moonslav59

Since when is this the determining factor for the Sox FO? I will also add this: we don't know if any of the 3 or 4 can or would project to outplay who we have already in the first 3-4 weeks of the 2025 season. They very well might, and if the player who starts on the 26 instead of one of these kids sucks in that time frame, then the "missed the playoff by 1-2 games" argument would be front and center, yes. We'd also need to see whoever was in question have a good year once called up. This is a lot of things that need to go as such for this to become an overriding factor over gaining a prime year of a player. Having one more year of Bogey, Betts and others would have been very nice and very fan friendly. I really want us to win in 2025 and do think putting the best players on the 26 as much of the year as possible makes a ton of sense. I totally get your point, but I also want to see us have a better chance 5-6 years from now, too. I know most fans don't think like that, but I'd prefer another year of Anthony, Campbell, Mayer and Teel at an age of 26, 27 or 28 than get 3-4 more weeks of them at age 22-24. Maybe I have more patience than the average fan, and please don't take that as me bragging or thinking I'm better or smarter than anyone else. For one thing, I'm not even sure 3 or 4 of these guys would make the 26 on opening day, even if there was no service time issue involved. I don't think Teel would. Mayer's health might make a difference, next April, so this could just be about Anthony and Campbell. My opinion does not matter, but I'd say Anthony is ready, right now. Campbell looks ready, too, with the bat, but I think he needs time to learn a position, first. That being said, I'd also be happy seeing him as our starting 2Bman in 2026. Although this is not a unique situation in MLB, having 3-4 players that don't even need 40 man protection from Rule 5 (4-5 if you count Meidroth) is a bit of an issue. It means we have to trade away or DFA players with ML experience to add these guys not just to the 40, but to the 26. It's not worth adding them to the 40, until the day we want them on the 26. That causes tough choices to be made before they really need to be made, and we cannot open a slot for them by putting someone on the 60 day IL, until after opening day. Maybe we do that: we add one or two to the 40 on day 2, once we put whatever new pitcher we acquire on the 60 day IL (like we did with Gio & Hendriks in 2024.)

Mayer, Abreu and Priester for Crochet and Banks

He'd be the 12th best player on their 26.

It's doubtful, but I'm not sure I'd say "No way." Maybe we could add Abreu and DHam.

Then, a big fat NO, even if they pay half his contract.

If he agreed to DH only, maybe he'd play more games. We'd need LAA to kick in some serious money for me to be okay with that trade. Even Story + Yoshida would not be enough- moneywise. No way JH takes on that full salary.

They might be one team interested in "far away" prospects," but I think they can and will rightfully demand a top 4 prospect from us. I think I'd rather have 5 years of Bryce Miller than 2 of Crochet, but if he would agree to a reasonable extension, I'd think more about him. He's only 25, so giving him a long extension might work out well. Anything we do involves a big risk. Parting with a big 4 prospect is very risky. Campbell is the only RHB of the 4 and is very athletic. He has not proven he is a plus defender at any position, but he should be able to at 2B, CF or RF- maybe 3B. To me, he is second to... Anthony is the cream of the cream. He seems like the no-brainer "keeper," but he is also the one guy nobody else can top with a better headliner. You get what you pay for, and he should get the best of the best. Mayer plays a position we have had issues with since Bogey bolted, and we haven't had a plus defender at SS since pre-Bogey, unless you count the ever-absent Story. To me, he may be the best choice to trade, despite our higher need for middle infield than CF/RF (Anthony.) Teel looks to be a plus defensive catcher who may also be a good hitter. Those are too hard to find to part with very easily. With Wong's defense seemingly not improving, he may be deemed a "keeper." Keeping all 4 does allow us to trade Abreu and DHam, but what do they bring us back? A package of Arias, Montgomery, Abreu and DHam might be good enough. Who knows?

Again, total agreement. The other big plus about adding SP'ers that can go deep in games to save the pen, is that it would push some of our starters that do fibe for 2-3 innings into the long roles in the pen (over guys like Chase Anderson and Keller.) This allows for a few early yanks in bad games and still "saves" the set up men and closer for only key situations, and hopefully not 2 times every 3 games. To me, this could be a good pen: Closer: Addition Set UP: Slaten, Hendriks and add a Sewald type or LHP Mid-Long Relief: Whitlock, Crawford, Criswell That's 7 out of 8 RP'ers. I think we can find one from the long list to fill the 8 slot, well enough. Instead, we start Whit and Crawford, which hurts the pen in several ways.

Probably. It all depends on Mayer, since nobody else can be an even average defensive SS.

We have to plan for not needing pitching at the deadline, even with 3+ on the 60 day IL. I know that sounds like a pipe dream, but needing 3 pitchers every deadline, when the cost is higher is not a sound plan. I know Brez tried to add more pitchers (Gio, Criswell, Slaten, Weissert, I Campbell, Fitts and few fringy pitchers,) but we knew Gio was out for the year and traded Sale, while also losing Paxton, Schreiber and Kluber.) The net gain in numbers was minimal. (I won't get into the quality aspect.) We knew the injuries was not going to end with Gio, and sure enough, Whitlock went down after 4 starts. Others missed some time, here and there, and we also lost some time from some of our best pen arms, like Martin and Slaten. Ideally, we go into 2025 with Criswell, Fitts and Priester as AAA rotation depth. We go into 2025 with Weissert, I Campbell, Kelly, Booser and maybe others as AAA depth, not our 7th and 8th RP'ers. We go into 2025 without looking to August, which turns into September then never for signees like Hendriks and Paxton from 3 years back. Those are failed plans. If we can't learn from those mistakes, we ain't getting anywhere! I know some dislike the slot ranking idea, but to me it highlights what we need more precisely. Here is what we need to be a top 5-10 pitching staff. 1. Better Defense. (Some metrics show our current staff is near top 10, when the fielding is removed.) 2. This template for winter additions: SP1 _____ SP2 Houck SP3 _____ SP4 Bello SP5 Giolito/Crawford (Criswell, Fitts and Priester in AAA) Closer ____ Set Up Slaten Set Up Hendriks LH RP _____ RP5 Whitlock RP6 Crawford (Fitts/Criswell if Crawford in rotation) RP7 Winckowski RP8 Fulmer (Bernardino, I Campbell, Weissert, Guerrero, kelly, Booser, Penrod & Horn in AAA.)

It seems the farther-away prospects just don't carry the value they once did, but those two might be exceptions. I think the FO needs to look long and hard at our areas of needs and how we project the big 4's future value, then choose one to trade. I'm a huge fan of our young prospects, but our needs are too great for pitching, and we seem to be bottlenecking some players. I fully realize, we could choose the wrong guy to trade and what him have a HOF career, elsewhere, but my biggest worry is we trade one for a pitcher who then gets hurt or seriously declines the second we get him. We need to roll the dice. I get the argument that we are not a small market team and can sign 2-3 really good pitcher, "if Jh just opens his wallet," but I'm not counting on that. Even if he does, we should make a big trade and sign 2-3 pitchers!

I have faith in Slaten as a very good set-up man. I also have a lot of faith in Whitlock in the pen. He has great "stuff," but his health always places an asterisk next to his name. I'd love to see Crawford in the pen, but I know that won't happen. Anyway, a pen is 8 pitchers and we have 2- 3 if you count Hendriks. A lot of our farm arms project better as RP'ers, so maybe we just need short term solutions like Bloom did with Jansen & Martin.

He was being sarcastic.

I could not agree more. Adding pitchers, ideally more than we think we need, allows the decent pitchers we already have to pitch in roles that better suit their skillsets. This should not be some unrealistic dream by a few fans. It needs to be the plan by management.

Great point. I could see the 2025 season unfolding where only 3 guys could be seen as 162 game players: Duran, Devers and Casas, and I only list Casas, because we have no back-up 1Bman who hits better than .760 vs LHPs. Of course, if we call up Anthony, it should only be as a FT player, but probably not 162 games, and with so many OF'ers on the team, we'd need to get them playing time: LHBs: Duran, Abreu and RHBs: Rafaela, Refsnyder and maybe Campbell. I'd say Story should be 162, but I don't want to be laughed at, and with LHB Mayer knocking on the door, I could see Story being "rested" quite a bit. Catcher: we have a poor fielding RHB in Wong and a promising catcher who bats LH'd in Teel. 2B: We have LHBs Mayer & DHam and RHBs Campbell, Grissom & Romy CF: We have LHBs Anthony & Duran (when not in LF) and RHBs Rafaela and maybe Campbell. RF: We have 2 LHBs in Anthony & Abreu, and we can play RHB Ref in short RF's, or play him in LF at Fenway vs LHPs. We might also try Campbell (RHB) in RF, someday. DH: Yoshida looks FT, but with a full OF, one could argue Ref should DH vs LHPs. (LHB E Valdez offers depth at platoon DH, for what that is worth.) If ref retires, maybe Abreu would be the back-up LHB DH with Campbell as the RHB platoon, assuming 2B is full. We have a ton of mix and match options at almost every position, except 1B, unless we count Devers, Mediroth, Wong & Romy as legit depth. 3B is a bit scarce, unless you view Story, Mayer or Campbell as an option. Meidroth, Campbell, Romy and Sogard are possibilities, too, so maybe it's not all that scarce. To me, we need a major plan to improve our pitching, as quickly as possible, while the window of these everyday players remains open. One could claim the window will be widest somewhere around 2026-2027, but I think we can open it wide in 2025, with several strategic and major additions, this winter. Again, this is not a prediction. I seriously doubt JH & Co. see this winter as "THE WINTER" to get bold. IMO, even if they don't see this winter as the one, they can make 2-3 moves that help in 2026 and 2027, while also greatly improving the pitching staff for 2025, along the way. I know it is costly, moneywise and in trade capital, but we need to acquire younger pitchers with 3 or more years of team control. Starters and relievers, and at least 2-3 of them. (I'd prefer 4, but know that will not happen, this winter.) We have a surplus of everyday players: use it. We should have a sizable chunk of change to spend, this winter: use it wisely and only on pitching. This whole Bregman talk is foolish. ACQUIRE PITCHING! Improve the pitcher development system! Pitch who we got where they can be most successful! Stop forcing square pegs into round holes!

You could go back to 2018 and Kimbrell, who somehow manages to get the saves while pitching poorly down the stretch and into the playoffs. (In 2018, some were suggesting Kelly be left off the playoff roster, but the rest is history on that choice.)

This is most certainly a flip and an indication that Cora is open to change and trying something else- for good or bad, I guess. Neither way seemed to help.

Sad for them, but that word "longtime" highlights why we have sucked at pitcher development for abiut 2 decades. "Longterm" = 2 decades.

We are losing Jansen & Martin from a pen that sucked. Yes, we need a rotation, first and foremost, but we need a couple pen arms, too, unless we are moving more than just Whitlock from the opening day rotation to the pen. If we add a lefty pen arm plus Crawford, Whit and Criswell to the pen then okay.

It really is amazing! He's up to .949, now at AAA!

Agreed. This team, as is, cannot win, next year, even if 2-3 of the fab 4 do well. We need to add pitching for any chance.

That's why they hung 'em

I doubt any of Brez's men get the hatchet.

He likely had a lot of help on those choices, but the group has been more active than any of Bloom's years and DD's last year.

Rentals: Paxton, Garcia & Sims Signings: Gio, Criswell, Hendriks, Fulmer, Anderson (Hill, Keller) Extended: Bello Trades: Slaten, Fitts, Priester, Weissert, I Campbell, Sandlin, Horn, Judice Draft/IFA: Tolle, Cason, D Reyes, Neely, Clarke, Aita, Tygart, Futrell & others