moonslav59

Iggy did not have enough innings in one season to make the list. Here are the overall from 2004 to 2020 (400+ innings). Did you forget Adrian Beltre at 3B? SS 19.8 Reese 18.2 Iggy 14.4 Gonzo 10.9 Drew 6.5 Cora 4.8 Aviles 3.0 Green 2.8 Lowrie 0.0 Bogey -1.9 Scutaro -5.0 OCab (weird) -7.9 Lugo -9.6 Renteria 2B 9.1 Pedey 8.4 Cora 2.7 Holt 1.5 Graffanino -4.1 to -5.0 Chavis, Nunez, Loretta & Bellhorn CF 9.1 Crisp 6.3 JBJ 4.6 Ellsbury 3.0 Betts -3.4 Beni -8.7 DMac -13.3 Damon -18.1 Kalish -27.7 Cameron (weird)

No, I have done many data dives that only compare how each catcher did with the same pitchers. Leon and others consistently got better results with the vast majority of the same pitchers samples. Granted, some pitchers had vastly different sample size numbers with specific pitchers, but almost all of the ones with larger sample sizes favored someone not named Vaz. Pitchers with the most IP with the Sox since 2014: Porcello (964) 4.19 Leon (576) 4.93 Swihart (122) 4.96 Vaz (211) ERod (699) 3.78 Hanigan (50) note: small sample size 3.98 Vaz (456) 4.05 Leon (118) 4.44 Swihart (75) Price (588) 2.96 Leon (204) 4.27 Vaz (360) Sale (520) 2.79 Leon (436) 4.61 Vaz (84) Buch (423) 2.83 VMart (241) 3.01 Leon (155) 3.95 Salty (207) 4.44 Vaz (118) Kelly (359) 3.23 Vaz (98) 4.48 Swihart (74) 4.63 Leon (56) 4.83 Hanigan (91) Barnes (337) 3.81 Vaz (158) 3.83 Leon (99) The ones where Vaz did better have much closer differentials, except for Joe Kelly. He gets blown away with Porcello, Price, Sale and Buch. Their results are staggering! It doesn't seem to matter who catches for ERod & Barnes.

Lugo was actually pretty good defensively, until he got hurt and lost a step. He had plus range that more than made up for the unforced errors. When he lost that step, he became a net minus. The best Sox SSs by UZR/150 by year only since 2004 were (400+ innings): 19.8 Reese '04 14.6 Gonzo '06 9.9 S Drew '13 8.7 Cora '06 4.7 Aviles '12 3.0 Green '09 2.6 Bogey '15 1.7 Scutaro '11 1.3 Bogey '18 0.8 Bogey '19 -0.6 Lugo '07 (Worst: -9.6 Renteria '05) FYI: 2B in our ring years: 7.6 Pedey '13 4.2 Holt '18 4.1 Pedey '07 -6.2 Bellhorn '04 CF 25.3 Crisp '07 8.8 JBJ '18 1.4 Ellsbury '13 -10.0 Damon '04

To me, the full "defensive value" of a catcher is very hard to quantify, especially things like "getting the most out of the staff" or CERA type data, framing pitches, blocking passed balls and WP's and more. Time and time again, Vaz has under performed with pitchers when compared to our other catcher. I like Vaz, but I don't see him as an overall plus on D, when everything not having to do with offense is factored in.

"Truther?" Maybe "Alt-truther" fits better. (LOL)

No, but $5M, in today's depressed market can get us someone like Perez, or add to a $10M pitcher getting us a $15M one. If our budget can be $19.9M over the tax line, then I['m fine with taking a few gambles. However, I think there are better ones than Sanchez out there.

This is one reason I am open to seeing what return we could get. I'm not for pushing to trade him, but maybe someone offers us a nice package in return. Defense up the middle is a big priority. We do not have a great defensive catcher. 2B is an open slot. CF is an open slot.

In total agreement. As a teacher who has worked at 4 different schools in 13 years and several companies outside the educational profession. The principal/boss makes a huge difference.

Agreed. I'm thinking just having Cora back will make watching more enjoyable.

He's ranked 32 out of 53 2Bmen in UZR/150 from 2018-2020 (600+ innings). It's -0.9. His -3 DRS ranks him 34th. He's certainly not a plus on defense, at 2B, but the numbers show he's far from the worst. I can't recall watching him play at 2B, at all.

I totally understand where you are coming from.

Is that OF'er any better than replacement value? (I'm asking, because I really do not know.) If it wasn't for the money, I'd do the trade. The fact that Sanchez could be a 2 or 3 catcher adds enough value to tilt it his way. I would not take money from the pitching budget in hopes Sanchez regains his offense, although I like his chances better than Chavis.

41 (36 GS'd)

I'm not all that optimistic about 2021, either. We'd need a lot to happen to make the playoffs and even more to be a top contender. I do think some other factors could come into play that could boost our chances, beyond what you mentioned here (or instead of them). Devers could be better than even his 2019 season. Bogey could put up a monster year. Dalbec is a bit of a wildcard, who could surprise. There is not much on the pitching staff that jumps out and says, Maybe this guy could..., except maybe DHern & Houck. We have to hope for incredible good luck with health, especially Sale, Eovaldi & ERod and that the vast majority of the players Bloom adds come through for us. I think it will be a fun season to watch.

Yes. Fenway's RF is more important than many other teams, but SS, C and CF, with 2B not far behind are the top 4.

I admitted I did not take a strong position on calling up Devers- one of the few times I sat on the fence. I'm no expert on prospects. I have my opinions, and I loved Devers from the start. I have never had a beef with Sox management's decisions on calling up or not calling up prospects. I did think they rushed Bogey to learn 3B too quickly, but it was an emergency. I don't recall the Devers for Quintana trade suggestion, but I'm not doubting your detective work. There are times, I say, "I'm not sure I'd do this deal, but..." I'm sure I could go back and find 100 times more glowing statements on Devers by me... much more than most posters early on. I was part of the "maybe he'd be better at 1B brigade."

100%

Yes, I see Chavis as being "added value" to a multiplayer deal. The fact that he can "play" 2B, 1B, 3B and maybe OF helps.

Agreed. My "over rated" comment was in regards to the value placed on these two players on the Trade Values website. I also think Chatham is too high. Last year, I felt the vastly over-rated Walden and Chavis. Here is how the value our players: (Remember, the players years of control and salary are a big part of their value numbers.) 58 Verdugo 34 Devers 26 Downs 22 Casas 22 Bogey 21 Vaz 18 Dalbec 13 DHern 12 Mata 12 Duran 9.0 ERod 8.5 Jimenez 7.5 Chavis 6.3 Yorke 6.0 Jordan & Lugo 5.5 Beni 5.3 Houck 4.9 Chatham 4.7 Brasier 4.5 Ward 4.4 Potts 3.8 Song 3.6 Arroyo 3.3 Taylor 3.0 Murphy 2.9 Wong Other notables: 2.6 Groome 2.4 Pivett 0.5 Mazza & Valdez 0.0 Barnes & Brewer and Munoz, Plawecki, Walden & Weber -11 Eovaldi -18 Sale -22 JD

You won't find them, because they are not there. I have always been super high on Devers, and was fine with the time they called him up. My position back then was precisely this: "I trust Sox management to know when Devers is ready for the bigs." I was certain his bat was ML ready but was not sure about his defense and didn't pretend to know more than the Sox brass on that area and his overall readiness. I never, ever said "Don't call him up: he's not ready," nor did I say, "Call him up, right now!" I was thrilled when they called him up- just as I was with JBJ so very long ago. I thought they did not give Bogey enough time at 3B (10 games) to call him up to play out of position, but I felt he was ML ready. I don't usually take strong positions, I know, me, right? No strong positions? on calling the timing of calling up minor leaguers.

Personally, I think Duran (and Chavis) are over rated. I have them as part of several of my suggested trades on the Trade Values site. With a shallow OF system, I'm fine with keeping him, and I still have hopes he breaks through, but I think we will sign a CF'er, this winter- maybe a temporary fix, and see what Duran does next season.

MLBTR... https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/offseason-outlook-boston-red-sox-11.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook Don’t count on an all-in push, but if 2020 was all of the rebuilding and step backwards that ownership was willing to take, the Sox could be one of the winter’s more aggressive teams.

I never downplayed Devers. You must be thinking of somebody else.

While Duran seems to be getting most of the talk about OF help from the minors is justified, since he is much older than Jimenez & Rosario, don't be surprised if both end up better than Duran.

Casas is a ways away, and not a certainty. We'll know a lot more about Devers at 3B and Dalbec, wherever he is at that time. First things first: Chavis is the duplicated value.