moonslav59

If Clay cant pitch a full year, which he hasnt in a while, then his final option should NOT be picked up. Last year I had zero issue with the option being picked up. Im sure they can fill the 5 spot for less than 13m and with better production. The guy is a friggin head case on the mound. Im guessing he overthinks everything...Id love to see him pitch whatever the catcher calls instead of wanting to call his own game.

I'm not sure if it's a "head issue", but clearly something is wrong. He's supposedly healthy this year, and JF said the other day, that he looks like he has the same stuff as ever, but he's just not placing the ball where it belongs.

But isn't a half season a small sample by your standards?

Yes, and that's why I was sure to mention they were "half seasons".

Look, all I did was try to correct the position that Buch has bad full seasons and "good half seasons". It's really more like ...

Buch has almost all bad full seasons or almost all fantastic half seasons.

Yes, he's erratic as hell, and that makes it hard to plan out a rotation. Years ago (after his good full season), I caught a lot of flack for saying we should count on Buch as our 5th starter- not our 2 or 3. Now, I don't even want him as our 5th starter anymore.

It doesn't gloss over anything. No matter how good, a half-season is a half-season.

They were more than "good" half seasons, so there was some gloss.

I'm not denying the were just half seasons, and I stated they were half seasons.

Also, Buch did have one good full season, but that was so long ago, I can understand not counting it.

Imagine a blockbuster deal with Fernandez and Stanton?

Sorry, I enjoy dreaming. Its got me to where I am today.

True, but imagine us without Betts, Bogey and more...

Stanton is a beast. I still wish we had found away.....

Me 2

It's "Marrero" with an "A".

This from MLBTR...

The Red Sox have already patched up their bullpen by trading for Brad Ziegler, and they’re almost certain to acquire a starting pitcher before the non-waiver trade deadline on August 1 to shore up their shaky rotation. Their offense, meanwhile, is already the best in baseball and they could be even better once the Andrew Benintendi era begins.

I’m not certain that the 22-year-old Benintendi will be the first first-rounder (No. 7 overall) from the 2015 Draft to get the call to the big leagues—see Alex Bregman—but he shouldn’t be far behind. Coincidentally, Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski recently hinted that Benintendi is close and might not need a stop in Triple-A.

Since a promotion to Double-A in mid-May, the left-handed-hitting center fielder has an .844 OPS in 47 games, including a .310 batting average since a 2-for-19 start. He’ll man left field once he arrives in Boston with Brock Holt moving back into his valuable role as a super-utility man.

His pattern has been good half seasons and lousy almost full seasons with an occasional lousy half season. When he was healthy, he could dominate, but I think those days are over. The stuff doesn't seem to be there anymore.

I think saying "good half seasons" glosses over the fact that he had 3 of the best half seasons in the last 45 years, including 2 of the best ERA- half seasons of all time.

I agree with your point of view here. To date, we have heard not even a whisper about moving Benintendi. All fan conjecture. I don't think that these two prospects need to be treated the same necessarily but I do think that sooner as opposed to later they do have to start thinking about what they will do with Moncada going forward. Easy for Benintendi- no thought required. Moncada is a different story but he may be on a different level than Benintendi. When you see them in Portland, I will be interested to hear about your first impressions. I have already expressed mine and they are pretty clear.

I'm bumming out. I can't go to the game Thursday night, and we're heading to Destin, FLA Friday morning.

I just can't see Koji going through Orioles or Blue Jays anymore....I hope we move away from him and Tazawa when season comes an end. Sometimes you have to know when to move on.....

I tend to agree. Both might be costly, and I think it's time for some fresh arms/looks.

Last I heard, Owens walked 4 in one inning, including 2 with bases loaded.

No thanks.

I think it's Buch.

Porcello at least throws strikes......I hate Dice K approach....which Clay B has copied....

True enough, and while I'm not as big on Ks as others, it's nice to see Porcello's BB/9 continue going down. Here's his career track by season:

2.74

2.10

2.27

2.25

2.14

1.80

1.99

1.67

His K/9 rate with Boston has been about 2 more than his career up to 2015 (7.80 & 7.73)

K/BB shows the dramatic improvement:

1.71

2.21

2.26

2.43

3.38

3.15

3.92

4.62

Barnes has been very good, with a few notable exceptions. He is a good strikeout pitcher, and I would personally prefer that he be given a shot at closing games over Uehara. Ziegler could be the primary closer, then Barnes.

I think if Uehara struggles, we'll see Ziegler before Barnes, but your choice might be better. I think Hembree might also have an outside shot.

Like you mentioned last season Moon, his extension didn't kick-in until this year. Last season wasn't pretty that's for sure, but they were an extremely flawed team in most aspects and weren't going anywhere, regardless how well or poorly Porcello did. I'm ecstatic that he's made the adjustments needed and let's not forget he's still in his prime. The extension doesn't look so bad now and it's one that I was on the fence about. I liked it in theory. Hope the results keep coming.

And, the theory was to lock up a good pitcher for only years within his prime, and that's what the Porcello extension was all about.

Had we not extended him, he might be somewhere else right now, and maybe we'd have signed another big pitcher that's on the DL right now. (Maybe we'd have signed Cueto or Zimm.)

Ok - all is well - I guess that my primary point is that I think that Moncada is the bigger prize here. My opinion I'll admit. I think that outside of playing a position that makes sense to the franchise, he is our top prospect going forward. I get the fact that you fill a space based upon need, I just don't ultimately see the sense in Moncada being used as a second baseman. It sounds as though many posters expect Benintendi to be a part of our outfield at least by 2017. if that is the case, it would just amaze me if a potential star like Moncada was playing in the minors so that he could learn a position that he will not be playing for some time in Boston. I'm suggesting that if Benintendi gets moved early (which I don't want to see happen), it would make more sense to trade Moncada as opposed to letting him hang around in our minor league system until there is a place to use him. If Moncada gets traded, we will all be very sad.

I caught a lot of flack for suggesting we start giving Moncada some reps at 3B or LF sooner rather than later. It's my opinion he's close, if not already, ML ready on offense. I get the argument about not wanting to overload a developing player's plate. However, Moncada's just about as blocked as blocked can be. One problem might be that we probably have to pick just one new position for him to learn- not two. Left field is our high need area right now, but Benintendi seems ear-marked for that slot. Once Papi retires, our highest need might be 3B/1B/DH not LF. Maybe the idea is to start Moncada at DH next year and let him learn a position or two over time (in practice first), but I have to think it's probably better to get some games under his belt at 3B and/or LF.

I know this is probably going to be another "can of worms" situation here, but we're getting later into the season, and if we are going to get him plenty of experience at his future position, he'll have to start getting some reps in practice pretty soon tao be ready by September or April 2017.

LOL It's what we do here.

 

Because the first 100 times we argued a point were not enough.

Like the GIECO commercial. If your a moonslav, it's what you do.

LOL

According to fangraph's value page, Porcello has already earned over $15M this season. That places him at #32 behind Price at #19 ($17.9M) and Wright at #26 ($$16.3M).

I'll check later, but I'm not sure many other teams have 3 SP'ers in the top 32.

How about ERA-?

3) Wright 59

30) Porcello 81

58) Price 103

WHIP:

27) Porcello 1.17

36) Wright 1.21

41) Price 1.23

xFIP-

6) Price 75

34) Porcello 94

66) Wright 103

Out of 99 qualifying pitchers.

How about some love for Porcello?

The guy is having his best career year.

Best ERA-

Best xFIP-

Best winning percent.

So many posters were so down on this guy.

Kinda reminded me of Lackey.

He has looked good. We need for Kelly to come in and do a decent job. I'm not sold on Tazawa and Koji needs more rest in between appearances. Ziegler may end up being the closer. We're two games up on Houston for the wildcard. Not time to panic.

Last winter, I suggested making Kelly or Buch the closer, and I guess we'll never know how that might have worked out, but at this point, I'm not expecting much from Kelly in any role.

I don't think a player needs time at AAA to be "ready" for MLB. I don't want to rush Benintendi, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that rushing a player can mess them up for over a year either.

I trust Sox management to know when he's ready.

The good thing is, his glove seems ready already.

What is the situation on Holt? He may have sprained his ankle sliding into second. if he is out again for a protracted period it could be that would impact the decision on Benentendi.

What's the status on Young?

With Kimbrel going out for 6 weeks it is fortuitous and perhaps lucky that DD traded for Brad Ziegler. Without him, our bullpen would have been hopelessly thin. The cost for the trade does not seem inordinate. Assuming Kimbrel gets back in September he should be well rested and hopefully able to return to his closer role. There are still bullpen moves that we could make, but it looks like any starting pitching move would cost a lot in prospects and dollars. Maybe someone within the organization can blossom into a 4th or 5th starter. We still have hope with ERod. Why can't the Red Sox develop pitching from the minors?

Not disagreeing, but Barnes is looking very good.

Well I don't get too caught up in Milb stats with young players. They need to produce eventually but a lot more scouting and projection go into how guys are valued the lower you go. I think Alexander is kind of looked at the same without his value being impacted that much but Alejandro has really increased his value.

 

The Sox prospects were poised to move him up into the 9-11 range assuming Groomed signed which means without Groome he'd be 8-10. So we can deduce that at least one source had the Basabes switch which one was the good one. But perhaps they are just selling high on him too, or he could be emerging.

soxprospects.com already put out their summer rankings and jumped Luis Alejandro up from 34 to 18.

For the poster that thinks Shaw should not be platooned.....your words were "....no f...ing way".

 

He went 0-3 today. He's now 15/74, .203. I like Shaw but don't you have to play the percentages, no? It's not like he's a Gold glove defender. Luckily, there are more right handed pitchers so he will get his at bats.

 

And the fact that DD specifically mentioned his struggles against left handers should count for something. We gave up a decent AAA pitcher to help solve that problem. That says it all.

Well said. I'm sure I'm going to catch some grief for saying this, and I'm not saying he won't ever be good at this, but I'm still not convinced Shaw can continue to hit RHPs well enough to play 3B or 1B over the rest of his career. I'm not saying I think or project him to fail, even as a platoon player, but just that I'm much more demanding on sample size before becoming a true believer.

I'm more inclined to have the core group for the future altogether sooner rather than later....I'd like to see Benintendi and Moncada for 2017 season to go with the killer B's.

-Nick

I really want us to do everything to avoid trading Moncada and Benintendi. I also really like Espinoza, but with him being so far away from the bigs, and our poor record developing top starting pitchers, I'd be okay moving him for the right pitcher.

I'm also extremely high on Swihart as well, but we are going to have to give up something very good to get something very good. I've racked my brain trying to find the right team to match up in trade, but so far have not found a solid young starter under team control for 3.3+ more years on a team looking for the package I'd prefer to give up- something like Swihart, Devers, Travis, Kopech and Owens or Johnson. Let's assume we can do that. Here's how I see next year's roster shaping up:

SP1) Price

SP2) PLAYER from trade

SP3) Porcello

SP4) Wright

SP5) ERod/ FA pitcher

SP6) ERod/Kelly/Elias/O'Sullivan/Owens or Johnson

Closer) Kimbrel

RP2) C Smith

RP3) FA or trade

RP4) FA or trade

RP5) Hembree

RP6) Barnes

RP7) Ross/Layne/Workman/Ramirez/Light/Martin/ or others

C) Vazquez/Hanigan/Leon

1B) Ramirez (Shaw)

2B) Pedroia/Holt (Moncada)

3B) Shaw/Sandoval/Rutledge (Moncada)

SS) Bogaerts/Hernandez/Marrero

LF) Benintendi/Young (Moncada)

CF) Bradley (Betts)

RF) Betts (Young)

DH) Moncada (Sandoval/Ramirez)

I know missing Papi will be a huge loss, but this non-pitching roster looks very nice to me.