moonslav59

Agreed, but that wasn't the point I was addressing.

Great reads. Thanks!

It's not just about replacing a pitcher as good as Price for $30M, assuming he is strong this and next year combined. It's about what is expected from Price on the downside of his career. He's going to turn 34 during his 4th year of his contract and 37 during his 7th year of the deal. I would think we can probably replace his projected production from ages 33-37 with a $30M offer to a guy in his late 20's or early 30's.

I expected the Sox to be hurt by the loss of Papi's retirement, but I still expected a top 5 offense, or even top 3. I'm looking at some of the teams with more runs scored than us, so far, and I do not think I am alone in thinking there is no way anyone expected the rays to have a better offense than the Papi-less Sox. The Rays have scored 15 more runs than us. Before the season started, who liked these players on offense? C Derek Norris (.637) 1B Logam Morrison (.916) More shockingly good than Moreland! 2B Brad Miller (.645) 3B Longoria (.752) The one guy we thought might be great! SS Tim Beckham (.757) LF Colby Rasmus (.896) Better than any Sox OPS CF K Kiermaier (.737) RF Steven Souza (.853) WTF? DH C Dickerson (.938) Better numbers than with COL. Leads AL in hits Top 6 bench guys by PAs have OPS between .662 and .768. Other surprising teams scoring more runs than the Sox: CIN and NYM-- nobody here thought these two teams had a better offense than us, even without Papi. We all knew Cincy had Votto. His 1.046 OPS is a big part of heir surprisingly good offense this year, but here's the rest: .966 Zack Cozart .915 Scooter Gennett .904 Adam Duvall (we don't have anyone over .855 and Cincy has 4 guys over .900! .875 Scott Schebler .828 Devin Mesoraco .813 Eugenio Suarez I'm not in any fantasy baseball leagues, but am I the only guy that hasn't even heard of some of these guys?

Question - once again - why would anyone give up anyone for a rental third baseman for a team that is currently leading their division? Ask why we traded for Aaron Hill last year, when we had a better 3B situation than we have now.

I've never been against trading prospects. There's no hypocrisy. I'm usually for making a bigger package deal for a better player than trades like Espi for Pom. (I loved the Sale trade and have often suggested those sorts of trades.) Now, that doesn't mean I want us to trade our whole farm away either. I'm more in Kimmi's camp when it comes to not wanting to empty the farm, but I'm talking more about saving more top prospects. I like the Ziegler trade last year, and that was a rental. I'm okay with trading a mid level prospect for a rental, if I think it significantly improves the team. I like to balance the short and long views, but now that we seem to have just about broken the farm for a 3 year window, I don't think it is hypocritical to think it might be a good idea (key word: might) to trade someone like Ockimey or Lakins for a 3B rental. Our 3Bmen suck badly. It is such a weak link that I do not buy the philosophy that we are winning now with Lin/Marrero, so there is no need to make changes. When we reach the playoffs, every little edge can be a difference maker. I want to keep Devers, Groome and Travis. I would not trade any of them for any rental. I think between Devers, Travis, Longhi, Chavis and Dalbec, we should be fine at 3B, 1B and DH into the extended future without really needing Ockimey's chances at being a force.

He can't hit and never will. The 15 PA sample size is a fluke.

I agree on not panicking. I do think we need to make a minor trade or two, like we did with Ziegler last year.

The Yankees lose! Thaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh Yankeeeeeeeezeeeee LOSE!

True enough. Also, if Price has two great years, it might not be so bad keeping him either, despite his age and contract cost years 4 to 7.

I said I was fine with the Price signing. I do not want to go back to last place finishes, although we wouldn't have come close to last without Price last year. I was talking about hoping Price opts out after 3 years. That is not the same as saying I wish we never signed him. It's way different.

I thought we should have traded Swihart after his first ML season. His stock is not as high as it was then, and I'm not sure we'd get what he is worth by trading him now of this winter. I'd keep Swihart. Yes, I do think Swihart could be our 4th OF'er, 3rd catcher and maybe even back up corner IF'er some day. Maybe that is where his best value could be. If Holt retires, that idea makes even more sense. I think we are best suited trading an Ockimey and or Lakins type(s) for a decent 3B rental. I think we stand pat with the pen in hopes that Ross or Smith give us a boost when needed. We also have Workman, Taylor, Maddox and maybe even Brian Johnson to fill out the pen, if we need help. The starting pitching situation should be clearer by the deadline. Hopefully, ERod will have had 3-4 starts by then, and maybe B Johnson might look like a healthy depth option by then. To me, I'd address the 3B need at the deadline and maybe look for a waiver wire deal in August, if another serious need arises.

I'd take him out now, after 7 IP and 116 pitches.

Yes.

Fair enough. He won't opt out unless he thinks he can get close to the same money (highly doubtful), but if he thinks he can (highly doubtful) this whole mess with the media might tip the scales.

Not many winning teams have such a weak link as we do at 3B. The Sox have a long history of addressing glaring weaknesses during seasons where they think they have a good chance at winning it all. Last year, we traded for Ziegler. We even traded for Aaron Hill, when we had a much better situation at 3B with Shaw. I am 90% sure the plan is to at least trade for a decent 3Bman like Lowrie or call up Devers and giving him a significant role at 3B. I do not think Sox management is prepared to risk it all on putrid 3B production. (I'm fine without trading away anymore prospects. I'd also be fine, if we trade away a mid level prospect or two to go for it all this year. I'm not for trading Devers, Groome and Travis. We will need these low cost-hopefully high performing players to fill out our future roster and allow us to keep oiur fine young stars and Chris Sale.

I'm not saying $31M a year will alone be enough extend Sale, Betts and sign a top level FA starter, but keeping Price and his contract will probably not allow us to keep all our top young players and replace Porcello with a top starter. With the Price and Porcello money freed up, I think we can keep everyone and have enough to find a top starter. We'd be over the luxury limit but probably not by the $20M added penalty level that keeping Price and replacing Porcello would almost certainly entail doing.

True. It could be gone in a game or two. Bad choice of words.

It would be fantastic for him to opt out as he reaches the end of his prime years. Not only would we not have to witness his post-prime years, we'd have his $30+M to use on re-signing Sale & Betts and getting another top level FA starter.

Sox OPS leaders: .860 JBJ - taking a commanding lead .840 Betts- needs to get hot .826 Bogey- hanging tough .818 Moreland- might need some more rest (.808 Travis in 33 PAs) .782 Beni- I'd like to see him get over .800 .768 HRam- needs to get over .800 .746 Pedroia .734 Young .700 Vaz .695 Leon .622 Pablo .558 Rutledge .552 Marrero (What a putrid trio of 3Bmen offensively)

We've made it to the top half in runs scored: 449 HOU 447 WSH 445 NYY 428 LAD 422 AZ 416 COL 398 SEA 397 TEX 395 TBR 394 MIL 385 CIN 385 NYM 377 BOS We're 22 runs from 7th place. We're 5th in OBP at .338 (just .010 from 1st) We are 19th in SLG (.417), which is .007 from the top half of the leaague despite ranking 26th in HRs with just 80. We'd need 18 more HRs to be 15th in MLB.

As long as caring about what the media or fans think doesn't interfere with his pitching, I could care less. Maybe the media poison will cause Price to opt out. There's always hope.

soxprospects.com has updated their rankings with recent draft picks inserted: http://soxprospects.com/ Big moves or insertions: 4 Chavis (from 11) 5 Tanner Houck 6 Mata (from 16) 7 Ockimey (from 10) 8 Chatham 9 Dalbec (from 5) 10 Beeks (from 29) 11 Lakins 12 Johnson 13 Longhi (from 9) 14 Cole Brannen 15 Alex Scerff 16 S. Anderson 17 M Shawaryn 18 D Hernandez 19 J Callahan (from 33) 20 R Raudes (from 8) 21 B Taylor 22 T Buttrey (NR) other big movers: 40>24 A Maddox NR>26 Velazquez NR>31 T-W Lin 44>32 D Mars 47>33 J Tobias 17>34 T Ball 45>35 R Baldwin 29>37 T maheny 18>40 L Ysla (DFA candidate) 15>41 J Cosart 30> 51 K Washington

I thought we'd trade for Frazier last winter, but he's a seriously flawed 2nd half hitter off to a llesser start than previous years. I don't like how he projects ending this season. I would not give up our best power hitting prospect for 2 month rental like Frazier. I might trade Ockimey, since I like Travis & Longhi better, and decent 1Bmen are easy to find, or Lakins for Frazier or Lowrie.

He's a two month (+ playoffs) rental. If an extension is part of a trade, I'll listen, but I still think the overpay need to get Mouse (extended or not) would not be worth the cost. I think we go light (Lowrie--maybe Frazier) or take a chance on Devers in September.