moonslav59

Are you saying you are not stating your opinions as irrefutable facts? I guess we all come across like that, at times, maybe without meaning to. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

They needed to reset, IMO. Maybe the choice was reset, now or after 2020, and if that was the case, it seems now was the better choice, again, IMO. (Improve for 3+ years vs just one year-2020- not that 2020 would be an improvement over 2019 on paper- it clearly would not be unless we spent over the $40M line again.) They likely searched for ways to reset without trading Betts, and either there was no way or the choices were so horrible, trading Betts became the only viable option. If season ticket holders really felt like there was no way Betts was being traded based on a few statements that were contrary to other statements, and you want to call it a "defrauding," I won't argue with that point. I, for one, knew all along a reset was highly probable and that trading Price alone was not going to get us there. Trading Price and not giving JBJ a contract might have, but we'd have not a penny to spend on 2020 and still reset. No Perex, no Peraza and no Pillar. You think we'd win inn 2020 with Betts and no other holes filled? Sure, we'd have a better chance than now, but it's not idiotic to do what Bloom did. He greatly improved the outlook for 2021, 2022 and beyond- both financially and physically. Even if every player we got back for Betts flops, the $16M we saved on Price should make us better in 2021 & 2022. I know the odds are very long we bring back Betts, but they are better now than had we kept him and not reset. If we miss out on Betts this coming winter, my hope is we spend well and get back to the top much sooner than had we waited. It's a valid position to hold, but no position can be proven as right as of now.

That's far, far, far from all you have stated as fact.

No clue? He was given a vastly over budget roster by DD- someone several people are going out of their way to defend. It was a mandate to reset, IMO. If some want to believe it was just a priority, fine. Bloom's hands were tied by budget constraints and the unknown of being able to trade Betts and dump Price's deal. Had that deal been done in December, maybe we'd see a different roster, now, but it's hard to blame Bloom for where we are, right now. Should he have rushed a Betts-Price deal? I know some wish we never made the deal, but I can't see any better way to reset the tax.

Getting out from under half of Price's remaining 3 years of his contract was a very important aspect of the trade. It should greatly affect our team for 3 years and maybe more. Bloom is known to work wonders with a winter spending budget of $16M or less, and a lot will depend on what he does with those savings, when we measure how well this deal works out. It's not really part of the deal, but ultimately, it works out that way. When we dumped Crawford, and to some extent Beckett, by including AGon in the mega deal with the Dodgers, the effect was we were able to sign Vic, Napoli & Dempster. We won a ring, largely based on those signings, but had we not, we'd likely be viewing that trade differently by now. Waiting for the deadline to try and trade Betts and Price could certainly have worked out better, but it would have been a wild gamble. I seriously doubt we'd be able to reset the tax, something some here still don't this was a high need thing to do. It obviously was a mandate not a priority all along. If Price got hurt or struggle to start 2020, we'd be screwed. For all we know, we might have been forced to trade Bogey & Betts to reset at the deadline (saving us just $16M on the tax line). The other part of the trade was the return. I'm fine with haggling over what we got and damaged goods and all, but it's not like we had multiple good or better offers on the table. The Padre offer looked like a joke. As great as Betts is and will be, we traded one year of control- ONE YEAR! We have set ourselves up to resign him after 2020- something we never would be able to do had we not reset. If we end up missing out on Betts, we'll still be set up to make a substantial rebuild through signings and trades that we could and would not have been able to do without resetting. We got... 5 years of Verdugo (2 pre arb years): Even if he misses a year with a bad back, we still can get a lot of value from this guy. He's not a bust, IMO. All this crap about his character is conjecture, at this point. He may disappoint, but I feel, at worst, he gives us 2-3 WAR for 4-5 years: at best he gives us 4-6 WAR. 5 years of Downs: This guy could turn into a major gain. I realize it's speculation, but he's our #1 or 2 prospect according to every ranking service. 5 years of Wong: This guy has a lot of potential on offense but lacks a clear position. At worst, he may replace JD at DH someday while being a 3rd string catcher/utility depth option. I seriously doubt we could have got a better package than this one. To say waiting would have been better is pure speculation. Sure, maybe we could have, but the money part of the equation looks very sketchy by July. We NEEDED to RESET! I know that's just an opinion, but I sincerely think it was vital. I also think Henry and Bloom felt the same way. Our extended future is much better off now, than before the trade. Our chances in 2020 took a big hit. I'm not denying that, and for those who felt we had a very good chance to win in 2020, I understand your frustration or anger, but let's give this deal some time. It's not the type of deal anyone can definitively judge 2 weeks after being made. If Price bounces back and Verdugo flops, it may look bad. If Price sucks for 3 years, Verdugo and others do well, and we use the money saved to choose wisely, we may view this deal like the last Dodger dump trade- a huge success.

The difference: I admit it's an opinion- my opinion (at the time). You act like everything you believe is fact.

True. I'm projecting us as being sellers at the deadline, but it's not a sure thing. We still have a formidable offense and some pitchers who can bounce back. Acquiring players that could possibly be traded at the deadline is certainly a good part of the plan, but the plan is to try to get us to be competitive, this year, without messing up 2021 and beyond.

Massive assumptions.

1) Nobody is "convinced" of anything, but Verdugo has many years of team control. Judge, now, if you must. 2) Is wasn't like Price ever had a time when he was tradable without paying a major part of his deal. It's my opinion we got the Dodger to may more than their fair share of his contract n this deal. 3) It's fine to have the opinion this was messed up, but it's just that: opinion. You are making a lot of assumptions.

Maine is the best state in the union... for 4-5 months a year!

Big assumption we could get a top pitcher at the deadline. Plus, at the deadline, we only save $9M on Betts and are still stuck with Price and no reset. Let's give this trade some time.

He doesn't need to lose any more weight.

Not true. They have as much or more services than most states based on need. They make all their revenue on that one toll booth between Maine and Mass plus property taxes. They have the smallest state government per capita. (Yes, they spend less on public welfare, but they have way less people in need, maybe because of more wealth.) file:///home/chronos/u-c81ce0f153e57a9c97563b5954ed0b92e0c68e72/MyFiles/Downloads/neppcrr1101-nhbriefing%20(1).pdf

and income tax!

If we trade JBJ (-$11M) and add a SP'er (say +$17.4M), we'll have $10M to spend, if needed, at the AS break. That is enought to get two very good, but over-priced pitchers, hopefully without giving up much.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

I'd keep Jimenez. I'd try to use a lefty as an opener, since our pen would then come in almost all as righties.

Guys, I don't like to bring my personal life into this site, but I just got some devastating news. My best and dearest friend from Maine died yesterday. He was hit by a train while walking on the tracks with earbuds on. I'm crushed. I may not be here for a while. I'd be grateful to all who could say a prayer for his long time girlfriend and siblings. He was 62. Biggest heart you could ever imagine.

Of course not, and my point isn't about not signing several SP'er to minor league deals. I think we should sign more than we have been, recently. I'm just pointing out the fact that they rarely work. What works best is when you improve your rotation from the top not the bottom. We had Pedro and got Schill: RING! We had Schill and got Beckett: RING! We had Lester and got Lackey: RING! We had Price and got Sale: RING! We sign scrubs like Masterson and Penny: No Rings!

Thanks! In Bloom I Trust The Rays have seven Top-100 prospects, the most of all 30 organizations. As exciting as that may be for Tampa Bay fans, it's worth noting McKay and Honeywell are the only two of the seven to reach Triple-A.

True, but when we signed him people said all the "nice depth signing" mantras.

I thought about it, but I expect Bloom to make a few more moves now that he has some budget room.

They hardly ever work our for us, and the ones that do are usually remembered as doing better than they actually did. (some not signed in the winter) '19 Andrew Cashner 2-5 6.20 '12 Aaron Cook 4-11 5.05 '17 Doug Fister 5-7 4.71

For some reason, we seem to come up short on minor league deals, especially for SP'ers.

We better hope we don't get draft penalties for the cheating case. One of the few good things about doing poorly in 2019 was finally getting a decent draft slot.