moonslav59

If Gammons would say this, then it would be fact.

You are reading the evidence through the lens of an eye already knowing what it wants to see. Much of this "evidence" can be looked at as supporting opposite viewpoints. If things we so bad that they were "going to fire DD after 2018" had they not won, why is Henry saying he was "going to renew DD's contract?" Are we being asked to think Henry was not being genuine, but Russo was? Clearly, losing had a hand in the decision. One can argue the "toxic environment" helped lead to the losing, but apparently it was there in 2018, too. You can feel certain about this, but I'm not certain at all and don't see how anyone can know, except Henry. Insiders often put spin on statements, and we can all pick and choose which ones to believe or not.

I rest my case. Had we won in 2019, DD would still be here.

You think the "crap" just started in 2019? Henry and others put up with the "crap" when we were winning. Only when we lost, while still spending the most, did the change get made. We don't know jack. Gammons has his opinion, and it's probably a combination of things that led to his end.

He approved the spending based on the idea that DD knew who he was signing and that it would lead to continued winning. It's not unreasonable to expect to win when you are out spending all teams- half by double or triple. I'm sure losing played a role in the firing. We'll likely never know if it was the major reason or not.

Can anyone know for sure, if DD would still be here, if his management style meshed with the organization? Would he still be here having the same style but we made the playoffs and or advanced a round or two in 2019? I'm leaning towards No to 1 and Yes to 2, but it's just conjecture on my part.

If that helps you sleep at night, carry on.

Budget Update (source: cots) Total projected for 2020 (counting arbs): $226.6M Tax Limit: $208M Amount Over Limit: $18.6M Top Contracts in $ millions (AVV cost for luxury tax purposes): 31.0 Price (3 yrs) ~27.5 Betts (last arb) 25.6 Sale (5 yrs + option) 22.0 Martinez (Opt out or 3 yrs) 20.0 Bogaerts (6 yrs + opt) 17.0 Eovaldi (3 yrs) 13.8 Pedroia (2 yrs) ~11.5 Bradley (last arb) ~9.0 Rodriguez (3rd of 4 arbs) 6.5 Perez (1 yr + opt) 4.5 Vazquez (2 yrs + opt) ~4.3 Benintendi (1st of 3 arbs) ~3.3 Workman (last arb) ~3.0 Barnes (2nd of 3 arbs) 2.9 Peraza (2nd of 3 arbs) ~1.5 Hembree (2nd of 3 arbs)

Sometimes it's easier to accept things you don't like when you're winning.

We should fire Bloom for having no rings.

I'm fine with this idea, but I wonder how much trying to stay competitive in 2020 might hamper our ability to be better in 2021 and beyond. It's a delicate balance and there is no easy solution to some of the choices being considered.

I don’t expect much for Price beyond salary relief. But if the Sox are painted into a “trade Mookie” corner, I prefer MLB talent coming back because most top prospects don’t become top Major Leaguers, and it’s tough to think of very many “star for prospects” trades that really did return a ton of MLB talent even in the long run. Bartolo Colon for Sizemore and Phillips might be the exception and not the rule, and even that deal was so long ago, all the “prospects” have retired. If you want to count Archer for Glasnow and Meadows, well what GM made that deal? Bagwell for Anderson Slocumb for VTek & Lowe HRam & Anibal Sanchez for Beckett & Lowell Those are just some Sox related trades that come to mind.

Back to the original point of this post, realistic view of 2020. Lots has changed since the post was started. A thoughtful post. 1. The Sox have been given a “goal” (read as mandate) to get under the cap. This means that some names currently on the roster are gonna get dealt, and when dumping salary, the return in terms of now production isn’t going to be there. The benefit is in signing players or dealing for more expensive players, something they cannot do until well under the cap. Hopefully, the reset will allow us freer budget decisions for 2021 and beyond. 2. They’ve already bid adieu to Porcello and Holt. They’ve replaced them with Perez and Peraza. We all can agree that this is a downgrade. They have done nothing to improve the pen as they have no resources (farm or money) to get an improvement. It may not be a downgrade from Porcello's 2019 numberss, but the IP'd will be hard to match. 3. They’re entering 2020 with far more injury questions than they had going into 2019. Eovaldi ended up converting to relief after elbow surgery and sucked. He’ll go back to the rotation. Price has wrist surgery and saw a velocity drop. He’s also 34. Sale’s velocity was down and he couldn’t make it to August. Eovaldi was pitching at the end of the season. Sale says he fells fine. Price has missed time every year, so I'm not seeing much difference there. 4. The division is gonna be harder. The Yanks kept Gardner and Chapman. They went out and signed Cole. They’re the lead dogs by a mile. The Rays are young and have dealt off Pham and lost Garcia. But Renfroe is no joke and their top 3 of Snell, Glasgow and Chirinos is great as is their pen. If they’re healthy, they’re staying at 2. The Blue Jays have multiple second year talents and they just added Roark and Yamaguchi. They’re still gonna be 4 in the division, but they won’t lose 95 again. And the O’s still suck, so there’s that. 2020 will likely be a down year. Call it a cliff. Call it a rebuild/retool. Call it one last gasp at a last hurrah, assuming we don't deal away vets. I'm looking at setting ourselves up for 2021 and beyond. Anything we do in 2020 is gravy. 5. The AL is gonna be tougher. Rendon, Grandal and Roark are 3 NL names in the top 20 of FAs and they’re heading to the AL. The only top 20er to defect the AL is Didi and he’s easily replaced. Add in that the Angels are probably gonna be better, the Rangers are going for it, the White Sox are going for it and you’ve got a tougher AL. The only AL team that made a downgrade intentionally was the Guardians. Remains to be seen if they blow it up, which is possible. Houston. These 5 reasons makes me wonder why some Sox fans are so adamant about going for it in 2020. The strong likelihood is the Sox are gonna be candidates for the WC2 maybe, but are likely headed for another down year. If you win 85 and miss the POs, it’s just as s***** as winning 70 and missing the POs but without the prime draft position. Hence, a lot of proposals I’ve seen here have been for major league talent, including the one I made (mostly because that’s the direction I foresee Bloom taking). But what if Bloom made a Betts for prospects deal? What if Bloom used the financial savings to keep Price and deal him with money for prospects in 2020. What if he then waited for Eovaldi to have a good stretch and found a taker for him? What do you care if the Sox blow it up and then build a farm if running the same retreads out there misses the POs again? I can see us dealing JBJ and waiting to July, in hopes some player values rise with a healthy start to 2020.

Weber will likely be gone due to his lack of options. Here is how I see our depth chart- not counting any future deals: Red= Out of Options SP Sale ERod Price Eovaldi Perez Johnson Velazquez Weber Houck Hart Reyes McGrath Sept? Mata/Ward/Diaz RP Workman Barnes D Hernandez Taylor Walden Brasier Hembree Osich Feltman Brewer Lakins Poyner Shawaryn Bazardo

Price still has a decent chance at providing quality pitching over the next 3 years. It's not unheard of for great pitchers to dip around age 30 and then go on to rediscover greatness or near greatness. With the lack of good pitching options out there, Price has value- even if most seems potential. He's certainlt not worth near $32M/yr, but we don't need to cut $32M from the budget. Taking back some salary in exchange can help soften the financial strain on the other team while filling an open slot we have (1B, 2B, back up C & OF and P). The player we get back would be someone we'd have to hope has a resurgence, too, but with the savings on the budget, Bloom would have more chances to do his thing.

Could mean a deal is imminent!

True, and some are gone or will see lesser roles in 2020.

Maybe we are keeping him out of respect for this great and long time Sox fan.

He could have several offers he likes on the table, right now, but he is trying to decide on the best one or group of deals, or he is waiting on another team's decision before deciding on plan B and or C, D... We can't really assume much. I'm guessing he makes several trades this winter- some perhaps big ones. Some maybe shocking.

I can't remember who the poster was that was all gah-gah over Weber after one game. But hey, we need someone we can DFA once we acquire a decent player or two.

If it's a "good deal" then it helps the club. While we may not be "better off" after trading Betts, if Bloom has a mandate, then choosing the best deal is all we can hope for. You're right; we don't know, but I'm working on the assumption that we will cut some salary.

You should only take "the best offer to date," if you think it's a good deal, and you don't think you can get more.

I find it funny how he has bashed many of our proposals and his is a landslide coup in the Sox favor.

I'm not thinking or trying to imply otherwise. I just said I think a deal will be made soon.

Betts, JBJ & Eovaldi for -60.3 Myres (1B/OF) 8.2 Margot (OF) 22.2 Mejia © 24.0 Quantrill (SP) 37.8 Trammell (minors OF)