, Fitts and few fringy pitchers,) but we knew Gio was out for the year and traded Sale, while also losing Paxton, Schreiber and Kluber.) The net gain in numbers was minimal. (I won't get into the quality aspect.) We knew the injuries was not going to end with Gio, and sure enough, Whitlock went down after 4 starts. Others missed some time, here and there, and we also lost some time from some of our best pen arms, like Martin and Slaten. Ideally, we go into 2025 with Criswell, Fitts and Priester as AAA rotation depth. We go into 2025 with Weissert, I Campbell, Kelly, Booser and maybe others as AAA depth, not our 7th and 8th RP'ers. We go into 2025 without looking to August, which turns into September then never for signees like Hendriks and Paxton from 3 years back. Those are failed plans. If we can't learn from those mistakes, we ain't getting anywhere! I know some dislike the slot ranking idea, but to me it highlights what we need more precisely. Here is what we need to be a top 5-10 pitching staff. 1. Better Defense. (Some metrics show our current staff is near top 10, when the fielding is removed.) 2. This template for winter additions: SP1 _____ SP2 Houck SP3 _____ SP4 Bello SP5 Giolito/Crawford (Criswell, Fitts and Priester in AAA) Closer ____ Set Up Slaten Set Up Hendriks LH RP _____ RP5 Whitlock RP6 Crawford (Fitts/Criswell if Crawford in rotation) RP7 Winckowski RP8 Fulmer (Bernardino, I Campbell, Weissert, Guerrero, kelly, Booser, Penrod & Horn in AAA.)

It seems the farther-away prospects just don't carry the value they once did, but those two might be exceptions. I think the FO needs to look long and hard at our areas of needs and how we project the big 4's future value, then choose one to trade. I'm a huge fan of our young prospects, but our needs are too great for pitching, and we seem to be bottlenecking some players. I fully realize, we could choose the wrong guy to trade and what him have a HOF career, elsewhere, but my biggest worry is we trade one for a pitcher who then gets hurt or seriously declines the second we get him. We need to roll the dice. I get the argument that we are not a small market team and can sign 2-3 really good pitcher, "if Jh just opens his wallet," but I'm not counting on that. Even if he does, we should make a big trade and sign 2-3 pitchers!

I have faith in Slaten as a very good set-up man. I also have a lot of faith in Whitlock in the pen. He has great "stuff," but his health always places an asterisk next to his name. I'd love to see Crawford in the pen, but I know that won't happen. Anyway, a pen is 8 pitchers and we have 2- 3 if you count Hendriks. A lot of our farm arms project better as RP'ers, so maybe we just need short term solutions like Bloom did with Jansen & Martin.

He was being sarcastic.

I could not agree more. Adding pitchers, ideally more than we think we need, allows the decent pitchers we already have to pitch in roles that better suit their skillsets. This should not be some unrealistic dream by a few fans. It needs to be the plan by management.

Great point. I could see the 2025 season unfolding where only 3 guys could be seen as 162 game players: Duran, Devers and Casas, and I only list Casas, because we have no back-up 1Bman who hits better than .760 vs LHPs. Of course, if we call up Anthony, it should only be as a FT player, but probably not 162 games, and with so many OF'ers on the team, we'd need to get them playing time: LHBs: Duran, Abreu and RHBs: Rafaela, Refsnyder and maybe Campbell. I'd say Story should be 162, but I don't want to be laughed at, and with LHB Mayer knocking on the door, I could see Story being "rested" quite a bit. Catcher: we have a poor fielding RHB in Wong and a promising catcher who bats LH'd in Teel. 2B: We have LHBs Mayer & DHam and RHBs Campbell, Grissom & Romy CF: We have LHBs Anthony & Duran (when not in LF) and RHBs Rafaela and maybe Campbell. RF: We have 2 LHBs in Anthony & Abreu, and we can play RHB Ref in short RF's, or play him in LF at Fenway vs LHPs. We might also try Campbell (RHB) in RF, someday. DH: Yoshida looks FT, but with a full OF, one could argue Ref should DH vs LHPs. (LHB E Valdez offers depth at platoon DH, for what that is worth.) If ref retires, maybe Abreu would be the back-up LHB DH with Campbell as the RHB platoon, assuming 2B is full. We have a ton of mix and match options at almost every position, except 1B, unless we count Devers, Mediroth, Wong & Romy as legit depth. 3B is a bit scarce, unless you view Story, Mayer or Campbell as an option. Meidroth, Campbell, Romy and Sogard are possibilities, too, so maybe it's not all that scarce. To me, we need a major plan to improve our pitching, as quickly as possible, while the window of these everyday players remains open. One could claim the window will be widest somewhere around 2026-2027, but I think we can open it wide in 2025, with several strategic and major additions, this winter. Again, this is not a prediction. I seriously doubt JH & Co. see this winter as "THE WINTER" to get bold. IMO, even if they don't see this winter as the one, they can make 2-3 moves that help in 2026 and 2027, while also greatly improving the pitching staff for 2025, along the way. I know it is costly, moneywise and in trade capital, but we need to acquire younger pitchers with 3 or more years of team control. Starters and relievers, and at least 2-3 of them. (I'd prefer 4, but know that will not happen, this winter.) We have a surplus of everyday players: use it. We should have a sizable chunk of change to spend, this winter: use it wisely and only on pitching. This whole Bregman talk is foolish. ACQUIRE PITCHING! Improve the pitcher development system! Pitch who we got where they can be most successful! Stop forcing square pegs into round holes!

You could go back to 2018 and Kimbrell, who somehow manages to get the saves while pitching poorly down the stretch and into the playoffs. (In 2018, some were suggesting Kelly be left off the playoff roster, but the rest is history on that choice.)

This is most certainly a flip and an indication that Cora is open to change and trying something else- for good or bad, I guess. Neither way seemed to help.

Sad for them, but that word "longtime" highlights why we have sucked at pitcher development for abiut 2 decades. "Longterm" = 2 decades.

We are losing Jansen & Martin from a pen that sucked. Yes, we need a rotation, first and foremost, but we need a couple pen arms, too, unless we are moving more than just Whitlock from the opening day rotation to the pen. If we add a lefty pen arm plus Crawford, Whit and Criswell to the pen then okay.

It really is amazing! He's up to .949, now at AAA!

Agreed. This team, as is, cannot win, next year, even if 2-3 of the fab 4 do well. We need to add pitching for any chance.

That's why they hung 'em

I doubt any of Brez's men get the hatchet.

He likely had a lot of help on those choices, but the group has been more active than any of Bloom's years and DD's last year.

Rentals: Paxton, Garcia & Sims Signings: Gio, Criswell, Hendriks, Fulmer, Anderson (Hill, Keller) Extended: Bello Trades: Slaten, Fitts, Priester, Weissert, I Campbell, Sandlin, Horn, Judice Draft/IFA: Tolle, Cason, D Reyes, Neely, Clarke, Aita, Tygart, Futrell & others

He also traded Dugo for a "near ready" SP'er in Fitts (plus RP'er Weissert & far away Pitcher in Judice. He also signed Criswell (and Gio) and traded for Sandlin, who might end up in the pen. The Slaten trade should help the pen for years to come. He has made some moves to try and improve the staff from the MLB club to the rookie leagues. Only time will tell how it works, or not. I will say, he seems to be more proactive on pitching than Bloom was.

I bet it wasn't 2.7% at the ASB.

JH's wallet.

fWAR for Sox Pitchers: SP'ers: 3.7 Houck (16th best in MLB) 1.8 Pivetta (70th) 1.7 Bello (73rd) 1.6 Crawford (83rd) 1.1 Criswell (108th) 0.4 Whitlock (4 GS) and 0.3 Paxton (3 GS) 5 Teams with 5 SP"ers with 90+ IP and a 1.0+ fWAR: Boston, Atlanta, KC, STL and SEA, who has 5 with a 2.0 or better fWAR. RP'ers: 1.4 Jansen (19th) 1.3 Slaten (25th) 0.8 Martin (53rd) 0.4 Weissert (111th) 0.3 Booser (132nd) 0.2 Fitts & Bernardino (162nd) 0.1 Wink

Soxprospects.com projects these farm pitching rotations for the start of 2025: (With Fitts, Preister, Guerrero and Penrod in the big club.) Woo: Dobbins, Gambrell, Drohan, I Coffey, Wikelman, Van Belle Por: Sandlin, Early, Wehunt, Uberstine, Mullins, Monegro Gre: E. Rod, Paez, Tolle, Neely, Dean, Duffy Sal: Valera, Ehrlicher, Judice, Clarke, Tygart, Cason I could see Dandlin, Early and maybe Mullings going to AAA in 2025. Maybe E R-C gets a look at AA. I think Paez will to get that call-up.

An extra year is for the main team and more likely in prime than pre-prime. The way the Sox now let stars walk, I want one more year. Plus, from what I am told, we are talking about 3-4 weeks vs gaining a year on the back end, most likely at ages 27-29.

Yoshi for Cole!