moonslav59

We won in 2004, 2007 and 2013 without "damning the future". Trading away Devers, Travis or Groome or 2 or 3 of them won't guarantee a win anyways. We could trade for Machado and Verlander and still lose now and for the next 5 years plus. I think we just need to upgrade 3B to average, and maybe we get a 5th starter type, if ERod looks sketchy or Porcello doesn't show signs of improvement by the deadline. We already greatly mortgaged much of our future for this 3 to 4 year window while keeping some sort of hope for the 4th year and beyond. I don't see the need to throw everything we have for a one year greater shot.

I suffered through 32 of those years. I often wondered why we never "threw the sink" when we were closest to winning it all. I was pissed that Sox management seemed to just care about keeping us competitive enough to keep interest high and profits higher. I remember telling fellow Sox fans that i'd gladly take 10 last place finishes for just one ring. I meant it down to my very soul. Once we won the ring in 2004, that feeling left me fully. I got greedy and wanted more. I also realized that with this new ownership and management team, we didn't have to wait ten years to throw a new sink. We could stay highly competitive year after year and maybe win a few more rings. The 2007 championship with a different ace showed continuous winning was possible under strong management and ownership. Going from 2007 to 2013 was a bit painful but not anywhere near how it was from the early 70's, when I became a Sox fan, to 2004. Three last place finishes from 2012 to 2015 with a ring in 2013 was eerily like my childhood wishes, but that ring sure felt great, especially in light of what happened in Boston that spring of 2013. We also built a hell of a farm system during those four years. That helped outweigh the 3 piss-poor seasons surrounding the ring year. Throw the sink every time we feel very close to a ring? Tough decision. I love winning rings, but I love staying highly competitive every year or building the farm towards a long term winning future. It's not always possible to do both. I do think we went out of balance to go for it all in a 3-4 year window period, but at least we didn't throw the sink for just one season. Once we have gone "unbalanced", I'm for doing what is necessary to improve our chances this year- not by trading a top 3 prospect, but by making a minor deal or two at 3B and maybe SPing without totally depleting our farm system. Maybe it's not really throwing a sink this summer, but surely a sink or two were thrown last winter.

If Pom continues to do well, being able to extend him and Sale could greatly lessen the impact of losing Price and Porcello. If Porcello keeps struggling, replacing him with an upgrade at $21M should be easy to do. If Groome can contribute soon after we lose Price and/or Porcello, we may be able to use all the saved money to extend and re-sign everyone we want and maybe sign a significant SP'er at $15-20M. 1) Sale extended 2) $20M starter 3) ERod 4) Pomeranz extended 5) Wright/Groome Keep Betts, JBJ and Bogey Hope Devers, Travis and others can contribute at minimal pay which will allow us to pay big at other positions. Paying Price $31M from ages 34-37, even if he does well in those years and technically is "worth it" during years 4-7, we will likely be better off if he bolts.

Maybe. Maybe not. Sometimes they keep a young prospect where he is most comfortable, even if they are near certain he will be moved off the SS position eventually. Plus, the SS position is where a player holds the most value, if he can defend well enough, so keeping him at SS may keep the value highest, either within the Sox system or as trade bait for a later time.

Not really. The open FA market for big payday players is and has never been a good value guide. Just because another team overpays for Price after a great 2018 season (maybe $31M x 5 or 6 years or $33M x 4 or 5 years) does not mean we lose for watching him leave. We can do a lot with $31M... maybe better than what price projects to give after age 34. Maybe not, but never say never.

I'm not bashing Price. i was okay with the signing. I hope he does great to finish out his 3 or 7 year deal- either way. I thought he was the best SP'er to come on the FA market (next to MAYBE Scherzer) in many years. I don't blame DD at all for signing price. We needed an ace after losing Lester. I don't want to pay any pitcher $31M a year from ages 34 to 37, even if the guy just won a Cy Young's in 2018, which I think Price could possibly do. He's that good (at age 32-33). It's not bashing Price to want him to opt out, so we can free up some salary space to keep our better and younger talent and maybe find one good (younger) SP'er to replace Price and Porcello. We probably will need Groome to replace the other, so we can keep Sale and others.

For the Yanks- Yes. For the Sox- No.

The 2013 ring turned the cliff into a mole hill.

I've always felt your best overall hitter (SLG, OBP, BA) should bat 3rd. I'm not doubting Kimmi's research on the matter, so I'm fine with Betts up 4th. My own choice would be... vs RHPs: 1) Pedey (better than 2nd to limit his GIDPs) 2) Bogey 3) Betts 4) JBJ 5) HRam 6) Moreland 7) Beni 8) Leon 9) Marrero vs LHPs 1) Pedey 2) Bogey 3) Betts 4) HRam (1B or DH) 5) JBJ 6) Young (DH or LF) 7) Travis (1B), Moreland (1B) or Beni (LF) 8) Vaz 9) Marrero or Lin Like I said though, I'm fine with Betts 4th and JBJ 5th. I'm not feeling strongly about Bogey/Pedey being 1-2 or 2-1. HRam might do well up 3rd. Maybe Young could bat 3rd vs LHPs.

The more I bash his offensive skills, the better he does, so here I go: Marrero sucks on offense! Go Devon!! GO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Our 5th best hitter right now is maybe HRam, Pedey or Moreland. Betts 4th. Bogey 1st. JBJ 5th. Going by your data on line-ups.

Teams should always be looking for ways to improve, in fact our current winning stretch has included many line-up adjustments and substitutions. One could actually argue that to continue as we have been doing, we should continue tinkering with the line-up. For example, we moved JBJ up recently and have scored even more runs since the move. We've began resting Moreland more with Travis on board, and we're still winning. We play Young or don't play him- win and win. We've moved Beni all over the line-up- win-win. Pedey gets hurt, Bogey sits- win-win. I love the "prosperity" that has come with tinkering.

Updated numbers after today's blowout: Sox leaders in OBP: .382 Pedey .370 JBJ .366 Bogey .364 Betts .353 HRam .351 Beni .350 Moreland .343 Young .314 Vaz .300 Leon .254 Marrero SLG % .506 Betts .491 JBJ .463 Moreland .455 Bogey .449 HRam .431 Beni .403 Leon .397 Young .378 Pedey .376 Vaz .347 Marrero Just looking at the numbers, and going along with Kimmi's batting order analysis, it seems like Betts and should bat 4 or 5. I'm fine with Betts 4 and JBJ 5. Maybe put HRam 3rd. 1) Bogey 2) Pedey 3) HRam or Moreland 4) Betts 5) JBJ 6) Moreland (Tavis) or HRam (Young) 7) Beni (Young) 8) Vaz/Leon 9) Marrero/Lin

Line-up formation has been an age old talking point for fans. True, it's value is overblown, but the debates are interesting. The 5 slot is also very important, and to me the bigger issue is why isn't JBJ batting 4th or 5th and not why Betts isn't 4th (or 3rd)?

The best athletes are often SSs in HS or college, but that doesn't mean they are SSs in the bigs. Guys like Yaz were SSs before joining professional ball. Also, if we end up with a glut of SSs, it's easy to trade one away.

I don't want us to be bad for 2-4 years after winning 1-2 championships, but those rings sure make it easier to stomach. Just like the 2013 ring made 2012, 2014 and 2015 tolerable.

Great news to us cliff dwellers.

Betts has shown he's a second half hitter. The second half has begun. Move him down to 3 or 4. Move JBJ to 4 or 5. I'm not going to go nutty, if they don't do it, but in my opinion, they should do it ASAP.

Betts hit 35 HRs last year. He's on pace for 26 this year, not even factoring in his second half history. He may not look like a traditional slugger, but he's the best slugger we have (along with JBJ). I agree that Farrell may never make a change.

So, it's still impossible for Price opting out to ever benefit us? Even if Price does well after leaving us, we could still benefit by him leaving, and it's not some minor percentage of a chance. Look, I agree the chances are very slim he opts out. Very very slim, and I get the point that if he does opt out, it must mean he has probably done great for us and the market price for starters have risen considerably, but FA market prices for top FAs is not an accurate gauge of true value. History has shown that the majority of big FA signings have turned out badly for the teams signing them. You'd think that would adjust the market prices, but it hasn't. They keep going up. teams continue to pay for past performance in the hopes that they will get some of that past value into the future. It rarely happens. That's the reason I'd love to see Price bolt, even if he has been pitching like superman at age 32-33 with us.

2015-2017 combined 3B WAR: 1) 21.1 Cubs 5) 13.4 Cards 10) 10.8 SEA 15) 7.8 MIL 20) 5.8 MIA 25) 2.9 DET 30) -2.8 BOS (29th place is +2.2 ATL. We are 5.0 away from the second worst team at 3B over the last 2.5 years! That is astounding! No other team is 5 points ahead or behind the next ranked team.)

Over the last 10 years of team 3B WAR, there are 300 samples. How do recent Sox teams rank in this 300 sample size study? 299th the 2015 Red Sox 286th the 2017 Red Sox (On pace to place 298th) This is totally unacceptable for a team looking to win a championship. Two of the worst 3 seasons by a position in a 10 year period! If you count the second half of 2016 we've had a horrific 5 out of 6 half seasons at 3B. standing pat is risking a good chance at winning a ring.

I hope I will eat crow as our farm becomes a top level farm again.

I don't value Lin or Marrero highly at all.

Agreed. Marrero and Lin seem to be better options than Pablo-Rutledge, but the fact is we are still an overall negative at 3B. Can we still win with a negative at a position? Yes, we have already shown we can, but all contending teams are looking to improve as they head towards the playoffs. If we are unwilling to give Devers a chance this year, and I have no issues with Sox management's decisions on Devers, I feel the easiest way to improve our playoff chances is to turn a weakness into an average position. We should not stand pat, but I'm not for trading a top prospect for a rental either. We should be able to get someone better than Aaron Hill without significantly affecting our future.